Baffled by Barlows! Please help a newbie

[Ness]

I’m hoping someone or many of you can help me! I’m sure this shouldn’t be a difficult concept, but after days of reading I feel no closer to making a decision or really understanding what I need. What started out as a simple “what Barlow should I buy” has become “should I buy a Barlow, Teleconverter or Powermate? – And which one!”

I have a Skywatcher ED80 with the standard 26mm EP and I’ve recently purchased 16mm & 24mm 68° Maxvision EP’s which are great.  In the long term I will invest in some higher mag EP’s but in the meantime I hope a Barlow (or alternative) would enable to make the most of the EP’s I already have.

What should I buy to maximise planetary (especially Jupiter and Saturn) views and moon visual and AP on this scope?!

Thanks for taking the time to reply

[jambouk]

What is the focal length of your scope? What magnifications will those eye pieces give you? They say a powermate will give you better results than a standard barlow, giving a clearer, brighter image across the whole field of view.

James

[rowan46]

I see you bought a maxvision. I  got one of these at the same site it's better than any barlow I tried which admittedly  is not many. I am told that it is actually a telextender not a barlow  I have never taken it apart to find out as it works very well 

http://www.optical-systems.com/bresser-sabarlow-lens-317mm125-p-23505.html

[rowan46]

sorry still haven't answered your question if you need to extend eye relief on an eyepiece get a barlow if its just for magnification I would get a telextender or powermate if you can afford it they give a cleaner view than any of the barlows I have tried

[ronin]

Powermates are good but also costly, unless the aim is to have a Powermate then you could buy a couple of reasonable eyepieces.

Barlows come in a variety of qualities and therein lies the problem. People used to get the TAL 2x barlows, but they are simply unavailable now and people are not selling them.

One of the Celestron ones gets good comments, just I have no idea which it is. Have heard that the Astro Tech ones are good. My problem is that I do not use a barlow, prefer an individual eyepiece.

Part of saying anything is that at present all your eyepieces seem long and therefore you could get away with a 3x barlow at present. Say this as the 3x powermates are I think (please check) less then the 2x powermates.

For planetary you need to be down at the sub 8mm focal length and the scope should take a 5mm easily, a barlowed 8mm for 4mm would also be OK on the scope.

AP is usually prime focus so no eyepiece.

I would be tempted to just get a 5mm BST for planets.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

That Bresser SA Barlow mentioned above is the same piece of kit as my Meade TeleXtenders. Really good, and quite comparable to my PowerMates. These are technically tele-centric lenses, not Barlows. Much better quality, and very good for planetary imaging as well.

[Ness]

Wow! Thanks for such fast replies!

What is the focal length of your scope? What magnifications will those eye pieces give you? They say a powermate will give you better results than a standard barlow, giving a clearer, brighter image across the whole field of view.

James

James - its a 600mm focal length, f/7.5 scope. The magnifaction on the highest mag EP I have (16mm) is 37.5 so I should be able to push it a lot more. Long term, the answer is definitely more EP's but I had thought a "quick and easy" solution was getting a 2x Barlow for now to get me to 8mm equivalent. Thanks for explaining some of the advantages of a powermte over a barlow. I have read good things, but have also read that they are heavy and as I only have a small scope (for now) I wonder if they will be too heavy?

sorry still haven't answered your question if you need to extend eye relief on an eyepiece get a barlow if its just for magnification I would get a telextender or powermate if you can afford it they give a cleaner view than any of the barlows I have tried

No worries Rowan, all advice and extra questions helps me get the info I'm looking for! I'm happy with the eye relief, I just want to try and increase the magnification. I bought the scope to do deep sky imaging but have been distracted with Jupiter! I can't justify a second scope yet, and want to learn the ropes and make the most of what I have first. Can you please explain the difference between a barlow, powermate and telextender? I understand that a powermate doesn't affect ER where as a Barlow increasees it and from your and James' comment it sounds like powermates and telextenders have better optics, or at least less of a detrimental effect on the EP and scope. Is that about right? and am I missing anything?

[jambouk]

A 2x 1.25" powermate isn't too weighty; a 2" one will be.

The other thing people say is a Tal 2x Barlow is the next best thing if you can't afford the weight or cost of the Powermate.

Where in the world are you? I have a Tal 2x Barlow I could lend you if you wanted. I've also got a 2x 1.25" Powermate, which I guess I could also lend you.

James

[rowan46]

Wow! Thanks for such fast replies!

James - its a 600mm focal length, f/7.5 scope. The magnifaction on the highest mag EP I have (16mm) is 37.5 so I should be able to push it a lot more. Long term, the answer is definitely more EP's but I had thought a "quick and easy" solution was getting a 2x Barlow for now to get me to 8mm equivalent. Thanks for explaining some of the advantages of a powermte over a barlow. I have read good things, but have also read that they are heavy and as I only have a small scope (for now) I wonder if they will be too heavy?

