Can't see any DSOs in colour

[muttley]

Sorry for the rather dozy question, but are all DSOs really just black & white? I appreciate that the colours you see in the photos aren't picked up so well by the eye, but when I look at M42 it is purely black & white without a hint of colour, as is the ring nebula. It was a bit disappointing to be honest, but I am viewing from a village with a little light pollution.

Could just be my dodgy eyesight, but it would be useful to know if better eyepieces, or really dark skies make any difference. Just for the record, Mars & Betelgeuse do look red to me!

Thanks,

Simon

[LukeSkywatcher]

Hi Simon

I'm afraid what you are seeing is as good as it gets. The human eye simply cannot detect colour over the distances that light has to travel from DSO's to get to us.

[John]

I agree with Paul, with the exception of some pale lime green tints that are sometimes seen in M42, shades of grey are the standard fare on deep sky objects.

[muttley]

Thanks for the quick replies, much appreciated. It would have been nice to see a hint of colour, given how long it takes a beginner like me to find anything! It is exciting enough just to find a DSO, so it would be churlish to grumble.

Simon

[spaceboy]

I don't want to go against the grain here but I have clearly seen pink on M42. The seeing was the best I have ever known and I was using premium EP at the time but there is no doubt in my mind that I saw pink and very obviously as well. I was also able to clearly see other stars in the trapezium which also showed some colour. It was only the one time and I have viewed M42 at dark sites and never made out any colour so I think it must have been one of those rare nights when seeing and transparency was perfect. Other member have mentioned that they see green in M42 but I have only ever notice a hint of green in M57 using a 200K and Tal plossl. The blue snowball follows it's name. Some double stars show distinct colour differences and as you mentioned the planets also have subtle shades. Other than the one off's I can't say I have seen colour in any other DSO's. Glossy magazines do unfortunately miss guide beginners. I know you said you weren't expecting to see multi coloured images but given the light years away most DSO's are I'm often humbled by the fact we get to see anything.

[magic612]

It depends partly on the observer, aperture of scope, and transparency of skies. I've seen green, blue, orange and hints of rose in M42 with my 10" Dob on a very transparent night. Other observers have spotted some color in the Dumbbell Nebula M27, and the Ring M57 sometimes too. But most other typical Messier objects will not display color.

Stars, on the other hand, can be quite colorful, as can some stellar-like planetary nebula, which can be intense blue and green - though you won't see much detail in those. Some good color in stars that can be seen are Gamma Andromedae, Albireo, Mu Cephei, Hind's Crimson star, etc. Even the difference in color of Betelgeuse and Rigel in Orion are quite apparent.

But for most non-stellar objects (bright PN's the exception), yes, grey is the most you'll tend to see.

[Astro-Nova]

hello, good topic this is

would a filter do anything for the colour??? Would love to see colour as well

[S1m0n]

Yea I think it's down to the individual and how his eyesight and optic nerve and brain can handle the information coming to it.

Just for example some people say a 1080p TV using so many millions of colours, that no one can see any difference because the eye can no see all that detail but to me and a few other friends who have 20/20 vision can quite clearly see extra detail and colours.

It's like sound some people can't hear certain sound waves while some can.

The overall census though is that deep space objects that we see now are many many years old as the light has took many years to travel which diminishes the quality for the human eye to pick up

Maybe in the future evolution will allow us to see more via the naked eye but for now a nice camera will help us see all the colours these DSOs have to offer but I know how a lot of people feel as they prefer to see it with there own eyes

[Digz]

What about the rods and cones in our eyes, surely if there isnt enough light then only the rods are used which do not allow us to see in colour....

If you are lucky enough to see colour then the seeing must have been exceptional and your cones very sensitive?

[symesie04]

Yes a simple adaptor will allow you to attach even a point and shoot to the scope, a few seconds exposure will start to show some colour. Not as good as seeing it with your own eye i know but it will show some more detail of what your seeing which can be quite exciting in itself.

[acey]

Our retina has two types of receptor: rods and cones. In bright light we use cones (photopic vision) in very dim light we rely on rods (scotopic vision). Cones are sensitive to different colours, rods have very limited colour sensitivity. So in low light levels we essentially see in monochrome.

DSOs are very faint, so they are almost exclusively monochrome to our eyes. Distance has nothing to do with it: this would remain true if we were right next to them.

How we perceive low-light monochrome vision varies from person to person: some see varying shades of grey, others perceive shades of blue or green.

Some nebulae are bright enough to look definitely blue or green; a very few DSOs (such as M42) may show a tinge of red if the sky is dark enough, and the observer's eye happens to be sufficiently sensitive.

