Why are scopes so much cheaper in the US?

[greglloyd]

I just happened to be browsing the net this evening looking at sites mentioning the Celestron NexStar range of telescopes and noticed that on average, they are 50% cheaper in the US!

NexStar 6SE - Average UK price = £820, Average US price $720 (£440)

NexStar 8SE - Average UK price = £1250, Average US price $1070 (£650)

That's a shocking difference in price and cannot really be justified in any way??

Also noticed similar differences for other brands of scope including Orion....

I know the US is cheaper for most things (I travel there with work all the time) but this is really quite an exception difference in pricing between the UK and the US. Rip off indeed.

[crashtestdummy]

tax

shipping

dealer profit

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Welcome to Rip off Britain

[Brian Nordstrom]

And the USA is a huge market , so the more they sell the cheeper things become ( well they are supposed to ?? )

We have the same problem here in Australia and New Zealand , it makes one want to cry when you see what the Americans pay for gear compared with the rest of us ..

$3000 nzd in New Zealand for a Celestron 8SE , thats about 1200 pounds . Shocking mark up !

And $2300 aud ( on average ) for the same in Australia , again shocking !

Brian.

[Coco]

tax

shipping

dealer profit

- It cost $800 dollars to get a container into long beach from china and £1800 to get one into Felixstowe , volume up the stock and divi the cost.. (doesn't include the cost from port to warehouse)

- US retail dealers seem to 'shift stock' like hot potatoes 'sell 20 @ $1dollar profit '' instead of to 5 @$4

- More people live in the USA and so the demand and buying power is greater

- 20% UK tax

goes on and on....

Big ticket items..go on a weekend hols to Florida and buy your kit then post it back home as commercial sample.. your sample of course

Buying abroad is risky, no warranty, no returns...

[Coco]

And the USA is a huge market , so the more they sell the cheeper things become ( well they are supposed to ?? )

We have the same problem here in Australia and New Zealand , it makes one want to cry when you see what the Americans pay for gear compared with the rest of us ..

$3000 nzd in New Zealand for a Celestron 8SE , thats about 1200 pounds . Shocking mark up !

And $2300 aud ( on average ) for the same in Australia , again shocking !

Brian.

But your in Darwin and still moaning...

You cant have your cake too mate...

[John]

Prices in the UK are less expensive than many countries on this side of the pond, if that's any consolation. In another thread we were discussing the scope options with a member from Norway and the prices he will have to pay are much higher than ours.

I don't think dealers in the UK do make large margins on astronomy equipment.

The USA has a much, much larger astro market than the UK.

[Brian Nordstrom]

But your in Darwin and still moaning...

You cant have your cake too mate...

But Guy I still have lots of astro friends in NZ that are struggling to afford any decent scope .

I am lucky all my gear has been got 2nd hand over the years for around 1/3 new cost , thats one thing Australia has and thats a thriving 2nd hand market and great / honest astronomy people , well most anyway .( have never been bitten , touch wood )

Brian.

[J_M_Franklin]

Many of the major causes have already been mentioned, but other factors are..

1. Import duties
   
2. Fuel costs for road transport
   
3. Higher Operational Costs for Road Transport
   
4. Higher cost of living means higher wages thus increased costs
   
5. Higher Property Costs
   
6. Higher Local Government Taxes
   

A couple of years ago I looked at importing some electronic goods to the UK as a contact in the manufacturer could get me in the door and on a decent deal, for what I was looking at it would have cost me £121.56 each, by the time I took into account all my operational costs and taxes, just to break even I would have to charge £203.47 + VAT, by the time I wanted to make even a modest profit per item of £12 (way below the market normal profit percentage), I was more than £30 more expensive than a major importer could retail them at because the bulk they could do was immense, and I know they made almost £40 profit on each item!!

The nation does not support business and actively stitches it up.

[lardy]

Also add to the equation, sole rights on selling in the UK ... D Hinds is the importer of Celestron and they are setting prices ... several companies in the US I contacted about buying and importing a CGE Pro ... they will not export to UK ... annoying when there was a sale on and the mount was going for $4000. On the other hand I did import ES 100 degree Ep and saved £100 after taxes duties carriage and not forgetting Global warranties a real pain to get honoured in the UK but with a lot of emailing you can get things sorted.