No worries Rowan, all advice and extra questions helps me get the info I'm looking for! I'm happy with the eye relief, I just want to try and increase the magnification. I bought the scope to do deep sky imaging but have been distracted with Jupiter! I can't justify a second scope yet, and want to learn the ropes and make the most of what I have first. Can you please explain the difference between a barlow, powermate and telextender? I understand that a powermate doesn't affect ER where as a Barlow increasees it and from your and James' comment it sounds like powermates and telextenders have better optics, or at least less of a detrimental effect on the EP and scope. Is that about right? and am I missing anything?

I'll be honest and admit that I have never spent as much on a barlow as I did the telextender  so i wouldn't know if a barlow for the same price is as good but the bresser is better than any of the cheaper barlows i have tried and the consensus from what I have read seems to be that telecentric especially powermates are better but powermates are much more expensive. the bresser I have is marginally weightier than a barlow but not hugely so I don't know about the 2" format though

[Ness]

Powermates are good but also costly, unless the aim is to have a Powermate then you could buy a couple of reasonable eyepieces.

Barlows come in a variety of qualities and therein lies the problem. People used to get the TAL 2x barlows, but they are simply unavailable now and people are not selling them.

One of the Celestron ones gets good comments, just I have no idea which it is. Have heard that the Astro Tech ones are good. My problem is that I do not use a barlow, prefer an individual eyepiece.

Part of saying anything is that at present all your eyepieces seem long and therefore you could get away with a 3x barlow at present. Say this as the 3x powermates are I think (please check) less then the 2x powermates.

For planetary you need to be down at the sub 8mm focal length and the scope should take a 5mm easily, a barlowed 8mm for 4mm would also be OK on the scope.

AP is usually prime focus so no eyepiece.

I would be tempted to just get a 5mm BST for planets.

Thanks Ronin, some good advice there! I had hoped all Barlow's were made equal but it didn't take me long to find that was not the case. It was reading various reviews on Barlows that powermates etc came into the mix. My current EP's are long! I wanted higher mag ones as well but wasn't sure which to get so wanted to investigate before spending. By the sounds of it, I may be better to get a 5mm and 10mm and not worry about a barlow etc. Am I wrong in thinking that I can use a barlow with my DSLR for AP? I know that you wouldn't normally use an eyepiece but I thought I could somehow add the barlow in to the mix with scope, extender and T-ring?

That Bresser SA Barlow mentioned above is the same piece of kit as my Meade TeleXtenders. Really good, and quite comparable to my PowerMates. These are technically tele-centric lenses, not Barlows. Much better quality, and very good for planetary imaging as well.

Cheers Michael. I looking at the telextender as we speak! Is it only the way they work with focusing light etc that makes them different to Powermates? To use if for imaging, does it replace the extension tube I'm currently using and fit to my DSLR with a T-ring? I'm still trying to work out what the correct set up is! Thank you :-)

[Ness]

A 2x 1.25" powermate isn't too weighty; a 2" one will be.

The other thing people say is a Tal 2x Barlow is the next best thing if you can't afford the weight or cost of the Powermate.

Where in the world are you? I have a Tal 2x Barlow I could lend you if you wanted. I've also got a 2x 1.25" Powermate, which I guess I could also lend you.

James

I live in Burton so not too far from you by the looks of things. To be able to borrow them or have you show me the ropes would be great.

I'll be honest and admit that I have never spent as much on a barlow as I did the telextender  so i wouldn't know if a barlow for the same price is as good but the bresser is better than any of the cheaper barlows i have tried and the consensus from what I have read seems to be that telecentric especially powermates are better but powermates are much more expensive. the bresser I have is marginally weightier than a barlow but not hugely so I don't know about the 2" format though

Thanks. I assume I can use either the 2" or 1.25" as I have the adapter that allows me to use both size EP's?

It looks like my search is narrowing! Thanks for all your help. I've being going round in circles for days on this and you've all helped me in a matter of hours!

[faulksy]

i have the meade 5000 telextender, and it is amazing to use, all it does is add power, eyerelief is still the same, great piece of kit

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

PowerMates are essentially the same as TeleXtenders. They are just made by different companies. They are different from Barlows.

[Rustysplit]

I use an Orion shorty Plus, the same as the old Celestron Ultima. Apo triplet design, made in Japan. They are now discontinued but turn up 2nd hand for around £50. I find it to be excellent. I certainly would not change mine to upgrade to a powermate. I could see no visual difference between the performance when tested side by side, except the eye relief.

[Space Beagle]

Ness,

You can get Tal barlows from this site over in the USA: http://www.talteleoptics.com/index.html

I have recently bought some Tal Plossl eyepieces from them and the service was excellent! The main man there is called Roman and is a pleasure to deal with!

