Baader Hyperion with fast scopes - compatibility?

[Roger Fairhurst]

Whilst in the UK recently I visited a reputable astronomy retailer with several purchases in mind.

The advice I received seemed extremely reliable and competent and I decided as a result not to buy the items I had panned to.

I did however buy a Baader Hyperion 8mm eyepiece which was highly recommended by the shop manager who was advising me.

My scope is a SW 150/750 Explorer which at f5 is probably rated as "fast".

I have subsequently read reports on SGL that these Baader Hyperion EPs are not really suitable for fast scopes - or at least that other types are much more suitable. I have not yet had an opportunity to test the Baader EP properly and am beginning to wonder if I haven't made a big mistake in buying it. As a pensioner I don't have unlimited financial resources and this is the most expensive EP I've bought to date. It certainly "looks the business" and is a beautiful bit of kit but if not really suitable then it is an expensive exhibit for the wall unit!

The guy advising was aware of the scope I owned but did not mention any "side effects" when used with a fast scope. In all other respects his advice was well founded and he clearly had a very deep understanding of the subject matter.

What do others think?

Has anybody experience of these EPs with an f5 scope?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Not sure what the next step is seeing as how I probably won't get an opportunity to really test it before I go on my hols at the end of this month.

Kind regards

Roger

[IanC11]

I've got a 200p which is another F5 scope and have NO problems with the Hyperions, I've got virtually the full set and the only one I would advise against is the 3.5mm, the 8mm is probably the one I get the most use from. I know a lot of people on here advise against Hyperions and fast scopes and they recommend the Celestron x-cel series. Following this advice I purchased a 5mm x-cel and have regretted it ever since, PERSONALLY I don't think it comes even close to the 5mm Hyperion, but that is only my opinion, everybody's eyes react differently. I wouldn't worry about your purchase until you've had a chance to give it a good workout at a dark site.

[Moonshane]

There's no doubt that they are good eyepieces and many people love them. I would not personally buy them for use in a fast scope but they will certainly be fine for the majority of the field and it's only the edges that will show astigmatism. I'd not worry too much and just enjoy the views which will be a substantial step up from the standard supplied eyepieces.

[John]

I've used most of the Hyperions. They are nicely made eyepieces and work very well with slower scopes, ie: F/7 and slower but do show astigmatism in the outer parts of the field of view which becomes quite noticeable when the focal ratio gets faster than F/6 and is, to my eyes anyway, rather distracting at F/5.

While the central area of the field of view does remain sharp as Shane says, you can get that with a decent plossl which is less expensive than the Hyperions.

[Eastridge]

Hi, we have a 10mm Hyperion + fine tuning rings to take it as low as 7mm and use it in a fast manual f4.7 Dob. We were aware that it would have edge astigmatism - my hubby can see this but it doesn't bother him & I cannot really make it out - but bought it anyway because it's use is for planets which we view in the middle of the field so look fine. We could have gone for a cheaper EP with a narrower field of view but 1. the field of view allows us not to 'loose' the planet if we look away for a moment or two and easily then nudge it back to centre. 2. With the rings we got 4 different focal lengths so the cost per focal length was cheaper than buying a number of EP's. 3. It has good eye relief which we need as I wear glasses and most of the 'cheaper' EP's people recommended instead would be unusable / uncomfortable for me. I hope the shops advice will have been in response to what you said you wanted the EP to do for you, your circumstances etc. rather than generic views on what is a 'good' EP.

[Luke]

We used most of the Hyperions with an F5, 12 inch dob. I was fine with them, they blew the stock ones out of the water, and I hadn't noticed the blur towards the edge much until my other half said she found it distracting and pointed it out.

I then started to find it a bit distracting. It was fairly strong towards the edge with the lower power ones. I think it will be down to personal preference. It didn't stop me having some very memorable views and if I still had them I'd still be rushing to get the F5 dob out when it's clear.

[Roger Fairhurst]

Many thanks for the responses, as usual the SGL rushes to the rescue of newbies like me with advice and assistance when needed!

I think I understand now that my Baader might not be the perfect EP for my scope but it is still a massive move up from the stock EPs - and it darned well ought to be seeing as how it cost me more than 1/3 of the price of the entire scope, mount, tripod and 2 EPs!

However I can't help feeling I might have made a better choice. TeleVue Nagler EPs were available at the shop but frankly outside my price range and I don't even know if a TV would have been better.

I will certainly wait to see how it performs when I get the chance to get out with the scope, probably in September.

At the end of the day it comes down to 2 things I guess -

1. Could I have done better for the money (GBP 95)

2. Am I happy with the performance? - which quite literally remains to be seen.

Once again, many thanks for the replies and guidance.

Kind regards

Roger

[John]

The Naglers would have been sharp right across the field of view - thats what Tele Vue does best

Their field of view is 82 degrees v's the Hyperions 68 degrees but the Hyperion has more eye relief can seem a little more comfortable to view though.

Big price difference though, as you saw, so it's down to individual choice as to whether the added cost is worth it.

I'm sure you will enjoy the Hyperions though - let us know what you think of them in your scope.