[WiKi_KiKi]

So, as a beginner still, our eyes cannot visually see the colour in many DSO's, but digital cameras can? I guess this is why astrophotography equipment can be very expensive.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Apparently more women see colour in M42 then men do. Women have more colour receptors in their eyes then men.

[magic612]

...a very few DSOs (such as M42) may show a tinge of red if the sky is dark enough, and the observer's eye happens to be sufficiently sensitive.

My understanding is that color perception doesn't have anything to do with sky darkness, but rather how bright the nebula appears to activate the cones on the retina. Transparency of sky is more important than darkness; in fact, in some cases too much darkness may actually hurt. There were some folks on the Cloudy Nights forum talking about this a year or two ago, and found that intentionally having some ambient light around allowed for greater color perception.

It's because the "in between" vision - mesopic vision (between photopic and scotopic) - allows the cones to pick up some color in some people's eyes. Certainly aperture is going to help in this regard; capturing more light is going to help make an object brigther, improving chances of perceiving color.

But I don't believe darkness of skies is wholly responsible for that. I typically have NELM skies of 4.5 - 5.0, at best, and have perceived color in M42 under those conditions.

Aperture, transparency of atmosphere, and observer's eyes are the keys. Some ambient light, and decent viewing conditions also are factors, as I understand it.

[space_monkey]

Top thread, its certainly taught me something I didnt know and will stop me from being too disappointed when I finally get a scope of my own.

[RikM]

The ring nebula often appears pale green / blue to me. M42 has seemed very pale green on just a couple of occasions.

[sologuitarist61]

Top thread, its certainly taught me something I didnt know and will stop me from being too disappointed when I finally get a scope of my own.

I think this is the problem for most people - that first look through a telescopes can indeed be very disappointing, especially if you have previously seen photos from the like of Hubble (and the really good AP members here). My eyesight is particularly bad (having had major surgery to both) so I no longer expect too much - hence my reason for moving into AP.

[space_monkey]

What sort of colouration should I expect whilst viewing the planets ?

[Tribal-Wolf]

I see green in the M42 sometimes too. Mars is orangey-red, Jupiter is the same as my webcam sees it which I didn't expect. I have seen colours in stars and let's not forget you can see red, white and blue on the moon........or can you lol.

space_monkey I don't know which part of Hull you're in but you're welcome to come and take a peek through my scope sometime if you like, I don't stay out for hours and hours though and my neighbours seem to like to play flood lights with me when I'm out lol.

[space_monkey]

space_monkey I don't know which part of Hull you're in but you're welcome to come and take a peek through my scope sometime if you like, I don't stay out for hours and hours though and my neighbours seem to like to play flood lights with me when I'm out lol.

Thanks for the offer, I'd love to take you up on it but my main problem is I work split shifts and free time in an evening/night is limited.

[AlBoning]

I think the question that should be asked here is, "How much aperture does it take to bring out the color of a DSO?" I don't have the answer to that but my guess is 8" occasionally, 10" often, and 12" most of the time.

[RobH]

I've never seen colour in any DSO, and have logged a fair amount of time on 20 inch scopes from very dark skies.

My eyes are not brilliant now, but they used to be.

TBH, I reckon that in most cases where folk appear to percieve colour on DSO's with small scopes (and for colour, a 12 inch is small), it's actually the brain interpreting the data and adding some colour...after all, reegardless of what the eyes pick up, the signal still has to be processed by our grey spongy CPU.

The test would be to take someone with no preconceptions at all and see if they percieved any colour, then repeat the test with several hundred subjects to see if they all agreed.

Apparently, in very large scopes (a couple of metres plus), colour does become undeniably visible.

When the Japanese Subaru telescope (8.2 METRES) was commissioned, an eyepiece was put in and reports say that objects were like in the photos...full technicolour!

That would have been an amazing experience.

Rob

[umadog]

I too have heard that colour becomes visible in these mega-scopes.

To the OP: you may want to try taking a trip to dark skies. Your skies may not have direct light pollution and are good for the SE, but in absolute terms they are pretty light polluted. Try to get to the north norfolk coast or better yet to Wales. You won't see colour but the views will make you **** yourself.

[sanmatt]

Apparently more women see colour in M42 then men do. Women have more colour receptors in their eyes then men.

Can't see naff all me

To me through a 6" in dark skies it was light grey, and I'm happy to see that. Although rainbow like would be awesome.

[faulksy]

you should see colours in the ring nebula. i can see colours similar to my avitar just a little paler