I have not had to stump up any import taxes, yet, so that has kept the cost down!

The Tal barlows are very good, possibly not the absolute best, but very good for the cost!

Doc

[Charic]

(Space Beagle says..........You can get Tal barlows from this site over in the USA: http://www.talteleop....com/index.html)  cheers for that, NOT! Now Ive got to make more decisions again? Ive been looking for a while for a decent Barlow,  and  just  recently decided i`ll leave it and buy a full set BSTs, due to their prices. Now I have the 8,18,25 and only need 5,12,15 to complete the set. Now do  I spend  up to 147 and buy the primary lenses or just buy a TALx2 and the 12mm.  with the TAL I`d effectivly have 4,6,8,9,12,12.5,18 & 25mm. saving 98 by not getting the 5 & 15mm? decisions decisions! This hobby drives you mad.....

[jambouk]

Ness, burton isn't far. We've got an east midlands group of stargazers, and a few come from that area. Private message me and we can sort out lending you something to play with, else come over sometime and have a go in my back garden, or to one of our east midlands observing events.

James

[John]

I've owned a couple of the TAL barlows and, for what they used to cost new (£30-ish) they were optically pretty decent. I don't feel they were so good that they were worth importing from the USA though. I used one of the Revelation 2.5x barlows recently which, costs the same as the TAL used to, and I thought that worked very well - it reminded me in many ways of the Celestron Ultima barlow, which I used to have and that was very nice. Another nice, low cost, barlow that I used a lot recently was the Baader Q-Turret 2.25x which was optically really excellent - they cost around £45. So there are still some very worthy lower cost barlows around 

[Space Beagle]

Charic,

Just wait until someone lets you look through a TeleVue, any TeleVue......

I managed to buy my Tal Barlows over here a few years ago, from FLO as I recall, but being 'financially' realistic John is probably right when he advises a Revelation barlow, if you go that route! I did used to have all the BSTs and they all worked very well, even in my f5 200p, so, you won't go far wrong with them tbh!

I 'really' wanted to get a few more Tal Super Plossls, so, 'had' to buy them from Talteleoptics.. . I have not been out since due to clouds and rain that came in the box! I was very impressed with the service from Talteleoptics mind you, very helpful and no import fees, well, as yet!

Ness,

Great offer from Jambouk above, that's probably the best way to try some things out and meet a few good people too!!

Doc

[nodavinci]

Oh man!....Have I got a lot to learn! Am trying to pick up themes on equipment before I buy my first scope. The range of eyepieces discussed has knocked me OUT!!

[Ness]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. Sorry for a slow response, I've been away for a few days.

Nodavinci - Don't worry, you're not alone! When I first started reading everything before getting my scope I had to have google open on the next tab to work out what object people were even talking about. It does come together and in my experience everyone on SGL has been ever so helpful with suggestions and advice. If you're ever not sure, ask :-) I would suggest too, if you have any desire to do astrophotography (now or in the future) that you read "Every Photon Counts" before buying anything else. It breaks everything down very clearly and for £20 will stop you making any costly mistakes. You can find it here http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html Enjoy!

[Charic]

Ness........I've just secured a second hand Revelation Astro 2.5. It looks the business, absolutely mint condition, but alas, the clouds are here. I`ll get to test it some night soon?

[Ness]

Ness........I've just secured a second hand Revelation Astro 2.5. It looks the business, absolutely mint condition, but alas, the clouds are here. I`ll get to test it some night soon?

Hey Charic, It's been ages since I've had a few minutes to myself to get back on SGL, so I've only just seen your comment. That certainly is a nice piece of kit you've found! Have you had any luck with the weather? It's been super cloudy here. I'd love to hear how you found it.

[Spookylight]

I have the 3x version of the meade telextender.

Here is a 5x version going for a song and where I bought mine from. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-25-5x-Meade-Series-5000-TeleXtender-Ultra-Wide-Boxed-/161181589002?

[Charic]

Hey Charic, It's been ages since I've had a few minutes to myself to get back on SGL, so I've only just seen your comment. That certainly is a nice piece of kit you've found! Have you had any luck with the weather? It's been super cloudy here. I'd love to hear how you found it.

Hi Ness.The weather or seeing has let me down since the arrival of the Barlow. Twice I've tried to spy on Jupiter, but I'm getting a blurred image. I`m hoping that its because the conditions are poor, and that the telescope has not had sufficient cooling time, and just not over powered for the telescope on 8mm?  but when I spied on the Moon, Wow! Wow! Wow! at 375x power I was in the valleys of the Mountains between the light and dark. it was a phenomenal sight, and  in focus. If I find that the 2.5x never gives me the focus on planets, then I'll drop down to a 2x Barlow, but need to test some more yet, once conditions have improved. The UK weather at present will set some new records, i'm sure. I`ve also got a 32mm Panaview I'm dying to test.