We may as well sell up now..

[Matt Scunthorpe]

It is only the Daily Mail so id take it with a pinch (a bucket load) of salt..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2191431/Could-man-clouds-halt-global-warming-reflecting-sunlight-Scientist-urges-experiments-using-ships-shoot-seawater-sky.html

[Naemeth]

It is only the Daily Mail so id take it with a pinch (a bucket load) of salt..

http://www.dailymail...awater-sky.html

This isn't new. Even if it does work, we'll never get any sunny days or clear nights, it's a stupid idea even if it does work. Besides, if you create more clouds you are making rain more likely and who wants that in the UK?

[Matt Scunthorpe]

we'll never get any sunny days or clear nights

That was my thought exactly, im with the group that climate change is a natural part of the earths climate. It warms, cool, warms etc. Im sure i read a report not long ago saying parts of the arctic were actually colder than they were a few 100 years ago, instead of warmer like everyone expected.

[paul schofield]

I know about the global warming situation, but really what a silly idea. What next ? Christmas tree lights on all trees so people don't bump into them. I have never been a fan of messing about with nature artificially. Salty clouds ? that would be lovely for the wildlife that depend on rain fall, not to mention plant life. Anyway I wont go on because lets face it, it aint gonna happen. Hopefully.

[Naemeth]

That was my thought exactly, im with the group that climate change is a natural part of the earths climate. It warms, cool, warms etc. Im sure i read a report not long ago saying parts of the arctic were actually colder than they were a few 100 years ago, instead of warmer like everyone expected.

This is true. The Earth though goes through cycles of Icehouse and Greenhouse, 20% of the time is spent in Icehouse (which we are currently in), and 80% is spent in Greenhouse. A change usually brought about by atmospheric CO₂. 100 years ago, atmospheric CO₂ was lower than today (I think).

I know about the global warming situation, but really what a silly idea. What next ? Christmas tree lights on all trees so people don't bump into them. I have never been a fan of messing about with nature artificially. Salty clouds ? that would be lovely for the wildlife that depend on rain fall, not to mention plant life. Anyway I wont go on because lets face it, it aint gonna happen. Hopefully.

Exactly what I was thinking, photosynthesis will become more difficult and less efficient, and everyone with solar panels will have to put up with rubbish conditions for power generation. Who wants 365 days of cloud and rain, all year, every year?

[TheNorthernMonkey]

This is true. The Earth though goes through cycles of Icehouse and Greenhouse, 20% of the time is spent in Icehouse (which we are currently in), and 80% is spent in Greenhouse. A change usually brought about by atmospheric CO₂. 100 years ago, atmospheric CO₂ was lower than today (I think).

Where do I begin with the factual innacuracies in this post?

The atmosphere is warmer than it was 100 years ago

CO2 Concentration in the atmosphere is significantly higher than it was 100 years ago

The majority of reputable atmospheric scientists think that this is due to human activity

[TheNorthernMonkey]

[Naemeth]

Where do I begin with the factual innacuracies in this post?

The atmosphere is warmer than it was 100 years ago

CO2 Concentration in the atmosphere is significantly higher than it was 100 years ago

The majority of reputable atmospheric scientists think that this is due to human activity

I never said the atmosphere has less CO₂ today than it did 100 years ago .

On Geologically long timescales, the Earth does cycle between Icehouse Earth and Greenhouse Earth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icehouse_Earth

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Another problem seems to be that the government or the scienctists who do the research tamper with the results. Now im not saying they all do, and the earth is warmer, but there have been instances in the press where they have said afterwards they altered the figures a little to alter the results in favour of their argument.

[kevrees]

I'm not a scientist nor will i ever be so am i being totally naive in that the world/solar system ticks along on its own just fine without anyone interfering. It gets warmer, it gets colder and by people trying to interfere in the natural course of things will end up making things a lot worse. I've always thought you just don't mess with mother nature cos she will come back and bite you big time.

[Monty]

Cheaper and easier to turn off all the lights after midnight...

[Si W]

This isn't new. Even if it does work, we'll never get any sunny days or clear nights, it's a stupid idea even if it does work. Besides, if you create more clouds you are making rain more likely and who wants that in the UK?

I think there thinking is, and I've only seen this on Telly so I’m no expert, they want to create cloud, then subsequently rain, as rain captures CO2 and locks it into rocks, I've also seen another one on telly that they can also us a powerful laser on a satellite, then fire it on the surface of the sea, so warming the water up and creating cloud, scary really if they can do these thing's, it's ok doing this sort of stuff, it's the long term implications that concern me, why can't the leave thing also, they can't even predict the weather, so there lack of understanding in weather pattern, they could cause a lot more problem's with global weather than we already have, they shouldn't be allowed to do stuff like this, it's like letting a 5 year old loose with a box of matches.

