can i really see what i think i can ?

[breezy]

hello o learned stargawpers.

I'm currently having a weeks r&r in Cornwall, mid way between bude and boscastle.

The last two nights have been totally clear. Stars amazing to view etc.

Now I'm not sure if I'm imagining things but I swear I can make out at least one of Jupiters moons, possibly two with the naked eye.....

Is this just wishful thinking ? And no I wasn't drunk either( well maybe a doom bar or two) or is it just atmospheric distortion ? Or have I developed a squint

[stargazerslivingroom]

I spent the weekend just down the road from you at St Issey and I can confirm the Doom Bar (and Tribute) is rather good in that neck of the woods.

Unfortunately I don't think you saw Jupiter's moons with the naked eye. More likely a couple of feiint stars beyond just lining up where you would expect the moons to be.

Steve

[Nigele2]

Breezy I think Doombar can generate moons and if I really stare hard after 3 or 4 I can occassionally see the ion trails from the star ship Enterprise.  A lovely pint you lucky fellow

But seriously last night I could find 2 or 3 moons of Jupiter using my tube.  However with the naked eye Jupiter just looking like a bright star.  And we did try.

[ronin]

Difficult to say, under a dark sky it is amazing what can be seen. Much more can be seen then is often suspected. Also Jupiters moons can be quite bright points and some distance away from Jupiter. Under even a small scope they do appear different colours.

The arguement for or against could answered by Galileo. There was no real light polution back with him and it took a basic scope for him to see the moons. So on that basis it seems that eyes alone are inadaquate.

There is the arguement that until he got the scope he did not link the hard to see (indistinct) small dots around Jupiter as being moons, also he would have needed excellent eyesight to have seen them as well. The scope may just have helped to make the identification.

So the moons may just have been visible and knowing they were there and are moons means recognition is more possible.

[breezy]

Perhaps wishful thinking then, not used to such dark skies...

Hmmm didn't bring scope this time but do have bins so will venture forth again tonight to see what I can spy in the heavens, after planning some observing in the pub cough cough

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[acey]

The four Galilean moons of Jupiter have magnitudes of around 5 and a half, hence should be visible to the naked eye if the sky is dark enough - but that's without taking into account the glare of Jupiter itself, which drowns them out. When I was a boy, my father claimed to see the moons with naked eye, and I have always been very sceptical of that, but I have heard of people seeing moons by placing Jupiter behind an obstruction (e.g. roof edge), and that strikes me as credible if the moons are at a sufficient distance from the planet. Certainly makes an interesting challenge.

[Schorhr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gan_De

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1981ChA%26A...5..242X&db_key=AST&data_type=HTML&format=&high=4396a6768904068

[Wyvern]

Just been playing with Stellarium, and this shows Delta Geminorum ( Wasat) at Mv 3.5 less than 1/2 degree from Jupiter two nights ago.  Running the time forwards, the closest approach looks to be Tuesday 10th Dec. 

Suspect this may have been a "pretend" moon you've seen Breezy.  

Continue enjoying the RnR.

Les

[Knight of Clear Skies]

The four Galilean moons of Jupiter have magnitudes of around 5 and a half, hence should be visible to the naked eye if the sky is dark enough - but that's without taking into account the glare of Jupiter itself, which drowns them out. When I was a boy, my father claimed to see the moons with naked eye, and I have always been very sceptical of that, but I have heard of people seeing moons by placing Jupiter behind an obstruction (e.g. roof edge), and that strikes me as credible if the moons are at a sufficient distance from the planet. Certainly makes an interesting challenge.

Interesting thanks, I'd never thought that seeing the Galilean moons with the naked eye might be possible. If anyone wants to try this, the moons will be at their brightest on 5th Jan 2014 when Jupiter is next at opposition. I suspect the seeing would need to be very good, as any haze will spread out the light from Jupiter, making it impossible to block-out.

[breezy]

Interesting replies people, thanks for taking the time.

The plan tonight is to go for a peek around half ten, and again around half six tomz morning . decided to skip the pub as some bright spark has purchased a polypin of doom and its residing in the spare room on the window sill, won't imbibe too much as keen to work out whether there is any credibility, tho the idea that its just a faint star in the right place seems quite valid

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[RT65CB-SWL]

My work colleague and I were looking at Jupiter one evening last week and he says he could see one of the 'gallilean' moons. We were both standing in an office car park at LHR where we work, so it is possible I suppose. I could not see it though.

[bingevader]

I like Doom Bar too!

It travels well across the (Bristol) Channel!

Doesn't help me see the Moons of Jupiter any easier though!  But then I am fairly badly short-sighted. 

Cheers

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Since this seems to have turned into a thread about Cornish beer, a keg of Tribute we bought direct from the St. Austell Brewery was particularly nice. Their tour was also quite interesting.

[Ally8446]

I can confirm that what you thought was a Galilean moon was in fact the star Wasat which is part of Gemini. I thought exactly the same when I looked last night so I've done a little homework. Definitely Wasat.

[breezy]

Getting back to my original post about Jupiter and its moons, the damn clouds have scuppered my plans for tonight.... However I'm in Cornwall till Saturday so fingers crossed I will get another chance to view the aforementioned planet.

Thanks again for the replies guys, and tribute is a nice drop too

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[acey]

I had a look at Jupiter last night and could clearly see the star (delta Geminorum, or Wasat) just to the right (i.e south-west) of it. The finder showed another fainter star on the other side, further from the planet, which I couldn't see naked eye. Delta Gem has magnitude 3.5 and Jupiter was closest to it (6 arcmin) in early October but is now gradually moving away from it. All suspected sightings of a Galilean moon during the last few months can safely be put down to that. Still a very nice thing to see, though.

The star's Arabic name Wasat (also Wesat or Al Wasat) means "middle" (i.e. of the constellation). Its name in Chinese astronomy was Ta Tsun, "the great wine jar". It's actually a double star (the mag 8 companion is described as "purple").

The star lies on the ecliptic, which is why it can be occulted by planets such as Jupiter. When Clyde Tombaugh was looking for a new planet he concentrated on the ecliptic and in 1930 he found Pluto half a degree east of delta Gem. (Pluto's orbit actually takes it quite far from the ecliptic, so Tombaugh was lucky).

[breezy]

Nice info acey, much appreciated

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[breezy]

Well the clouds put paid to any other attempts to view Jupiter. And I like my pit toouch to stay up all night just in case.

Thanks again for the replies guys. Very informative

[Paul73]

Difficult to say, under a dark sky it is amazing what can be seen. Much more can be seen then is often suspected. Also Jupiters moons can be quite bright points and some distance away from Jupiter. Under even a small scope they do appear different colours.

The arguement for or against could answered by Galileo. There was no real light polution back with him and it took a basic scope for him to see the moons. So on that basis it seems that eyes alone are inadaquate.

There is the arguement that until he got the scope he did not link the hard to see (indistinct) small dots around Jupiter as being moons, also he would have needed excellent eyesight to have seen them as well. The scope may just have helped to make the identification.

So the moons may just have been visible and knowing they were there and are moons means recognition is more possible.

Lets not discard the possibility of unaided viewing of the moons on the grounds of Galelio needing a telescope.

He would have been in his mid 40's when he observed the moons. And, given that as an academic without modern lights, his eyes would have taken a fair battering so 20:20 vision is unlikely.

Paul

[Helicon]

I saw the same thing last Friday night whilst out spotting Geminds ,took me a few minutes to realize it was actually a star and not one of the moons ! a quick check on Stellarium confirmed it was indeed Wasat