[Coco]

Also add to the equation, sole rights on selling in the UK ... D Hinds is the importer of Celestron and they are setting prices ... several companies in the US I contacted about buying and importing a CGE Pro ... they will not export to UK ... annoying when there was a sale on and the mount was going for $4000. On the other hand I did import ES 100 degree Ep and saved £100 after taxes duties carriage and not forgetting Global warranties a real pain to get honoured in the UK but with a lot of emailing you can get things sorted.

Yes indeed, I have had a few pieces of kit from OPT, they are fast and their prices are much cheaper than UK.. even after duty..

[greglloyd]

Of course, I knew all these reasons all along! I just wanted to spark up a debate ;-)

It's just a pain that this is how it is so! Here in the UK we pretty much pay over the odds for everything. A shame really.

I travel with work to the US frequently so I see the differences in pricing between the US and UK all the time. The differences with telescopes seem to be larger than most other items.

Regarding warranties, in most cases I haven't had an issue to be honest. I've bought iPads, etc and have had no issues with warranties. Even got a £100 rebate from Apple when they issued a new iPad a few weeks after one I had bought. All I had to do was email the San Francisco store I bought it at and they issued the refund to me straight away!

[pete_l]

I think the ridiculous prices that american manufacturers charge in europe and elsewhere is the main reason why they have lost so much market share to the chinese. Whether it's the UK distro's inability to negotiate a decent price, where everybody makes a reasonable margin, or intransigence on the part of Meade / Celestron (when they were an american company - now chinese owned, but still with a bit of the "old school" thinking to be flushed out?) with regard to "foreign" markets not being important to them? I don't know.

Although all the arguments regarding transport costs & taxes apply to ALL consumer goods: electronocs, computers, TVs etc. Telescopes and astro-gear does seem to stand out as being particularly highly marked-up outside the USA. I guess that's the "benefit" of dealing with a monopoly distro.

All I can say is that it used to be a lot worse: with higher prices all round. My 1999 vintage 8-inch SCT cost $3000 or £3,300 if I'd bought it from a UK dealer. Even with taxes and shipping I saved nearly £1k - plus the satisfaction of not getting extorted (priceless!).

To echo Coco's comment. OPT are brilliant. Helpful, knowledgeable and just so professional. They are willing to discuss options, they even OFFER discounts and they've called me back (transatlantic) to tell me about new options to sales enquiries I've made. Given how hard it can be to even get a UK dealer to answer the phone (or an email) sometimes, OPT are just a joy to deal with.

[JB80]

Depending on what you want even after all the added shipping and VAT it may well be worth considering ordering from the US, the dealer blockade is annoying but there are loads of companies now that will forward it on to you. You just need to do the research and see if it's worth it and if you are willing to take the shipping risk.

If you are an eu worker or know one you can always try having it sent to the office to avoid VAT if it really bugs you, smaller items are probably OK but I'm not sure how sus it would be if a C14 turned up in the mail room. It's not exactly something I would suggest anyone make a habit of but the worst that can happen is you end up paying the tax anyway.

[ronin]

I think the ridiculous prices that american manufacturers charge in europe and elsewhere is the main reason why they have lost so much market share to the chinese.

Wouldn't be 100% sure of that, some years ago one of the manufacturers was a bit shocked at the price of astro goods over here. They had expected something more in line with the US prices.

Another factor is that the US price is stated before Tax, in effect they give the price then add Tax(VAT) on after, so when you see $700 expect say 10% to be added to make the real price so $770 not $700. Different states have their own rate so it can depend on where you are.

The UK is not a big market, and I wonder if we have too many astro retailers. Many are quite small which pushes their costs up proportionally. A quaint little shop with 12 scopes in and 4 ranges of eyepiece is not going to have a high turnover. None of the UK retailers seem to have gone down the line that TS have and offer a good selection of the Chinese scopes, we do not start up (most of us) buying £2000 scopes, we start with £150 scopes. TS buy the Chinese scopes, have them branded TS and now UK retailers sell these TS scopes.

