Horsehead nebula: visible with an 8" Dob?

[JulianFR]

I was wondering if, in principle, it would be possible for me to view the Horsehead nebula with my 8" Dob? After reading other recent posts here, where members have just about found it with 16" or even larger scopes, I'm assuming the answer is no but just wondered.

In which case I can understand why some people get aperture envy!

Regards and happy Christmss, Julian

[southernman]

I have looked for this under very dark skies with 10" dob and have not seen it.I'm not sure if filters may help but I doubt it. No harm in trying tho.

[astronymonkey]

Some of the american sites claim an 8inch can just about do it but in reality I think 16 is about the minimum and under very dark and clear skies.

ive nevr managed to see it with my 16 inch though !

[John]

I've been looking for it a few times with my 12" dob and an H-Beta filter but with no luck so far. I reckon you need really dark skies to detect this feature. It was recently spotted by a couple of forum members with a 16" scope under very good skies and even then it was very, every hard to detect.

[brantuk]

One of our club members has spotted the outline of the horse head and flame with a C11 and h-beta filter on a full dark night with stable atmospherics but slightly imperfect seeing. It was confirmed with images taken using a minitron, swapped in place for the eyepiece. I've never heard any report about spotting it with an 8" scope though - and I've never yet spotted it myself.

[JulianFR]

Thanks everyone for the replies ... Sounds like it will be a waste of

time looking, but with plenty of other things to look at it's not the end of the world I guess.

[Mike73]

Thanks everyone for the replies ... Sounds like it will be a waste of

time looking, but with plenty of other things to look at it's not the end of the world I guess.

Yep exactly. So many beautiful things to see in the sky with a 8" scope so dont beat yourself up about not seeing the HH.

In 20 years time I may decide to look for these challenging objects but until then I've got a few thousand NGC's I'd like to see first.

[JulianFR]

Yes... I'm looking forward to a couple clear nights over the holiday to enjoy what the heavens can offer me. Fingers crossed!

[John]

Thanks everyone for the replies ... Sounds like it will be a waste of

time looking, but with plenty of other things to look at it's not the end of the world I guess.

Thats a good point. I've been in the hobby many years but there are loads of deep sky objects that I've yet to see that are somewhat easier than the Horse Head Nebula. You might want to consider treating yourself to a UHC or even an O-III filter if you don't already have one. The Veil Nebula, which is well within reach of your scope, is worth the price of the filter alone IMHO and there are a number of other other nebulae that such filters enhance quite significantly.

[JulianFR]

Thanks John ... I must admit I find the subject of filters a bit confusing although I've read quite a few threads here. Guess I'm just a bit slow!

After reading reviews of various types, including OIII and LP filters I bought a Baader Neodymium filter recently though haven't had much chance to use it. (I also have an ND moon filter). Do you think the Neodymium filter will help or should I still get an OIII?

Regards, Julian

[swamp thing]

If your sky is dark enough. Why not?

Deep sky observing is about contrast. The better the contrast the more you will see. Extended objects like the HH nebula are difficult to suggest what aperture is required as the formula isn't so easy. As extended objects have the sane surface brightness through any scope, it's more down to image scale and transparency of your sky.. An 8" should easily provide enough image scale to view the HH it more depends on where you try to view it from.

Get to a really good dark sky site and give it a bash.

[Mark at Beaufort]

I tried for many years to view the HH with my 10" Dob and a H.Beta filter without success. I have now seen it with a 16" Dob but it won't stop me having a go again with my 10" Dob. Check out this image below and cross reference the star patterns. If you can make out these stars you will be able to identify the HH exact location.

I agree with previous comments that an 8" will show so many great objects and using a UHC or Olll will help to improve so many others.

[acey]

I tried for the HH a number of times with an 8" and Lumicon UHC filter at a dark site, without success, but eventually succeeded with a 12" and UHC at the same site. The key thing is sky darkness (my site reaches SQ 21.7). Even if you don't see the HH, there's a lot of nebulosity in that area of the sky, so it's an area worth spending some time on.

[JulianFR]

On the subject of filters, can anyone advise me on how I should use an OIII or Neodymium filter? Specifically, if I have been using one for deep sky observing, can I leave the filter in place while viewing other objects, or should I remove, then replace again for deep sky searching? That is, will the filter affect general observing?

[swamp thing]

Julian

You should only use an O-III filter when observing emission nebulae (or reflection nebulae reflecting emission line stars) it will impede the views on everything else.

[JulianFR]

Thanks Steve. Does that hold for the Neodymium filter as well ... Or can that stay in place for general observing?

[swamp thing]

Don't use one buddy. Don't think it has any deep sky applications.

Nebula filters (UHC, O-III or H-Beta) for nebula, anything else, just go without.

[JulianFR]

Got it! Thanks again. Have a great New Yer.

[narrowbandpaul]

Managed the flame but not the HH with a 12" lightbridge from dark skies unfiltered. I imagine a filter helps.

[Rustysplit]

It was  simonfromsusex and I that bagged the HH through my 14" dob. It was very hard to find, but once found, was much easier to spot again. I think the H beta filter is a necessity for this one. It was totally invisible without it. Study the star shapes in the link that Mark has put up, particulary the 2 very feint stars that point at the top of the neck. If you can see those stars, you know for sure you are in the right place. Get Alnitak out of the field of view of your eyepiece and give it time. We found that by placing the HH in the lower half of the FOV and looking at the top of the FOV, it suddenly became visible with averted vision.

As Steve says, if your sky is nice and dark and the atmosphere good, then why not. Just don't expect to see it as it appears in images, this is a seriously feint smudge Good luck and keep us posted on your results. Now is a really time to have a go with the moon being out of the way for most of the eve.

[bomberbaz]

Right I am going to get on a mission to bag the HH, I love a challenge. Althoigh from the sounds I will deffo need an HB filter first.

re the neodymium filter, try it on jupiter, you may find it improves detail and contrast.

steve

[JulianFR]

Thanks... I had great views of Jupiter on Friday night and the neo filter really do seem to increase the detail. I was using it with my William Optics SPL 6mm and my BST 8mm and 12mm. And although the view in the 6mm was of course larger it was slightly fuzzy and harder to focus ... my new Lacerta micro-focuser really helped. Although smaller, the 8mm's image was pin-sharp ... and I had longer to view it of course before having to nudge the Dob.

I assume, as a beginner, the difference between the views wasn't a quality issue with the WO but rather the seeing quality of the sky with a higher mag eyepiece and that higher mag is not always possible?

[John]

....I assume, as a beginner, the difference between the views wasn't a quality issue with the WO but rather the seeing quality of the sky with a higher mag eyepiece and that higher mag is not always possible?

You are right. The seeing conditions determine the maximum magnification that delivers crisp images on any particular occasion. This can vary during a session too.

Last night I found 225x was showing the crispest and most contrasty views of Jupiter with my 12" dobsonian whereas often I can use 257x or sometimes more. 

I'm sure your eyepieces are fine - it's so easy to blame the equipment when most often it's the seeing conditions !