Laptops - rugged or not?

[TerryW]

Hi,

The laptop that I use for imaging has died. It was about 2 years old. I suspect it wasn't up to the job of staying out in very damp conditions. It was a very nice Packard-Bell Easynote 17" screen computer. I don't think it has any ingress protection whatsoever and standing it on a dripping wet table in my garden is probably what has done for it. My fault entirely. I am stupid and will pay the price of my actions as I need to replace the laptop to get more webcam shots of Jupiter.

Has anyone a suggestion for a replacement that will do the job reliably? Ruggedised or even semi-ruggedised laptops are very expensive but maybe that is what it takes.

What do you guys and gals use?

Terry

[Bizibilder]

I use an ordinary HP laptop. It lives in a laptop "soft case" which is padded and protects it somewhat. I also use a MDF laptop box (see pic) which helps keep the dew off, plus I'm usually in a roll off roof observatory. This means the lappy creates its own warmish, dryish micro-climate and seems to be a happy lappy!! (sorry - couldn't resist!).

Cold is not a problem - laptops usually suffer from overheating.

[Beulah]

Have you checked to see whether it is an issue with the powerpack? With such relatively 'new' machines, it's usually the first thing I check.

[RikM]

I use a standard HP lappy too. I use a plastic storage crate tipped on its side as a shelter for it and sling a blanket over it when not staring at the screen.

[KevG]

Been using a HP NC4010 for a couple of years now, dropped it on numerous occasions, and generally abused it, but it's still going strong. It is a low spec machine but perfectly ok for capturing AVI files, just transfer everything over to the decent machine once inside. You can pick up 4010's for under £100

[TerryW]

Have you checked to see whether it is an issue with the powerpack? With such relatively 'new' machines, it's usually the first thing I check.

Power tests out ok. Battery tests out ok. The laptop doesn't POST (power on self test). This usually means a small component failure or a track issue on the motherboard.

I suspect the fan, on the underside of the laptop, has sucked in some moisture and/or dirt into and onto the Motherboard. The fan wirrs, the disk chunders for a second. Nothing at all on the screen and/or an external second screen and then it locks in a useless state of blank-screeness. Unlike a desktop there is little you can do past this point except replace it. It is cheaper to buy new than get repaired or even repair it yourself.

KevG uses a cheap low spec machine to good effect. I suspect that is the way to go. Maybe a reconditioned unit housed in some sort of protective shell as per Bizibuilder's suggestion.

Terry.

[Bizibilder]

Try Morgan Computers - they do second user quite cheaply (usual disclaimer).

[ollypenrice]

As a minimum, standing them on a piece of polystyrene insulation sheet lifts them off the damp table and keeps them warmer. SOme kind of micro climate creating box is the thing, really.

Is it true that they don't suffer from cold? An electronics journalist I know told me the reverse, though I think when they are running they seem fine. When I leave them dormant in the unheated observatory now, though, they sleep on puppy warming bed trays. (Yes!) Mind you, nights in winter can be cold here, down in the teens below sometimes.

Olly

[MikeWilson]

They don't suffer from cold (why would they?) although they absolutely do suffer from getting clogged with dust and particulate matter (causes components to overheat) and dew/moisture is absolutely to be avoided.

Fortunately, laptops while running are themselves akin to dew heaters, which should keep them dry (as long as they're not on the floor or soaking wet table). My concern is when using my laptop outside on battery power that when unattended the battery may die, the laptop power off and then dew will ingress via the keyboard. Would need to be a lot of dew to make much difference though.

I use a Lenovo S205.

[James]

When mine's being used outside I sit it in a Maplins flight case - the heat generated by the laptop is more than sufficient to keep things a little warmer in the case than outside even when it's left ajar. It keeps the dew off as well.

Unfortunately for me my laptop didn't survive a drop of a couple of feet onto the floor of my garage The laptop still works fine but the screen isn't...

James

[pete_l]

Ruggedised or even semi-ruggedised laptops are very expensive but maybe that is what it takes.

Generally "ruggedised" is meant to indicate the lappy will take a few knocks and drops. It won't stand liquid ingress at any level and won't have an IP rating - where even the lowest level is a known killer of laptops.

Even the ruggedised jobs aren't necessarily that good. One place I worked had a lot of field engineers and come laptop replacement time a colleague was tasked with finding one that would at least stand a chance. One of the better (and crushingly expensive, something over £3k) Panasonics came in for review. It was claimed to withstand a 1m drop onto the floor, so needless to say "go on then" was the order of the day - it failed when dropped from half that height.

[Bizibilder]

Working in a school, as I do, I will be overjoyed when manufacturers make a teenager-proof laptop! We can then all buy one with complete confidence that it will survive anything an astronomer/the weather/acts of god etc can do to it!

