Dark skies: from ooh! to bah!

[pajr777]

Seemed to be great viewing tonight, the crescent moon with Venus and Jupiter resplendent got me off to a great start. Earthshine made the whole disc of the moon easily visible by naked eye, and the features of the moon looked amazing, especially Mare Crisium.

Getting dark so headed over to Orion and happy to add M43 to my tiny Messier haul

Once night had properly fallen I thought I was in with a good chance of finding my first galaxy so set about Ursa Major and hunted for M81.. but disappointed not to find it again. I'm sure I was in the right vicinity, following a line from Phecda through Dubhe then coming slightly towards Polaris... but nothing

Part of the problem is trying to move the 'scope in a 'straight' line when it's on an EQ mount, and the other part is trying to keep orientated when the 'scope is pretty much vertical. At least this hobby is keeping me limber!

Any easy galaxies in the South?

[Double Kick Drum]

An alternative way to find M81 and M82 is to find the two stars beyond Phecda and Dubhe, which are almost but not quite parallel. Continue that line for an equal distance North and you come to a right-angled triangle of 5th magnitude stars. Move East from there very slightly and you will come across another pair (similar separation to the triangle) of 5th magnitude stars. The galaxies are just to the Southeast of these.

Convoluted perhaps but hopefully it will give you an alternative way to find them.

EQ mounts are not easy to move where you want when looking directly overhead. Practice will help though.

Stick at it, the galactic pair are worth it!

[richbyers]

man i spent an entire night to get them two....best advice- keep at it, its out there- honest

if my tiny 130p that you have to kneel down to look at it will get it yours will

[pajr777]

I'm thinking about trying the setting circles - good idea or more frustration down that path?

[Demonperformer]

Any easy galaxies in the South?

Loads ... the whole area 'below' the plough is full of them, right through CVn, Com, Leo & Vir. Maybe the Leo triplet (M65, M66 & NGC3628) would be a good group to go for (located just under three degrees south of theta Leonis) or M95 & M96 (about 2 1/2 degrees east of Mars atm)? One of my favorites is M104, the sombrero galaxy (follow a line from Saturn through Spica, just under twice the distance between them).

HTH

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

When using an EQ mount to star hop, I tend to think in RA-Dec moves, rather than "a straight line from A to B". I centre a star in the finder, work out a move in Dec or RA to get me to a distinctive asterism or multiple star, preferably immediately at the right Dec or RA as the target (or at least a good deal closer in RA or Dec, and repeat the procedure till I am at the target. When I get home I will looak at my sky atlas and post the sequence I use for M81/M82. M106 is quite a bright one, you could try that as well.

[Daniel-K]

get over to leo and virgo for galaxy's you cant miss theres loads!!

[Stargazer_00]

A good tip for M81 and M82 on an EQ mount is to simply rotate your entire mount 90 degrees off polar alignment, i usually point mine west.

this isnt much good for taking photos but for visual its perfectly adequate. this would give you the comfort like looking at objects in the high east (think Leo area, bit higher).

Once you have done this I find M81 and M82 everytime with just the finderscope. Line up on the corner of the dipper and head off on the line, there are 4 stars in a kinda of zig zag, do the line of best fit through these 4 and follow along that line, i usually have both axis on the mount unclamped and use my hands on the scope itself to move it, having the clamps just a little on allows the scope to stay still when you let go, another good tip. anyway, follow that line through the zig zag of lower mag stars and then you'll have a small sparse patch, follow on this line and just as the last of the faint zig zag stars goes out of your finder scope you'll see a brighter star with a lower mag star near it come into view just off (below) the line you are following in the other side of the finder. Stop following this line when the brither star is about halfway between the centre of the finder and the edge of the finder and lock the clamps. Judging exactly where to stop is what will come with practice, this is a good enough indicator for now.

Now switch to a low power EP in your scope, 25mm is fine, and you will have both M81 and M82 in your scope.

