Biggish Dob - Ethos or Delos?

[dharma66]

So.

Im going to buy a shorter eyepiece for when my scope shows up. I'm in the fortunate position of not having to worry overly about the cost.

I've kind of settled on TV, and the best options seem to be Ethos or Delos.

Read lots of reviews about the Ethos, with people raving. But then I've read lots of reviews of the newer Delos, with several people even saying they are going to sell their Ethoi to invest in Deloi instead.

But I've also heard people say that the wide field of the Ethoi is great in a big Dob. My scope will be 12", and I'm not sure whether that counts as 'big' in this company of people wielding 16 and 20 inches!

I'd love to have the opportunity to look through both, but that's very uunlikely to happen, so I'm going to have to go on recommendation.

As an asside, if I was buying a top class clarinet mouthpiece, which would be in the same kind of price range, the supplier would fully expect me to ask them to send three or four different examples, and return the ones I don't want. Clarinet mouthpieces are as delicate as eyepieces (probably even more susceptible to tiny knocks, actually). It's a shame the same doesn't happen with eyieces!

Anyway, what would you choose? Ethos or Delos?

[John]

I've voted Ethos - I have 3 of them plus Naglers and a Pentax XW plus a 10" F/4.8 newtonian, amongst other scopes, which I use on an undriven altazimuth mount. The advantage of a sharp, ultrawide FoV with such a scope is significant IMHO.

If the immense FoV holds no draw for you then by all means save your £'s and go for the Delos or Pentax XW's - they are both superb.

PS: Good luck in finding a dealer who will let you "try before you buy" with £500 eyepieces !

[Moonshane]

I have put Ethos but with the proviso that I think 6mm in either design might not be the best choice of focal length. the 6mm would give about 250x and this will not be used so often for general observing. you might get use on the moon or doubles but what a waste? I hate using my Ethos on the moon, preferring simpler designs like BGOs or Televue plossls.

my 'only' Ethos is a 13mm (I'm glad I have it but would not buy another one - although I might one day be tempted to swap it out for a 17mm Ethos) and this was superb when I had a 12" scope as a workhorse eyepiece giving about 115x in your scope. in my current scope (1840mm focal length is gives about 140x also very usable most of the time and wonderful views. maybe a 10mm might be a better buy and get a lot more use for you? other people also use the Antares 1.6x 2" barlow which with a 10mm would give you around 6mm anyway. might be worth a think?

[Damo636]

I voted Ethos as you stated that cost is not a concern but to be honest I would be just as happy with the Delos if my 6mm is anything to go by. There is no doubt the Ethos are a wonderful eyepiece but leaving aside the 100 degree fov, imho, the Delos or Pentax XW are there equal in every single way.

[John]

At 250x a 100 degree FoV makes manual tracking somewhat easier than the 40 degree FoV of an ortho, in my opinion. Fortunately an Ethos matches fine ortho's in their other optical qualities too

But I've already had my vote ......

[dharma66]

Thanks everyone. I did ask on another thread whether 6mm might be too short for an f1500mm scope, but lots of people said they get a lot of use from 250x.

I'm not keen on the idea of barlows. I don't know why. Maybe it's because last time I was on the fringes of amateur astronomy (~25 years ago), they had a pretty bad reputation. I just feel I'd rather be dealing with just one expensive lump at a time.

I have to agree that 10mm does sound like a good optin...except the scope will come with a 10mm ep, and while I know it won't be of the same standard as a TV, or the other options mentioned, I'd rather extend my range of available eps before I start looking to replace those I have covered already.

Maybe 6mm is too short to get much use after all? I could go (first) for an 8mm at 188x, and half degree fov (for the Ethos), then go a bit shorter later?

[Moonshane]

At 250x a 100 degree FoV makes manual tracking somewhat easier than the 40 degree FoV of an ortho, in my opinion. Fortunately an Ethos matches fine ortho's in their other optical qualities too

But I've already had my vote ......

no argument at all John, it's just the amount of use I get at 250x is not half that at 150x on average. that said, I'd use my 12.5mm BGO over my 13mm Ethos on the moon anyday (although not on e.g. M13).

[swamp thing]

I voted ethos. If money is no object the a set of Ethoi would be hard to top. If however you will be only buying one or two, then the 2x Powermate would double the amount of Ethoi available to you, and TBH around 6mm would be a focal length I would get to via te Powermate and 13mm Ethos.

I understand your concerns about Barlow lenses, but that is a vey dated opinion and modern Barlows are not like that at all. In fact the Powermates are quite simply superb.

