"Go-Tos" For Beginners?

[Mr Q]

In my opinion, definitely NOT and here's why.

A friend of a friend of mine heard about our outings with my scope and binos. My friend liked looking at the planets and Moon and some of the brighter DSOs after I located them from memory and a little star-hopping. But he never showed a real interest in pursuing the hobby. His friend did and ran out and bought a compact scope with a "go-to" feature.

After a few weeks, he invited me and my friend to his house for a demonstration of his awesome scope. I agreed to the outing and brought my 10" newt, that I broke down and transported in the back seat of my full-sized car, just in case.

When I got there, I started setting up my scope -putting on the three "feet" to the pedestal and connecting the scope to the EQ mount. In 5 minuets, I was looking at some DSOs while the "go-to" guy was still aligning his scope to a guide star (Polaris). A half hour later he got done and punched in an object, then another, and another but couldn't see any of them (they were too faint for the observing conditions).

Meanwhile, we were enjoying several galaxies, PNs, OCs and GCs that I located easily from memory and a little star-hopping.

The "go-to" guy's stargazing ego was smashed by my continuous parade of DSOs without using any star charts, planishere or other locating aids - just a knowledge of the major constellations and a little star-hopping was all I used while recolecting where many objects were from past observations of them.

When the 'go-to' guy gave up on his scope, he joined us and asked why he couldn't see any of the objects he (his scope) pointed to. I politely explained about learning the basics - locating constellations, object size and visual magnitude, star-hopping - things any beginner should have a working knowledge of - and he then wondered if his scope was messed up in some way. I checked out a few objects and it had very good optics. Turns out the "go-to" device was now defective and useless.

In the end, he didn't want to take the time to learn basic observing skills like I did and ended up selling the scope a short time later - never to return to the hobby.

I always took my observing skills for granted over the years and now hated these go-to scopes - well, when in the hands of a beginner. Yes, they are nice for demonstrations at star parties and nice IF you don't have to rely on the locating device if it fails (and lots did back when they first emerged on the market) and can still locate DSOs by the "old school" method.

Bottom line - If you are new to the hobby, learn the basics while trying some DSO objects with a scope that requires YOUR aiming - not an electronic feature. These devices don't consider sky conditions, optimum magnification, etc., that are important things you have to know when observing the majority of DSOs, which are faint and elusive.

I hope this experience of mine with "go-to" scopes in the hands of a beginner keeps potential stargazers from having what happened to the beginner above and instead, enjoy a life long rewarding hobby.

Mr Q

[mr saddo]

yeah right on, ive had two go to`s and none have them went to, had many hours in freezing cold last year, bought a small dob, in end, and can move it quickly all over the sky. You have to learn the sky,there no short cuts.

[Ad Astra]

Absolutely agree with you on everything you've said. GoTo scopes are really nice -- if you are already an experienced observer. If not, you should start with a Dob (or a manual EQ mount) and learn the sky!

We have three GoTo's (all Celestron) and my students wonder why we don't use them more often. The alignment issue is the problem every time. When we use a GoTo (hi mag viewing of Saturn or Jupiter or Luna are the usual targets), I have to get to the lab site half an hour before everyone else to set up and align. There is no way I can set up and align a scope while all the kids are pulling on my sleve saying "I've lost the Moon again, Professor!"

Years when I don't have a competent lab aide to help out - we don't use the computerized stuff much at all. It is just WAAAAY more trouble than it is worth.

Dan

[Orion_the_Hunter]

Well said Mr Q.

Apart from observing objects, my favorite 'thing' to do with my Dob is to scan around the sky and see what I can see.

[Veracocha]

I don't totally agree, you don't "have to learn the sky", nice if you have the experience but it's not a pre-requisite of stargazing. I am on my 6th Goto scope and accuracy is just fine - when you take time to get it right. This builds experience without becoming frustrated and I expect I would have knocked it on the head if much of my limited time was spent trying to find my target. What the op actually compared was a beginner with a compact scope (faulty) with a more experienced person with a 10" newt.

[twotter]

I wonder what the collective noun is for astronomical luddites?

Sounds more like an ego trip for you than anything else, but congratulations on showing off your 'superior' skills to a beginner to the hobby...

