Need Advice Guys

[Ronnie67]

I have a Celestron Nexstar 4Se, I sent it to the shop which I got it from, with a few days left on its 12 month grantee, because my wife bought it early as a Christmas Present Last Year, so it was put away for about three months, anyway the reason why I am needing some help or advice is this.

I scope has been doing some odd things lately like turning all the way round so that my eyepieces get stuck on the tripod, this happened a few times also it kept pointing in the wrong direction so i gathered something was wrong with the goto, I rang the company up on three occasions about this and they told me to try different things, but this time I wanted them to look at it. At the shop it was taken to the manufactures where they say an engineer examined the scope and found no fault and again they tried it out in the shop, again they said it was not faulty, so I asked them what the problem could be, hey sad it was because I was not using a celestron adapter but I said it even did the same with batteries, the owner of the shop asked me o send in my adapter so they could try it out to eliminate the possibility that my adapter was not causing it, I agreed but I have my own business and was in the process of moving to alternative premises, so in the middle of all the move I forgot to send the adapter, they phoned my wife to say they have not received the adapter and could I send it to them. Unfortunately again I forgot as the move was causing a great deal of problem and I had to focus on that as I had now but a few days in which to vacate the old premises and set up the new shop.

Today I came home to find a letter from the shop which has my scope, they are demanding that I pay them £95.00 for looking at the scope and a further £15 with a possibility of a further charge for the return of the scope and if I do not respond in two week they would scrap my scope.

Nothing was mentioned that I had to pay this figure also my scope was still under grantee at the time of the scope going back to the shop, can anyone give me some sound advice as to what to do, can they actually demand this money as well as scrap my new scope, I am going to check out where I stand tomorrow with trading standards as I feel I am being ripped off by this shop.

Any help on the matter would be gratefully apreciated

[brantuk]

The problem as you describe is symptomatic of power issues Typically a drop in voltage of some sort. But it's more common to see this on battery packs than power adaptors. I'm not saying that's deffinitely the cause but it sure sounds like it. I guess it would have helped to have the adaptor checked out - it's unlikely to be covered in the scope warranty unless you bought it as a package with clear warranty terms.

I'm not sure where you stand on the warranty and the charges - it's all a bit borderline due to the timing of events - but it sure sounds mean of them. A reputable astro dealer wouldn't normally do what you're describing - maybe they are being charged by the manufacturer. A quick call to the trading standards office will help establish where you stand legally if it comes to that.

[ronin]

I suspect that the dealer is valid in making the charge. If no fault is found then costs will fall on you. It is probably written somewhere as otherwise (in the extreme case) people would return a scope after 11 months, saying there appears to be a problem, get the scope checked and serviced and pay nothing. We don't drop things in for a check on other equipment and not get charged - cars 11 months after the MOT for instance.

Concerning the problem = normally it is reported as power, and if I recall Celestron use a fractionally different connector. Something like 0.1mm different and this is a factor, the connector just doesn't always maintain a constant connection. If you did not have a Celestron one then the fault is yours, it will be a non-standard item. Maybe someone else can comment but I have a recollection that people were advised to gently bend the centre pin to get a better contact. This could however result in the pin breaking.

There have been a number of reports of Skywatcher and Celestron electronic/electric problems here on SGL which is another factor to take into account.

[Welrod50]

They will scrap your scope after two weeks?? I'm pretty sure they can't to that. It's your scope - broken or not. As for the power supply issue, I can't comment but I would agree with brantuk, try calling trading standards, and root out your paperwork that came with the scope and check the smallprint about guarantees. It may explain more. I would call in to the shop with the adapter, explain your position and see if they can take a look. If they are a reputable company they should still oblige. If it does it again, your vindicated - if not, you may need to pay.

But as for scrapping your scope, I don't think so

Good luck.

[Stargazer33]

Hi Ronnie,

I hope you have managed to get your business sorted out and everything is now running smoothly there.