[nicks90]

if you do buy from the US - single items like EPs etc - build a good relationship with the seller first and get them to send the item as a "warranty replacement" - sticker on the package is usually enough, or "warranty replacement" on the attached invoice,

that way you dont have to pay import tax and can save a fair few quid.

[SteveNickolls]

Welcome to Rip off Britain

+1 to that.

When I was choosing my first scope about 7 years ago there was almost a 2$ to the £ exchange rate and I investigated importing a not insubstantial 'scope from the US. Even with VAT, Import duty and delivery costs there was a lot of money to be saved (or rather a bigger 'scope to buy within the budget I was willing to pay). While there was the worry over warranty (how much would it cost and how do you arrange to ship it back to the US if it's broken on arrival?) most telling was the simple fact that no US retailer was prepared to export the 'scope to a private address in the UK (as there was already a dealership in the UK). It meant retailers can, within the local competitive market conditions, charge as much as punters are willing to pay-busineses are after all in it to make the biggest profit possible. If the import situation for individuals has now changed for the good that's excellent news, unfortunately the £/$ exchange rate is nowhere close to that of several years ago (now around 1.62$ to the £ last time I looked).

Cheers,

Steve

[Alma]

An equally pertinent question would be - why are there hardly any businesses manufacturing scopes, mounts, eyepieces or after-sales kit in the UK? In theory, a strong domestic market supporting its indigenous businesses should mean low retail prices in the domestic market, which is largely the case with the U.S., hence lower prices than elsewhere.

In the UK we do have Orion Optics and Astro Engineering, of whom we should be rightfully proud, and that's more than most countries.

However, most of the internationally known astro manufacturing/distributing enterprises are based in the U.S. and increasingly Germany, decreasingly Japan, with the actual manufacturing largely in China, i.e. economies which place high value on small to medium size, privately owned businesses.

The business climate in the UK, despite politicians claims, is legislatively and fiscally extremely hostile to small enterprises. Big business, financial services and the public sector rule!

Pick up any American astronomy magazine and you'll see the Classifieds section packed with ads for small businesses in the after-sales market, mostly operating from tiny workshops or garages. I respectfully suggest that such businesses wouldn't last 5 minutes in the UK before sinking under the welter of Tax/VAT, health & safety, local authority planning and Euro regulations, etc. which seem designed to kill off any scintilla of ambition in some enterprising inidividual with a good idea or two.

So basicaly, stop moaning - you're living in the wrong country for cheap astro gear, but at least our local councils aren't bankrupt yet, we have a National Health Service, relatively low unemployment and we're not facing a "fiscal cliff", so it's far from all bad news.

Al.

[kirkster501]

An equally pertinent question would be - why are there hardly any businesses manufacturing scopes, mounts, eyepieces or after-sales kit in the UK? In theory, a strong domestic market supporting its indigenous businesses should mean low retail prices in the domestic market, which is largely the case with the U.S., hence lower prices than elsewhere.

In the UK we do have Orion Optics and Astro Engineering, of whom we should be rightfully proud, and that's more than most countries.

However, most of the internationally known astro manufacturing/distributing enterprises are based in the U.S. and increasingly Germany, decreasingly Japan, with the actual manufacturing largely in China, i.e. economies which place high value on small to medium size, privately owned businesses.

The business climate in the UK, despite politicians claims, is legislatively and fiscally extremely hostile to small enterprises. Big business, financial services and the public sector rule!

Pick up any American astronomy magazine and you'll see the Classifieds section packed with ads for small businesses in the after-sales market, mostly operating from tiny workshops or garages. I respectfully suggest that such businesses wouldn't last 5 minutes in the UK before sinking under the welter of Tax/VAT, health & safety, local authority planning and Euro regulations, etc. which seem designed to kill off any scintilla of ambition in some enterprising inidividual with a good idea or two.

So basicaly, stop moaning - you're living in the wrong country for cheap astro gear, but at least our local councils aren't bankrupt yet, we have a National Health Service, relatively low unemployment and we're not facing a "fiscal cliff", so it's far from all bad news.

Al.