I can find them in this way in about 10 seconds from any position. Practice it, find them then set the scope off at some random angle, find them again. repeat it a few times then you'll be able to get them every single time

Hope it helps

[pajr777]

Thanks all - and Stargazer00 the tip of moving away from Polar is genius, I'll try that tonight with your instructions and report back

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

That tip does mean you lose tracking. I think the advantage of thinking in terms of RA-Dec star hops is that the same moves are involved regardless of where the constellation is at the time of observing.

[Stargazer_00]

It does. I personally just find looking at M81 and M82 when the scope is polar aligned to be a bit obstructive. Although you lose tracking, I typically only look at DSOs for a few minutes and they dont move very quickly in a 25mm.

Naturally if you wanted to image them this is a bad idea

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

An EQ-mounted Newtonian can require some contortions, unless you use rotating tube rings. My SCT has no such problem, just rotate the diagonal.

BTW, if you get M81 and M82, look out for NGC 3077 (mag 10.6, quite compact) in the vicinity. I sketched that years ago with a 6". NGC 2976 (mag 10.8) is also close by.

[pajr777]

I think I'm going to try the off-polar route with Double Kick Drum's star hopping - I can see the stars he is referring to in Stellarium and the route looks good. Once I've 'learnt' the position of the galaxies I might try with polar alignment. Not imaging and I only have slow motion control tracking, so no biggie to move both Dec and RA knobs to track manually.

I have a Telrad on back-order with FLO, that should help a lot with the Telrad option on Stellarium

I did get to the point of thinking "why didn't I get GOTO!?" last night, but actually when I crack this I am going to be pleased as punch

[Stargazer_00]

I find the actual navigation extremely rewarding. I think that's one of the things about astronomy that has me hooked. I love memorising the way to find things as much as actually looking at them. The harder to find the better

[Bluey]

They looked great last night, I was surprised how bright they were. Once you do find them, it seems easy to find them again, keep at it.

[Katen]

I did get to the point of thinking "why didn't I get GOTO!?" last night, but actually when I crack this I am going to be pleased as punch

My daughter had the same thoughts trying to find fuzzies on Friday evening but I keep telling her that the satisfaction when you learn how to do it properly and achieve success will be well worth it. Learn your craft well!

[pajr777]

I've printed out Stellarium maps, drift polar alignment techniques from the TAL manual (no polar scope on my mount), and co-ords for Dubhe, 24 UMa and M81 and also calculated off-set RA/Dec between each of the two stars and M81.

One way or another I feel adequately 'tooled-up' for the challenge tonight

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Best of luck!

[Moonshane]

no matter how many times I look at M81 and M82, I 1) think they look superb and 2) struggle to locate them unless I methodically star hop through the finder scope following a map. I know exactly where they are but find it tricky to put the Telrad in the right place. I can find most other items in seconds and oftehn they are in the eyepiece with just the Telrad but for some reason these two.........

[pajr777]

no matter how many times I look at M81 and M82, I 1) think they look superb and 2) struggle to locate them unless I methodically star hop through the finder scope following a map. I know exactly where they are but find it tricky to put the Telrad in the right place. I can find most other items in seconds and oftehn they are in the eyepiece with just the Telrad but for some reason these two.........

For me it's the lack of high mag stars to hop around combined with the overhead position - squatting/kneeling, craning neck combined squinting at the maps in the dim red glow of my adapted clip on book reader.. But I am determined

[Moonshane]

determination, combined with enthusiasm is a good combination for visual observing!

[Scott]

M81/82 are gonna be my targets tonight. so far my Messier objects are.... wait for it... M45,M42,M43... please don't laugh too loud.

[haitch]

M81/82 are gonna be my targets tonight. so far my Messier objects are.... wait for it... M45,M42,M43... please don't laugh too loud.

You must like early nights if you haven't done M13 yet.

[Astro Imp]

Good luck with your search to-night and let us all hear how you got on.

I tried several times last night and failed, like Shane I found using the Telrad at near the zenith extremely difficult, will try a star hop next time.

[Scott]

You must like early nights if you haven't done M13 yet.

don't like them but work dictates bed for 23.00/24.00 but i'll certainly give it a go asap. also very new at this.

if only they had nametags for us newbies...