If you have the time, I would either write to or phone the store concerned and outline the story as you have on this post. Try not to point the finger or attribute blame. Explain that you too are a businessman running a company and you are aware of how difficult that can be especially in these economic times. If the store owners are honest/reputable people I would hope that they would understand that this all happened during a very difficult time for you and your business and come to some arrangement with you.

What was the old saying? "Softly, softly catchy monkey!"

I would also call trading standards and get as much legal advice as you can in your back pocket. Then you can use the other old saying. "Walk softly and carry a BIG stick!"

Good luck with getting this sorted out successfully.

I have a Celestron CG5 GT mount and the thing hardly ever turns on first time. I have had the board out and checked the solder joints; checked out the switch, everything. I have even opened out the centre pin halves to make sure the centre contact is making good, but I still get problems turning on! I haven't had any tracking or goto problems though...touch wood!

[cantharis]

They will scrap your scope unless you pay them? I think that could well be demanding money with menaces. I have always found trading standards to be great - but this sort of criminal behaviour is the job of the police. Make a complaint soonest.

[Lenny147]

Yep contact Trading standards, they would love to hear that story

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[faulksy]

i had similar problems with my celestron cpc scope when i bought it, turns out it was the 12v power lead the genuine celestron item, the plug wiring had all twisted and caused intermitent short circuit made a new one and its been fine since

[glowjet]

If you have returned the scope while still under the guarantee, the seller is duty bound under the Sale of Goods Act to try and resolve the problem, he does not have the right to scrap the scope and as he has, as you say, put this in writing to you he could be in serious breech of the Law, your recourse would be to refer this to a Solicitor or to the Trading Standards. However, they seem to have tried to assist you with the problem, but this can not be yet resolved without trying the lead you have been using, If I was in your shoes I would apologise for the delay with explanations and get the lead to them ASP, if in the end your lead and connector are at fault, then the company may well have a right to charge you reasonable costs for their time, as they have already reported to you that their engineer could no not find any problem with the scope

John.

[Peter Drew]

Ronnie.

I wish you'd brought it along to us, we would have checked it out and hopefully sorted it for free. If you need any help with it in due course the offer still stands.

[Ronnie67]

Hi all, thanks for your feed back, greatly appreciated, and I mean that. I am not the sort of person who would make up a story just to either get my money back or an exchange, I genuinely had trouble with the scope for about 6 months, I did ring Roth Valley Optic on thee occasions regarding the problems, I have just check out their warranty and this is what I pulled out.

If faults occur during the warranty period. For new goods this is 12 months from the date of purchase. We will either repair or replace at our discretion. Goods may be returned at anytime when out of warranty, carriage paid, for repair at a cost to be agreed before repair work starts.

The fault occurred about 6 months into the guarantee the above states that even after the warranty runs out they would still check the scope at a price agreed before work is carried out. Agreed before work is carried out and yet this was not mentioned on the phone and my scope was still under the 12 month warranty, which it was at the time Roth Valley Optics took receipt of my scope.

Nothing was mentioned about a charge if a fault was not found, but when I rang the first time, one of the assistants said the scope was tested and a fault was found in the hand set, yet half an hour later I received another call from the manager saying they have sent the scope to the manufacturers, when I mentioned what the assistant said he kept saying no the scope has just been sent off, so who is telling he porkies, also as a respectable company would send a letter on a letter headed paper with the date and also the signiture, which may I had the letter sent to me had non of these, it was a simple typed letter.

Brown Bwarf thanks for offer but unfortunately I have no transport and it would be a pain transporting the scope via a bus, but I would like to take you up on your offer for someone else to give me a second opinion, when I get the scope back, but first I have this issue with these monies this company is trying to get out of me

[Tim]

Thats funny, RVO usually get good reviews on the forums.

Probably they are running short of room in the build up to xmas stock levels and sent you a scary letter to speed you up a bit in doing your part?

Let us know how you get on!