I use a Powermate to effectively double the amount of Naglers available to me for half the price.

[Mike73]

I voted ethos. If money is no object the a set of Ethoi would be hard to top. If however you will be only buying one or two, then the 2x Powermate would double the amount of Ethoi available to you, and TBH around 6mm would be a focal length I would get to via te Powermate and 13mm Ethos.

I understand your concerns about Barlow lenses, but that is a vey dated opinion and modern Barlows are not like that at all. In fact the Powermates are quite simply superb.

I use a Powermate to effectively double the amount of Naglers available to me for half the price.

Just how much better are Powermates compared to say a x2 Tal though Steve? Have you ever used a 'standard' barlow with Nags or Ethos EP's?

Edit: I voted Ethos

[swamp thing]

TBH not that much, the TAL are great Barlows and certainly no slouches optically. The main advantage of the Powermate is it doesn't mess with eye relief, it leaves it right where the manufacturer put it. Barlows don't, they increase eye relief.

The step up to Powermate from a quality Barlow is very small but then like all things optically once you reach quality the next step is small but costs plenty

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

For me personally (with glasses) the Ethos does not have enough eye relief, the Delos does. Barlowing a Nagler 12T4 with a powermate would be a compromise between the two: 82 deg FOV with sufficient eye relief.

[John]

Just how much better are Powermates compared to say a x2 Tal though Steve? Have you ever used a 'standard' barlow with Nags or Ethos EP's?......

If you can get hold of one the Antares 1.6x 2" barlow works superbly well with the Ethos eyepieces. Until very recently I used to use one with my 8mm and 6mm Ethoi for 5mm and 3.5mm 100 degree eyepieces - really worked well and the Antares seems to be a barlow that just "gets out of the way"

[Saleratus]

I think the best eyepiece for your scope will be around 13mm. That's my experience with dobs in this size and focal range. So I'd put your money there. Trade in the EP that the scope came with and get another EP for high power views.

You could choose between the 13 Ethos or 14 Delos (coming out this fall).

I have both Ethoses and Deloses, but obviously I don't have the 14 Delos yet.

In favor of the Ethos:

The 13mm is kind of a sweet spot in the Ethos line, and it's a nice one to have even if you don't intend to get other Ethoses

The view is blow-away, and really does sometimes make you feel as if you could be falling into it.

The EP has a very high standard of fidelity and clarity, remarkable given the field of view.

Other people are really impressed by it and its a lot of fun.

In favor of the Delos:

It's better for perfectionists because the views are slightly crisper than in the Ethos

It's more comfortable to use for long periods--if you're the kind of astronomer that really likes to concentrate on a view.

It's less prone to fogging on cold nights as your moist eyeball remains further away from it.

It's FOV is still nothing to laugh at, and some people prefer a telescope view to be nicely framed in a wide circle.

It's lighter weight and the Delos line have admirably consistent weights and so don't cause balance problems like ethos can--though in your largish scope this probably isn't an issue.

I know that Pentax XWs have a lot of fans. They are a lot like Delos in ways, but I have owned both and think there's something more immediate about the views in the Delos. Delos are also more reliable at short focal lengths--which you are verging on.

Like you, I don't like to barlow much as it gets in the way of the fluidity and simplicity of the experience for me. I hope this all helps!

[Damo636]

The 13mm is kind of a sweet spot in the Ethos line, and it's a nice one to have even if you don't intend to get other Ethoses

The view is blow-away, and really does sometimes make you feel as if you could be falling into it.

The EP has a very high standard of fidelity and clarity, remarkable given the field of view.

Other people are really impressed by it and its a lot of fun.

I would agree with this assessment of the 13mm. I also have the 8mm and although equally impressive, just doesn't quite give me the same "wow" factor as the 13mm? Although the eye relief is quoted at 15mm, for whatever reason, to me at least, it feels tighter than with the 13mm?

[John]

I would agree with this assessment of the 13mm. I also have the 8mm and although equally impressive, just doesn't give me the same "wow" factor as the 13mm? Although the eye relief is quoted at 15mm, for whatever reason, to me at least, it feels tighter than with the 13mm?

I tend to agree with this re: eye relief. The 6mm Ethos definitely feels like it's closer to the 12mm of the Nagler T6's with regards to eyerelief. The 8mm and 6mm Ethos are superb eyepieces for globular clusters and planetary nebulae though - I find they certainly do deliver "wow" on such objects with a decent aperture scope

The Delos range are going to be something to marvel at though I reckon - trouble is the used price of an Ethos is not far off the new price of a Delos so "downsizing" is not going to be too easy !

