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difficulty at viewing DSO's


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Hi SGL

i have been spending a lot of time trying to view DSO's but unsuccessfully. To try and locate these objects i have been using stellarium to get the coordinates of them. The book turn left at orion has been recommended to me. I was wondering if you think i should get the book or if there is anything better than it that i could buy. My telescope is a skywatcher skyliner 150p.

kind regards

ashley

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First question is which DSO's?

Nebula are very likely a waste of time until about a months time when we start to get something resembling darkness.

Clusters will depend on which ones, Pleiades are easy, Hercules cluster, M13, a bit more troublesome.

Most planerary nebula will be too faint and too small so fall into the Nebula catagory.

Many clusters come up easier in binoculars, not big as in the scope but easier to locate as they have a wider view. Once found you can then point a scope at them.

Try M13 and also the double cluster.

Not sure that the coordinates, RA and Dec I presume, will help unless you have a good understanding of what they are and how they operate, since the object will have an RA-Dec but this is time dependant and not the same as up/down left/right and unmoving.

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First, check the magnitude of the faint stars you can see - that will give you an idea whether you actually have a chance to see DSO's when comparing their magnitude.

If your light pollution is bad like mine, you'll have only a few clear winter nights when you can see smth like M81/M82.

Over all - it will always be a fuzzy blop!

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It all becomes easier with a darker sky. M13 is high at the moment, not too difficult to find in the keystone, and it's one of the brighter DSOs. I was viewing and imaging this a couple of nights ago and it was fairly easy to see, even in my finder scope, at about 22:30. I later had a look at the ring nebula later (also fairly easy to find in Lyra) and this was also very obvious. It has a high surface brightness which makes it much easier than other planetary nebulae.

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As said thinks get a little easier when it gets a bit darker - even by august it's much better. Not sure which you've seen already - but a lot will be just a grey smudge at best and look nothing like photos you see. The best to see and easiest to locate include the the following messier objects - ring nebulae m57, m27, m13, m31the andromeda galaxy and m42 the orion nebula later in the autumn. All are fine sights. A lot of the open cluster around perseus and cassiopeia are also very nice. You have ;lots of stuff to look forward to !

andrew

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:huh:Hi Guys,

Thanks for your answers, but forgot to mention Im only 11!!

Last night, with the aid of stellurium, I tried in vain to see M13, but just couldn't. Could be I dont know what stars to use as a guide to find? I tried to get my dad to help, but even with his help, even though we were sure we were looking in the right part of the sky, just couldnt locate it.

Sadly, went off to bed at 11.40 disappointed :huh:

I have the standard lenses with my scope, I also have a tetrad and a 32mm ultima LX eyepiece.

Any guidance you guys could give would be greatly appreciated as I am sure it must be within my grasp to see a DSO?

Hoping for a better night tonight!!!

thanks

Ash

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Ah, Ash mate! Sorry about that! I find it great that you have taken an interest in astronomy. I pretty much started out at your age with a crappy plastic scope... Couldn't see a thing!!

Right, which DSO can you see right now... Definitely forget about all those nebula's. you won't see them!!! Apart from the big one in Orion later this year.

I would go for the globular clusters. Tonight at 22:30:

M13 in Hercules:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_13

M92 in Hercules:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_92

M3 close to the bright star Arcturus:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_3

M5 in the head of hydra (other side of Arcturus)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_5

M10 & M12 in opiuchus

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_10

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_12

Wild duck cluster M11 beneath the bottom of Aquila the Eagle

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_11

In Stellarium you need to install Stellarium Oculars

http://www.stellarium.org/wiki/index.php/Oculars_plugin

Here's a video on how to do that:

Delete all the example scope stuff in the oculars settings and put only your scope settings in and your eyepieces. Write here if you got trouble with that!!

Hope that gets you going!!!

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Hope it's clear for you to have another try soon. This map shows the general area for M13 and the next is a telrad

Messier 13 – M13 - Great Hercules Globular Cluster | Free Star Charts

Messier Telrad Finder Charts

If you or your Dad have a pair of binoculars, they are very useful for giving a wide view of the area and then you can locate the exact area with the telescope. A lot of the bright DSO are visible in binoculars. The 32mm eyepiece you have is an ideal finder lens.

andrew

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I suspect you are coming up against something that is often forgotten or not considered.

Your eyes see in effect 180 degrees, so you point your head in the right area and a quick search usually locates things.

With binoculars you again point the eyes at the object then move the bincoulars into the line of sight. Therefore with you already lined up on the object and with the fairly wide view of binoculars there is little problem.

With a scope all that changes.

The scope has to point fairly accurately at the object, if you are lucky you will have a 1 degree view, 5 to 8 times less then binoculars. You do not get the chance to look through and scan the heavens easily, Pointing in the general direction will not be enough. Throw the 32mm and aim the scope with as much accuracy as possible.

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Age is not a factor,experience isnt even much of a factor. You seem to be using the right resources. You have a great scope. At this time of year the main issue is really that it doesnt get very dark.............even by 11pm. Aug-Sept, the sky starts to darken earlier and you will do better. Take this time just to scan the skies with your scope and see what you find. At the same time read TLAO for Aug/Sept and get familiar with the skies at that time of year,so when that time comes around you will be better armed to find your way around.