I could not have put it better myself. Well said Al.

[Mr Q]

Yes, TAXES. That's why we rebelled 200 years ago :grin: Now that we are "on our own", we were allowed to grow economically and prosper

[Alma]

Yes, TAXES. That's why we rebelled 200 years ago :grin: Now that we are "on our own", we were allowed to grow economically and prosper

Absolutely, and you've done very well out of it. Globally us foreign stargazers have benefited hugely from the enterprise of companies such as TeleVue, Celestron, Meade, Astrophysics, etc., etc. etc., and we're hugely grateful. But none of us can have it both ways .... the U.S. is a great place for free enterprise, but your public sector is bankrupt and you pay through the teeth for private health care. In Europe we have mixed economies with social health care, state pensions, etc. etc. but we have to pay for it with taxes direct and indirect. So, we pay higher retail prices for things, and you pay more privately for the stuff that the State does for us - simple as that really.

Al

[Cleetus Van Damme]

An equally pertinent question would be - why are there hardly any businesses manufacturing scopes, mounts, eyepieces or after-sales kit in the UK? In theory, a strong domestic market supporting its indigenous businesses should mean low retail prices in the domestic market, which is largely the case with the U.S., hence lower prices than elsewhere.

In the UK we do have Orion Optics and Astro Engineering, of whom we should be rightfully proud, and that's more than most countries.

However, most of the internationally known astro manufacturing/distributing enterprises are based in the U.S. and increasingly Germany, decreasingly Japan, with the actual manufacturing largely in China, i.e. economies which place high value on small to medium size, privately owned businesses.

The business climate in the UK, despite politicians claims, is legislatively and fiscally extremely hostile to small enterprises. Big business, financial services and the public sector rule!

Pick up any American astronomy magazine and you'll see the Classifieds section packed with ads for small businesses in the after-sales market, mostly operating from tiny workshops or garages. I respectfully suggest that such businesses wouldn't last 5 minutes in the UK before sinking under the welter of Tax/VAT, health & safety, local authority planning and Euro regulations, etc. which seem designed to kill off any scintilla of ambition in some enterprising inidividual with a good idea or two.

So basicaly, stop moaning - you're living in the wrong country for cheap astro gear, but at least our local councils aren't bankrupt yet, we have a National Health Service, relatively low unemployment and we're not facing a "fiscal cliff", so it's far from all bad news.

Al.

Do you know how many telescope manufacturers London had back in the 1970's? That is dealers who actually made equipment rather than the glorified boxshifters we have today? So, no, I do not share your pride. AE gear is overpriced and not that great in my experience. I know nothing about the quality of Orion. I needed a wooden tripod a number of years ago and there was nothing available here in the UK. A simple tripod for God's sake! However, the tripod I did buy from Germany was available from a dealer here but at a considerably higher price. They didn't get the sale. Another example was a simple finder bracket not stocked by any of the dealers here so had to import. Now I import everything. You're right though things could be a lot worse here. We still get free air to breathe.

[Alma]

Do you know how many telescope manufacturers London had back in the 1970's? That is dealers who actually made equipment rather than the glorified boxshifters we have today? So, no, I do not share your pride. AE gear is overpriced and not that great in my experience. I know nothing about the quality of Orion. I needed a wooden tripod a number of years ago and there was nothing available here in the UK. A simple tripod for God's sake! However, the tripod I did buy from Germany was available from a dealer here but at a considerably higher price. They didn't get the sale. Another example was a simple finder bracket not stocked by any of the dealers here so had to import. Now I import everything. You're right though things could be a lot worse here. We still get free air to breathe.

OK, maybe pride was overstating it. I have bought stuff from AE and found it OK; I too have no experience of Orion. However, at least we have people in the UK producing stuff against the tide and I actually admire them for simply surviving as small manufacturing companies in the UK business climate. Germany of course is different - they actually nurture small manufacturing businesses (the "Mittelstand") because of their value to the German economy.

Al.

[Donkeiller]

I blame Europe, the Euro and Tony Blair for everything.

Including the high price of astro gear, cars, clothes- you name it.

They did it.

[John]

You know the rules folks - no politics please