Now please allow me some time to put away this technical monstrosity I'm using to peruse this forum and I'll go and dig out my old school slate and worn stub of chalk.

[Tinker1947]

I started with a Mead LT-6 used the Go-To and it worked well couple of minutes to setup it s accurate and easy to use, Brought a 10" Skywatcher and NEQ6 Pro i have never used the Go-To i don't get to find as much but the buzz when i do and the knowledge learnt from using Stelleruim and finding something will keep me in the hobby for a long time to come.

[Mr Q]

Thanks for the comments. Aside from using a go-to at a public demonstration to give people their first look at a celestial object, I wonder if anyone out there has any other positive uses of a go-to. I would have thought of a classroom use but from the above post, now I wonder if there is any.

Maybe it's like calculators in schools - just punch in numbers and trust what the device spits out for an answer without actually learning even basic math.

Thankfully, there are sites like this one where a beginner can get useful information that promotes the hobby instead of learning by trial and error, which, I bet, resulted in lots of people leaving the hobby before starting to really enjoy it. I learned by reading books and magazines, since I knew no one that was into the hobby and computers didn't exist. Luckily I kept with it over many years and feel good to have a resource like SGL to share my experiences with those just starting out, as lots of others on this forum do.

Thanks so much to the people behind the scenes with this site - without such a resource, many potential amateurs would not be as lucky as I was having to learn the basics on my own and remaining active in such a rewarding hobby.

[Donkeiller]

It takes me 2-3mins to align my goto, then I'm away.

Believe you me when you live in the middle of a city, you need goto.

Each to their own.

[John]

The GOTO / non-GOTO debates always seem to stir up some strong feelings !

My concern about GOTO's when starting out in the hobby is more that the typical budgets people are prepared to invest in a new hobby (understandably) often mean that, when the GOTO mount is paid for, there is little left for the optics which are what actually deliver the views of course. It must be quite frustrating to think that your scope is pointing at an interesting astro object but your optics don't have the aperture to actually enable you to see it !

[Donkeiller]

Thanks for the comments. Aside from using a go-to at a public demonstration to give people their first look at a celestial object, I wonder if anyone out there has any other positive uses of a go-to. I would have thought of a classroom use but from the above post, now I wonder if there is any.

Maybe it's like calculators in schools - just punch in numbers and trust what the device spits out for an answer without actually learning even basic math.

Thankfully, there are sites like this one where a beginner can get useful information that promotes the hobby instead of learning by trial and error, which, I bet, resulted in lots of people leaving the hobby before starting to really enjoy it. I learned by reading books and magazines, since I knew no one that was into the hobby and computers didn't exist. Luckily I kept with it over many years and feel good to have a resource like SGL to share my experiences with those just starting out, as lots of others on this forum do.

Thanks so much to the people behind the scenes with this site - without such a resource, many potential amateurs would not be as lucky as I was having to learn the basics on my own and remaining active in such a rewarding hobby.

Actually I find goto is helping me learn the sky.

Personally I find actually observing is more fun that searching fruitlessly in ornage skies.

If we all followed your philosophy we would all be required to reinvent the wheel every time we actaually wanted to use it.

No thanks.

[Donkeiller]

I wonder what the collective noun is for astronomical luddites?

Sounds more like an ego trip for you than anything else, but congratulations on showing off your 'superior' skills to a beginner to the hobby...

Now please allow me some time to put away this technical monstrosity I'm using to peruse this forum and I'll go and dig out my old school slate and worn stub of chalk.

Well said:)

[Mr Q]

I wonder what the collective noun is for astronomical luddites?

Sounds more like an ego trip for you than anything else, but congratulations on showing off your 'superior' skills to a beginner to the hobby...

Now please allow me some time to put away this technical monstrosity I'm using to peruse this forum and I'll go and dig out my old school slate and worn stub of chalk.

Believe me, it wasn't an ego trip on my part. My intentions were to have a pleasant night observing and with the numerous complaints of users of go-to scopes at the time, that's why I brought my scope. Unfortunately, I tried leading the horse to the water but couldn't make him drink:headbang:

[CJBooth]

I just bought a 300P Auto, opting for that over a 250PX goto. I want to learn to find things to look at, so for me (at the moment) a goto thing would make it too easy (I will always take short-cuts of they are available).