Star Parties are a great way to try some other equipment designs out to see whether you like them or not. They can turn out expensive though if you develop a taste for ultra wide fields of view that are sharp right across even in a fast scope

[RikM]

I have used the 3.5mm, 13mm and 17mm Hyperions with the Explorer 150P and Skyliner 250PX. I find the 3.5mm is fairly unusable most of the time. The 13 and 17 were okay but not outstanding. Definitely better than the supplied eyepieces and very comfortable to use. You can get better views for considerably less money but not without some sacrifice in viewing comfort. Good quality Plossl or Orthoscopic eyepieces will give much clearer, sharper and more contrasty view for about half to two thirds the price of the Hyperion but they will show a small field of view and you will have to get your eye much closer to the eyelens. If you wear glasses when observing, this is likely to be a big problem.

[Carbon Brush]

Another vote for the Hyperions.

I have used a 3.5mm in my SW200P. Viewing Mars one particular night is memorable. The clouds unexpectedly cleared with good seeing and the 'wrong' scope, 200P, was on the mount. Very pleasing views of Mars.

The Hyperion's long eye relief with short EP FL is one reason why I bought them.

[umadog]

I briefly owned a 13 mm Hyperion for use with an f/5 12". I returned it the next day. The views were worse than the cheap 3-element eyepieces that came with the scope. Masses of astigmatism on the field edges. I mean really terrible in at least the outer third of the field. At f/5 in these eyepieces the astigmatism there. Whether it bothers you or not is a different question.

However, you can do much better for the same money and you don't need to buy Televue. There are other eyepieces out there that provide views which give Televue a run for their money. I opted for a 14 mm Explore Scientific 82 degree instead of the Hyperion 13 mm. Wider field of view, cheaper (at least when I bought it was), and very little astigmatism. I know some people in the UK have bought ES eyepieces from the US and saved money despite import costs. Hyperions appear to be fine at f/7 but at f/5... Not so much. Why not find out about the return policy before you use it? It's hardly worth the gamble since you can buy virtually non-astigmatic eyepieces for the same money.

[cs1cjc]

My experience is only of a 17mm Hyperion which I mainly used tuned down to 15.3mm with an empty 2" filter ring (and you cannot do that with many eyepieces!). In my F/4.5 and F/4.6 newtonians, operating at with a coma corrector at about F/5, I thought it provided a very nice image, though the field stop was not sharp. I no longer have it only because of ergonomics. I found it bulky and heavy, with the focus point too far from my other eyepieces, if anything too much eye relief and the eye cup was awkward to fold and unfold. There are a number of independent reviews, for example here:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/blog/vixen-lvw-vs-baader-hyperion-review.html

http://www.svenwienstein.de/HTML/hyperion_-_english_version.html (Stratus here will be a relabelled Vixen, I think)

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Chinese_Refractor/message/23203

http://www.astro-okulare.de/baader/bahyp.htm (follow the links to the the test result, Zum Testergebnis, for each eyepiece)

[Luke]

At the end of the day it comes down to 2 things I guess -

1. Could I have done better for the money (GBP 95)

A second-hand 8mm Tele Vue Radian, at about £100, is a step up on a Hyperion in my F5 dob. No surprise I guess as a new one is about £190, but they are quite a good buy second hand as they seem to sell for a bit less than other TV EP's.

[John]

A second-hand 8mm Tele Vue Radian, at about £100, is a step up on a Hyperion in my F5 dob. No surprise I guess as a new one is about £190, but they are quite a good buy second hand as they seem to sell for a bit less than other TV EP's.

+1 for the Radians. Designed to work well in scopes down to F/4 plus comfortable eye relief and a decent price on the used market.

[umadog]

Yeah, definitely Radians are great eyepieces. I use them for high power stuff and the 10 mm is one of my most commonly used eyepieces. Televue are phasing them out now that the Delos is here, so you'd have to buy second hand if you wanted one.

[Swedeman2013]

I too am looking for an upgrade e.p in the next few weeks but get more confused by the day with so many varying opinions when it comes to dobs. I'm thinking about a Televue plossl 32mm but I really want to be blown away, and wonder if I'm not further ahead to keep saving and really get rewarded!?

[Moonshane]

personally I'd say that a 32mm TV Plossl whilst a great eyepiece would provide too large an exit pupil in your scope. if you can find a used one (or save longer for a new one) a 24mm Panoptic would provide the same field and more of a wow factor in my view.

[Rockrae78]

I use the BH eyepieces in my SLT 130 (which is an f/5 fast scope) and haven't experienced any problems at all. I started with the 24mm one, and have built up my collection from there.

To be honest, I think from the mixed reviews above, it must come down to a personal choice. Nobody's eyes are exactly the same, nor are their viewing habits! I would give it a go (more than once if you don't have perfect conditions) and see if YOU are happy with the EP.

If not, you can always sell it on (if a return is out of the question seen as you don't live in the UK). I've seen second hand ones for sale for not much less than brand new (providing they still have all dust caps/cases/boxes etc).

Good luck.

[cotterless45]

I love to use the Hyperions even sub f5. Above that and they are more than useful, especially when newbies have a look through the large ep.

Nick.