[Naemeth]

I think there thinking is, and I've only seen this on Telly so I’m no expert, they want to create cloud, then subsequently rain, as rain captures CO2 and locks it into rocks, I've also seen another one on telly that they can also us a powerful laser on a satellite, then fire it on the surface of the sea, so warming the water up and creating cloud, scary really if they can do these thing's, it's ok doing this sort of stuff, it's the long term implications that concern me, why can't the leave thing also, they can't even predict the weather, so there lack of understanding in weather pattern, they could cause a lot more problem's with global weather than we already have, they shouldn't be allowed to do stuff like this, it's like letting a 5 year old loose with a box of matches.

I thought it was to create a lot of white cloud to cover the Earth in a white blanket, increasing the Earth's average albedo from about 0.3 to something much higher. As far as I am aware, the ocean acts as a carbon sink (where atmospheric CO₂ is absorbed by the surface of the ocean, and then circulated), and slowly the ocean is becoming more acidic, and less able to absorb the CO₂. I've read that one possible solution is re-neutralise the ocean, by adding alkaline elements (not entirely sure what) to neutralise the effect of CO₂.

[Si W]

I thought it was to create a lot of white cloud to cover the Earth in a white blanket, increasing the Earth's average albedo from about 0.3 to something much higher. As far as I am aware, the ocean acts as a carbon sink (where atmospheric CO₂ is absorbed by the surface of the ocean, and then circulated), and slowly the ocean is becoming more acidic, and less able to absorb the CO₂. I've read that one possible solution is re-neutralise the ocean, by adding alkaline elements (not entirely sure what) to neutralise the effect of CO₂.

But can they control the amount of cloud they create? and what if that cloud continues to accumulate naturally creating rain, even storm's ? or spark off a natural disaster, can they really predict the outcome's of there action's ? or are they that narrow sighted, when they struggle to predict any normal weather pattern's on this planet in the first place, with there limited understanding of weather, both theories could work, but still, 5 year old and matches come's to mind.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

But who would control the cloud machine? My bet is USA would want control, then you've got the terrorists who would want to pollute the clouds or something like that. I cant believe its actually even been considered as a 'serious' proposal.

[TheNorthernMonkey]

Daily Mail and Serious?

[petermarknimmo]

That will never happen

[sallystar]

I know about the global warming situation, but really what a silly idea. What next ? Christmas tree lights on all trees so people don't bump into them. I have never been a fan of messing about with nature artificially. Salty clouds ? that would be lovely for the wildlife that depend on rain fall, not to mention plant life. Anyway I wont go on because lets face it, it aint gonna happen. Hopefully.

I don't think the slugs would appreciate the salty rain though!

[JamesF]

One for the climate change skeptics (and even the anthropogenic change skeptics)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change-skeptic.html

Published three weeks ago. I've not read the actual papers yet. But it's the work of a climate change skeptic, funded by organisations with an interest in negative result, producing peer-reviewed papers and all the results are on-line. If you can come up with a scientifically valid objection to his findings, perhaps you should get in touch with him.

James

[paul schofield]

I don't think the slugs would appreciate the salty rain though!

Now you mention it, there is an upside, slug and snail prevention, mmm that puts a different slant on things.

[iamjulian]

Climate change should probably go on the list of topics not to be discussed on SGL The trouble is, people are either in one camp or the other and neither will actually listen to the other's opinions. It is a fascinating and somewhat relevant subject, and discussions about it can be very interesting. But they can also quickly descend into, "you're an idiot if you believe this" "no, you're an idiot if you cannot see this". How about this...

The earth's global temperature will naturally increase and decrease in cycles over time.

"Global warming" refers to an overall net increase, which may or may not be 100% natural, and which can see some places getting colder.

The impact of man's activities (burning fossil fuels, etc), may or may not cause a tipping point for global temperatures.

Back to the cloud machine. Don't they already do something similar with cloud seeding before big events to get rid of moisture in the atmosphere?

[TheNorthernMonkey]

The USSR used to try to do this for their big parades

[Carbon Brush]

The Daily Mail is not renowned for it's quality and accuracy.

Sensationalism? Perhaps.

So we expend gigawatts of energy spraying water into the sky to prevent (probably less) gigawatts of solar heating.

Burning the oil to run the ships and pumps will add to the CO2.

Can't stay to further discuss the merits of the cloud idea. I'm off to work on my (almost working) perpetual motion machine.

[JamesF]

Perhaps if the DM stopped winding its readers up so much there'd be a noticeable period of cooling in the UK.

James

[Earl]

The Daily Fail is probably more useful as emergency toilet paper than factual reporting.... at a push