[dharma66]

Many thanks to all.

So now I'm kind of erring towards the 13mm Ethos and 2x2" powermate.

Now it's just a case of summoning up the courage to checkout a shopping cart that's half the cost of my scope!

[Moonshane]

blimey, you must have a good scope!

[dharma66]

Erm. Confession time.

I don't have a scope.

I have a scope on order. I used to to have a Tal-1, but that got kerfoodled (long story), so I'm upgrading to a SkyWatcher Synscan 300p. That's £1300, and the Ethos/Powermate combo is a smidgen over £650 at Teleskop Express. That's at least a hundred and fifty quid cheaper than buying in the UK! First good thing to come from the European Union!

The reason I'm in a bit of a rush is that I'm expecting (hoping) the scope will arrive just a day or two before I go to Abershoch for a week, which is in one of the darkest bits of the UK. So I want a nice shiny short eyepiece, just in case I get nice weather, to open up some nice globs, and really enjoy my luverly new toy scientific instrument. I'm going to want nice eyepieces in the long run, I'm just trying to decide what to go for now, whilst not causing problems for deciding how to extend in the future.

Another reason to hurry is that Telescop Express are advertising 'Great prices on TeleVue', so I don't want to miss the boat!

However...I just noticed Telescope House have the 17.3 Delos. That would give me a nice wide-ish field, and falls nicely between the 25 and 10 that will come with the scope. It'll also give something like 180x with a 2x Powermate, which is more likely to be more often usable than the >200x with a PM'd 13E.

But then it'll be a Delos, and not an Ethos, and it'll only save just over £100 than buying the Ethos from Teleskop Express.

Aaagh. It took me a year to choose my scope...I was hoping that was the hard bit!

[Damo636]

The scope is the easy bit mate and you have that end of things sorted in style ;-)

Imho, and especially as there is only £100 between the two, I would pick the 13 Ethos every time. Its a simply unbelievable eyepiece and every time I look through it, it quite simply takes my breath away! 12" of aperture and the 13 Ethos are a match made in heaven and imo there is no finer eyepiece to start building your collection around. The 17.3 Delos will show roughly the same amount of sky, approx 0.85° but I can't help feeling it would lack the "wow" element the Ethos possesses in bucket fulls! Regarding the supplied SW modified achromat eyepieces, the 25mm is usable, the 10mm is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle! Both the Ethos and Delos will show the same amount of sky as the supplied 25mm though, so it would end up obsolete anyway. As already mentioned above, the Antares 1.6x barlow is superb with the Ethos and a lot cheaper than the Powermate. Good luck with your decision :-)

[estwing]

The scope is the easy bit mate and you have that end of things sorted in style ;-)

Imho, and especially as there is only £100 between the two, I would pick the 13 Ethos every time. Its a simply unbelievable eyepiece and every time I look through it, it quite simply takes my breath away! 12" of aperture and the 13 Ethos are a match made in heaven and imo there is no finer eyepiece to start building your collection around. The 17.3 Delos will show roughly the same amount of sky, approx 0.85° but I can't help feeling it would lack the "wow" element the Ethos possesses in bucket fulls! Regarding the supplied SW modified achromat eyepieces, the 25mm is usable, the 10mm is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle! Both the Ethos and Delos will show the same amount of sky as the supplied 25mm though, so it would end up obsolete anyway. As already mentioned above, the Antares 1.6x barlow is superb with the Ethos and a lot cheaper than the Powermate. Good luck with your decision :-)

....and thats the reason i got the 13mm ethos from teleskope...and picked up a second-hand powermate,along with a 12.5" dob from abs..total spend £950..which isn't bad at all. could of been alot more if i hadn't listend to good honest advice from people on this site.

[dharma66]

Yeah I'm starting to get the picture: The Ethos is worth it, and 13mm is the sweet spot.

I'm just putting a few old (non-astro) collectibles on eBay to balance the books, but I reckon 13E + 2x2"PM is the final choice.

[swamp thing]

Great call that'll be an awesome combo.

I use a 12mm T4 Nagler and 2" Powermate, it's a really nice combination.

[Damo636]

I agree, good decision. This is a very cheap Ethos 13 (approx £270!!) if you could convince the seller to ship internationally...

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=782108

[dharma66]

Wow! Cheers Damo, got to be worth an ask! Just need to wait for my registration to through so I can contact the seller!

[John]

Astromart charge for registration now I believe.

Watch you don't get caught for import tax / duty if they do agree to post it to the UK - that can hurt as I've found out a few times myself !