Stick with it and dont lose heart. Summer is a difficult time for anyone.

This is a great astronomy app:

http://www.southerns...ucts/skysafari/

I have the cheapest one on my android smartphone.

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thanks for all your advice, i will take it on board, but one more thing. can you recommend any good planetarium apps on the iPad?

In the beginning download any free one when you search in the App Store for planetarium.

Later, you might be interested in getting a paid version with more stars in them. I can't think of the name of the one I use. Will have a look later.

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You should certainly be able to see things like M13 this time of year with your scope, especially with the some of the clear nights we have had this week. In fact Thursday night, after 12 midnght I had one of the better views of M13 for some time since May, so stick with it, and don't give up, sounds like you are doing all the right things :).

11:40 is on the early side this time of year, that being said, I imagine M13 would already be visible, but not as good as after midnight and later. It will depend one where you are, if you have a lot of neighbouring street lights for example, or other light sources in the way. Do make sure you have stayed out a bit so you eyes have adapted to the dark conditions and keep away from any lights.

If you keep having difficulty after some time, perhaps ask your parents if they are willing to bring you to an astro club or something during a weekend. I am sure they'd be more than willing to offer help.

Good luck :)

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if you can afford one a red dot finder would allow you to place the scope more accurately in the initial alignment, I prefer Telrads but any that allows good adjustment will do e.g. the Baader skysurfer 3. you can then use your optical finder to tune in. make sure they are both aligned.

using a laptop or smart phone at the telescope will ruin your night vision/dark adaptation unless you use lowest brightness settings and a red screen. personally I use a red torch and a star map.

when I can see guide stars I can often find objects quicker than goto using these methods and you will too with practice. M13 is visible in a 9x50mm finder and any sort of binoculars so maybe try those first if you have some?

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I had one of my most successful viewing sessions last night, which was surprising given the time of year. Along with the moon (earlier on as it was quite low) and Saturn, I also managed to get good views of M13 and M27, both of which I found quite easily. I think this was mostly down to one big change I made - I took my scope to a much darker site south of Bristol. This was the first time it has left the back garden and just proved what a difference it makes. So I would say as someone who is still relatively new to the hobby, and was struggling to get good views as you are, try to find the darkest site you can. It seems (to me at least) that this makes more of a difference to your viewing than anything else.

Scott.

PS. M13 looks fantastic through my 18mm BST.

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I like to find my "finder stars" with a little light left.Why don't you try M57-the Ring Nebula?It is one I can almost always see and it lies between 2 easily found stars.So I put my location on Starry Night to London UK.At 10:30pm look East,then way up to find a very bright star Vega.Down from this about 2 finger widths and over about 2 finger widths (at arms length).You will find Sheliak.Down from sheliak 1 finger width there is Sulafat.From Sheliak ALMOST halfway down to Sulafat is the Ring,M57.So just try finding the stars first,then when its darker out have your scope pointing in between these stars,I find it almost everytime,even in light polluted skies.Look for a little round grey "smudge".After finding it with your low power eyepiece,try your higher power one.This object can take a lot of magnification I find.Don't get frustrated,just "dig in" and keep trying,I'm new too and there is a lot of tryin' goin' on!!You will find this stuff.

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Forget the apps for now and buy a sky atlas. Take it out with you and your telescope and a red flashlight and get to know the night sky a little. Take your time and find the constellation Hercules and look for the four stars that form the "keystone". M13 is between the stars eta and zeta. You can use eta as a starting point to guide you to M13. We call this star-hopping and it's something you will need to learn to do with your telescope. Star-hopping is a little difficult at first but, the more you do it the better you will get. Remember to always use your lowert power eyepiece first. In your case it's the 32mm LX you mentioned. Also, make sure your Telrad and/or finder scope are pointing at the same thing. Such as, when you first setup for the night, point your telescope at the star Polaris and center it, next center Polaris in your Telrad and/or finder scope. That way, when you point your Telrad at the star eta Hercules, your main telescope is also pointing at eta Hercules.

Here is a link to a star chart showing the constellation Hercules and the location of M13: http://www.constellation-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Hercules-constellation-map.gif

Good luck and don't give up. Your on your way to a fascinating hobby. When you have time, check out http://90millimeter.org/ to learn more about using your telescope and what you can see with it.

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First, for age 11, i love how you speak properly, and i mean not text speak, because that is one of my pet hates :D

But yeah anyway, dont get too annoyed that you can't find much when you have just started. I think when most people start, they can't find a thing, it just comes with time. The above suggestions of M57 and M13 are good, and you should be able to spot them. M57 is quite easy as it is dead in the middle of 2 star nears Vega.

http://www.solarius.net/assets/finder_charts/messier_57.pdf

Ignore the red circles on the map as that is for a finderscope called a Telrad. But the inner most red circle is where M57. But as one mentioned above, dont just have a quick look and say its not there. M57 is pretty bright, but it took me ages to see it, its kind of like an out of focus star, but once you study it, it is fairly obvious.

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