[ollypenrice]

Working in a school, as I do, I will be overjoyed when manufacturers make a teenager-proof laptop! We can then all buy one with complete confidence that it will survive anything an astronomer/the weather/acts of god etc can do to it!

You couldn't make a one inch stainless steel sphere that a school couldn't destroy in less than a minute...

Back to the cold issue. The internet is in disarray on the matter, some sites saying cold is OK and some the reverse, like this one;

Any kind of exposure to the cold can cause damage to the hard drive which is a vital aspect in this computer. Damage to a hard drive can lead to inaccessibility to all data stored on the computer. It is important to have a backup file in case this happens. If a backup file is not available, there are data recovery services that may be able to help restore the lost data.

My friend Louise, the electronics writer, is in the southern hemisphere for a good while to come so I can't ask for her sources but she felt I was taking a risk storing laptops unused in sub zero conditions. The cosseting will continue while there is any doubt.

Batteries don't like the cold either.

Olly

[MikeWilson]

You couldn't make a one inch stainless steel sphere that a school couldn't destroy in less than a minute...

Back to the cold issue. The internet is in disarray on the matter, some sites saying cold is OK and some the reverse, like this one;

Any kind of exposure to the cold can cause damage to the hard drive which is a vital aspect in this computer. Damage to a hard drive can lead to inaccessibility to all data stored on the computer. It is important to have a backup file in case this happens. If a backup file is not available, there are data recovery services that may be able to help restore the lost data.[/I]

Hi Olly,

Thanks for finding that nugget. I wonder what "any kind" and what temperature is suggested? I use solid state hard drives in all my computers, including my astro laptop - largely because solid state drives draw less power AND have no moving parts. However if those parts are cold, presumably the only thing that could be negatively affected might be the lubrication in the moving parts on the drive? Perhaps when the drives get cold the lubrication gets more viscous and causes the drive to - temporarily - crash? Who knows..?

My friend Louise, the electronics writer, is in the southern hemisphere for a good while to come so I can't ask for her sources but she felt I was taking a risk storing laptops unused in sub zero conditions. The cosseting will continue while there is any doubt.

Batteries don't like the cold either.

That's a really good point - the batteries, particularly lithium cells - REALLY don't like the cold. There are a lot of sources available on the internet (commentary, blogs, articles and peer reviewed papers) which demonstrate how lithium batteries can lose capacity when abused with the cold like this.

I suppose the *Liquid*CD display could also freeze and crack too. But the electronics themselves are very resilient to the cold.

But the main enemy is moisture. Condensation and dew?

Clear skies,

Mike

[Stephen]

I suppose the *Liquid*CD display could also freeze and crack too. But the electronics themselves are very resilient to the cold.

But the main enemy is moisture. Condensation and dew?

Clear skies,

Mike

Off the top of my head, and LCD isn't actually a liquid. It's more like a paste or hybrid of liquid and solid.

It's good down to at least -13 degrees (Macbook stated minimum operating temperature.) Which means the reality is a lot lower before you even think about freezing.

You are correct though, it's the moisture that's the killer!

[Jessun]

Electronics generally like the cold, problems may arise when the circuits aren't yet up to min operating temperatures. An old fashion HDD has its mechanical issues of course! For instance a speck of dust on the drive - as seen by the read head - apparantly equals to a 50cm tall concrete block on the highway hit by a car... So they seal it :-)

Moisture is a killer though as currents appear where they shouldn't and corrosion eventually sets in.

[astromerlin]

Moisture is a killer though as currents appear where they shouldn't and corrosion eventually sets in.

Jumped out of my skin one morning when switching on a computer in my workshop, a loud bang and smoke and I discovered a large black hole in the electronics board of the harddrive.

As you say moisture is the killer, As long as you keep the temperature up enough to stop condensation forming inside the computer/laptop you shouldn't have a problem.

[ollypenrice]

OK, now sub minus 13C is certainly possible here. I can't remember anything below minus 19C but if there is a draft you get a wind chill. I don't know what parts of the computer might be at risk but until I know more I think I'll be careful.

Olly

[MikeWilson]

I wonder if anyone knows of an off-the-shelf pop-up laptop 'tent' or hard screen that is available for purchase?

Perhaps some budding entrepreneur might want to make one out of a few pieces of plastic and folding hinges? Ideal for keeping the dew from setting on and the light from the screen from disturbing other astronomers.

[iwatkins]

I wonder if anyone knows of an off-the-shelf pop-up laptop 'tent' or hard screen that is available for purchase?

Here: Lapdome Products

here: iCap - sun shade and protection for notebooks. Blocks sun and glare on the display and protects laptops against heat, rain, etc.

and here: Lastolite Ezyview (2492) - wex photographic

[ianaiken]

I use an old flight case, it's wooden with aluminium effect finish. I drilled holes in the side and put in grommets to pass cables through. When I am not active at the PC I just shut the lid and RDP from the house. So far never been too hot but I have not used this approach during the Summer.