I'm really enjoying the challenge.

[Veracocha]

Surely with goto you can elect to use the system or not, you are not forced to punch in the destination.

[Mr Q]

Surely with goto you can elect to use the system or not, you are not forced to punch in the destination.

True but if the user has no experience in locating objects in any other way, as is the case with some beginners, what else could they do but give up? The thread refers to beginners, not anyone with even a basic knowledge of the night sky.

[CJBooth]

Surely with goto you can elect to use the system or not, you are not forced to punch in the destination.

True... Trouble for me is, I'd be too tempted to use it. If I rely on the technology I'll never learn to find these things myself. The solution, buy Auto instead of Goto.

Each to their own. Some people will be happy with observing, I personally get great satisfaction from finding and observing. A hobby is what you make of it.

[Veracocha]

True but if the user has no experience in locating objects in any other way, as is the case with some beginners, what else could they do but give up? The thread refers to beginners, not anyone with even a basic knowledge of the night sky.

The answer to this is simple, switch goto on!

[Daz1974]

Absolutely disagree.

I'm a beginner, have a limited knowledge of the sky and still getting used to what is up there. I got my goto in October, and it has helped me learn my way around. OK setting up take a little longer than a dob, but to be honest its not a massive chore. In fact, evening using the alignment processes have helped in learning.

Alignment is getting better and more accurate with more experience I get and even though Ive only had 3 or 4 sessions with it in the month ive had it I feel it has been a useful accessory in my education.

[Veracocha]

That's how I saw it Daz when I started earlier this year.

[brantuk]

I have to admit - I learned more about the sky with my old manual 150P/EQ3-2 and a lot of reading and observing than I ever did with goto scopes. After all - you have to know what to "goto" to use it and what to expect to see and what ep's to use.

You also have to know how to set up and align with accuracy in order to use them and as stated above - a lot of well meaning newbies with cash to burn don't get the same value out of them and give up quick.

But they do have their place in this lovely hobby. Public demos are a good example as stated above - in the hands of a knowledgable astronomer you can display many objects in a short space of time. For imagers they're pretty essential for the mount feedback loop used in guiding and the speed of locating and tracking objects.

Both manual and goto have their place - but I still can't work out how my mate could find stuff with his 16" dob, wixey, and az setting circle quicker than I could with a handset lol

[gary1968]

Thanks for the comments. Aside from using a go-to at a public demonstration to give people their first look at a celestial object, I wonder if anyone out there has any other positive uses of a go-to. I would have thought of a classroom use but from the above post, now I wonder if there is any.

One reason I find for goto is when imaging. I use EQMod with my HEQ5 Pro, I point and click an object on screen, the scope slews to that object then I can be quickly and accurately imaging the object....... Why dont I use the 'old fashioned' method, simples, usually the object is not visible even when using my 8" newt. Without goto I would not be able to image most of the objects I do....

Just my 2p worth!

Gary

[RikM]

I use a GoTo mount for imaging and a manual dob for observing. The GoTo is invaluable for locating objects that are not visible in normal viewing but show on images only.

I don't really agree that a manual scope is that much faster than a GoTo because the optics still take an hour to cool down which ever scope you use. Today I am typing this while the Dob cools down outside. On an imaging night, I would be polar aligning and setting the guiding. Swings and roundabouts for me.

As a beginner following advice from this forum and Steve at FLO I put my initial investment into the optics with a driven non-goto mount and learned the sky first. I am glad that I did, because now I know what to do when the GoTo doesn't, not that that happens very often. It has been very reliable so far.

[pastiche]

I bought my GoTo about 4 years ago and find that although I used it in the early days I rarely turn it on now.

I have to say that in the early days I would not have been without it and then I found that as time went on it was actually teaching me to find my way around. There is nothing like experience, so just use the GoTo as an aid to learning and not as just a lazy way to find things.

That's what worked for me anyway...

[Andymac79]

I dont see what it matters, either way if you want to see the night sky, I say go use whatever you can or indeed takes your fancy. GOTO, skyscan, blah blah blah..... All a means to a very enjoyable end

Andy