Cheers

Tim

[Ronnie67]

I will, I am giving them a call tomorrow, spoke to trading standards and they are not to happy with them

[brantuk]

Rother Valley are usually pretty good - I've had a few bits from them and only disappointed once - but they resolved the situation very satisfactorily. However - I found their story varies depending who you talk to. Make sure you speak with the organ grinder - not the monkey lol.

Out of warranty - it may be worth considering that £50 for an experienced engineer to check the scope over for an hour - and £25 each way for carriage to/from manufacturer - doesn't seem too unreasonable at a total of circa £100 - so long as you get a working scope out of it.

However - within warranty - charges should have been agreed up front as your document indicates so it's definitely worth persuing that and see what their position is. Hope that helps - it'll be interesting to see how your situation developes.

[glowjet]

The question of warranty with its 12 or 24 months limit is a little misleading, I seem to recall reading that with expensive quality goods they are expected to have a useful user life span, that is to say in the eyes of the law just because the warranty period has expired the manufacturer has no further responsibility, not so, these goods have to be fit for purpose and I gather the law is on your side, as companies are still responsible for their products for some time outside the guarantee period

John.

[Ronnie67]

Made a call today to Roth Valley Optics, unfortunately the person in question is not available until Monday, so I am going to have to wait until then. I amuse under the guarantee, a guarantee states that the good should be of a satisfactory condition fit for use during the first twelve months after the purchase date. If for what ever reason a fault occurs with the product you have a right to return the goods in its original packaging to be examined and tested by an engineer free of charge regardless if a fault was found or not, they are saying no fault was found with the scope after being with them for a brief time, I have had the scope for almost twelve months and during that time the scope worked fine with no problems, but on occation it would have a mind of its own, now I am no engineer of telescope or in which they are constructed, but if the fault occurs more than a couple of time then surely I am in my rights to have the scope examined, bear in mind I did ring Roth Valley Optics on three occations with the same problem, and each time I followed their instructions as to what the cause may be and to rectify it over the phone, I even placed Duracell batteries into the housing and the fault reappeared, so I do not know why they are suggesting the fault may lye with the adapter

Another mind boggling experience was when I phoned the company after receiving the scope for a few day, I think it was almost a week, well it was the time I was told to ring back to get an up date on the situation, the call was with I presume one of the workers there and he did however say they have tested the hand controller and a fault was found, I say a fault was found because that is what he said and he did say that the found replace it, now only half an hour later the manager rag saying they have sent the scope off to the manufacturers to be tested, this is where the confusion starts one saying its been tested and a fault was found and half an hour later another call saying they have just sent the scope off. The only problem is I cannot prove he said that as it was a phone call and the manager is denying the worker said that as the scope has only just been sent off, but they have had the scope in there possession a good few days.

I have to wait until Monday to have yet another conversation with this Ian, so you can understand the anger I am in, all I want is my scope back, I have had item over the years returned within the guarantee and I have never been charged apart from the carriage to have it delivered back, which I have no problem with that, but I should not have to pay to have it examined.

Once again thanks, will let you all know what happens on Monday

[brantuk]

Yup - woth persuing very much - I agree you shouldn't have to pay a penny - the kit has to be fit for purpose despite the confusion the retailer conversations have caused you - I'd be well miffed. Good luck for Monday

[Tim]

How did it go?

[Ronnie67]

Hi Tim, it went well, however it took some talking, managed to get the £95.00 off after I quoted there warranty declaration also the trading standards gave me some good sound advice to forward to manager of the store. Just paid £20.00 for the return of the scope, as I agreed on the phone b4 the scope went off, he did not like the idea of me not paying the £95.00, but I stood my grounds, as for the letter, with regards to them scraping my scope after two weeks, trading standards was going to intervene if they went ahead with their threat. After about twenty five minutes we both managed to come to a compromise. The scope was returned this morning :laugh:

Ronnie

[Ronnie67]

Just opened the box to check all is there and found a few items missing, the receipt, 10mm eye piece and the moon filter, sent Rother Valley Optics an email to the effect, also do you think I was being petty when I also mentioned that the tape securing my handset to the scope missing, I left it on to secure the controller into the housing so it would not drop out when moving the scope around, it also kept it secure when in storage, it had been on for 11 months but the tech guys most have removed it on testing the controller. I guess it does sound petty but I take great care with many of my item, like leaving the screen cover on my ipad when I bought it last Christmas.

[MrPloppy]

The whole story sounds awful - for both parties, if you don't mine me saying so. I'm glad it's *almost* sorted out. My thought is that warranties are only an additional, mostly irrelevant (in my opinion!) artifact over the Trades Description Act which states that a sold product must be "fit for purpose". The TDA doesn't state how long this should be for, so companies, rather than having to dispute against the TDA every time offer warranties for 12 months or whatever (sometimes at the customer's expense!). There is, of course, no reason why you cannot take back your product after 12 months and 1 day to the shop and expect the same rights as the day before. You may not get things like postage paid and other things, but you do have a reasonable expectation that the product is fit for purpose for a duration which any person would deem acceptable. These phrases "fit for purpose", and "acceptable" are qualitative and as such are open to debate.

But your fault was found during the warranty period, but it seems that the shop tried to do all it could to help out. I understand that this wasn't your fault, but when the adapter wasn't being sent to them after a couple of requests, they were obviously a little concerned. I think some manager somewhere in the shop just got fed up with this scope taking up space and costing him money and wrote the letter he did. He went way above his remit and shouldn't have threatened to destroy the telescope (but on second thought, I bet you wished he HAD destroyed the scope. You could have sued him for another one, and that one might have worked properly! )

As nothing was found to be wrong with the scope, quite rightly he was going to charge you. I think it is good that he backed down, and you were (in my opinion) lucky for him to have done that.

So the whole affair seems to have been bad for both parties. I'm glad it is sorted out. Of course, the next thing is what you've just written about missing items in the box. That's going to be a tough battle, as I'm guessing no inventory was sent with the telescope! I'm sorry to say but unless you're lucky again, you may have a really battle.

Lessons learnt: try to reply back to the shop when requested. Send your stuff with an inventory.

Having said that - I don't think I've EVER sent an inventory with stuff I've sent back! I've learnt something there!

Good luck and keep us posted as to how it goes.

MrP.

[Ronnie67]

Hi Mr Floppy, I understand where you came from and totally agree but I was told on the phone that all I would have to pay was for the return postage of the scope if it was deemed fit for purpose and no fault was found, however he tried dropping me the bill to have the scope examined, in the warranty, it states that if no fault was found I must be notified before hand, all he had to say is, we will examine he scope under the condition that if no fault was found there would be a charge for the service, but nothing was mentioned. as for the missing items, it was specified over the phone that I must return all items with the scope on examination, the only thing missing was the bubble (Small circular spirit level), which I noted to them in a letter which accompanied the scope , I received an email from Rother Valley Optics saying they would try and locate my missing items. Just waiting now for there return

Ronnie

[MrPloppy]

That sounds promisiing, Ronnie! Fingers crossed for you, and I hope it gets sorted out soon. Its quite awful when you have to go through something like this; I had an episode similar (though not as bad!) last year regarding my car.

Oh, and the present Mrs Ploppy would not be happy that you called me "Mr Floppy". The name is Ploppy, Mr Ploppy. (Martini, stirred, not shaken).

[Ronnie67]

Oooopppss! I had not realized I had made such a boo boo with your name, just don't show her the message and she would never know . Received an e-mail today from Rother Valley Optics, that they have found all my missing item and I should have them tomorrow.

[brantuk]

Just caught up with this thread - great result Ronnie I'm very pleased for you. There was a time when this sort of stuff would be dealt with straight away for fear of a retailer or manufacturer loosing their reputation and customers. Nowadays they seem to enjoy fobbing customers off with excuses and making them worry and go through the hoops to get an issue resolved.

Typical of todays society and sorry you had to go through that mate - but glad you've got it all sorted out now