What drives the prices on some astro equipment?

[blusky]

Perhaps, and more precisely, who? Me and you? £60 for several not-so-high-precision bits of anodised aluminium called a camera clamp cannot be deemed reasonable, even during these times of exaggerated consumerism.

[Muphrid]

It's what the manufacturer/distributor/retailer thinks they can get away with. Astronomy, like photography, is perceived as a hobby for those who have a decent amount of surplus cash, so prices are high.

In the past, I have wanted a minor piece of kit for my photography and found a similar bit of kit in a fishing tackle shop for less than half the price.

Look at the price of Swarovski and Leica binoculars - I have tried binoculars at £300 that are almost as good, certainly the Swarovski and Leicas are not £1500 better! And don't quote after sales service - while Swarovski are outstanding, Leica (as I found out recently when wanting an cracked eyecup replaced) is non-existent.

[Macavity]

If you have ANY inclination to adventure - Enhancing or modifying your setup, buying "sundries & ancillaries", can surprisingly and quickly dent your bank balance.

The small stuff is sometimes overpriced, but the BIG stuff (complete systems) can be surprisingly cheap? Many people just buy (sell on) a "telescope" in the much same way they would any "household item" these days. They are the MAIN targeted market, not the (us?) "Astro Fred Dibnahs".

Electronics has it's own issues. Someone recently provided some illumination on this: It's the old "'elf and safety" thing? Sticking a "CE mark" on your stuff - Guaranteeing you're not going to "electrocute" the unwary or unwise costs a lot of money?

[Stephen]

There are two issues I see here.

First of all, there is little demand for specialised astro (like clamps.) This means invariably a small manufacturer only purchases parts to order, or in low volume., or rents the machinery required in small time chunks. This costs a lot more hence pushes the price up.

Secondly bulk production is ineffective. If you are running a business, you can't afford to have all your money tied up in kit in the shed that isn't selling to people. The camera clamp that you mentioned might sell no more than 10 a year. It's not exactly effective to make 100 to save on production costs then.

Now the staples / big things like mount / tubes that can be made in sweat shops in china for 20p and a packet of crisps, they can afford to be sold cheaply as they are almost guaranteed to sell, even if it's only to a relatively small market.

Just my 2p

[themos]

£60 for several not-so-high-precision bits of anodised aluminium called a camera clamp cannot be deemed reasonable,

I kind of instinctively agree but then I think how much time it would take me to make the same thing, source the materials, learn from mistakes and it doesn't seem so bad.

[steelfixer]

As the owner of a small indipendant company who manufactures all types of goods including astro related products can I point out it is not just the cost of materials and time.

The cost of things like rent and rates on the building I use just keeps going up and up year on year.

One day the local council might just realise they are killing the small businesses with thier ever increasing business rates but by then it will probbably be to late.

The ever increasing cost of Electricity to run the machines that make this stuff not to mention the cost of tooling, coolants and well the list goes on and on.

The actual profit I make per item is so small you would not believe it in fact I very much doubt most people would even get out of bed for the amount of money I make.

So please spare a thought for folks like me who work an avarage of 70 to 80 hours a week to manufacture the products you need.

It is not us that defines the final price you pay in the shops.

thanks

Graham

[wrinkly]

Oh come on, Steelfixer.

Come clean and tell us that all your machine tools were donated by the manufacturers who also service and repair them purely out of the goodness of their souls.:D

[magic612]

Perhaps, and more precisely, who? Me and you?

In a word, yes. Telescopes, tripods, mounts and eyepieces are generally the "loss leaders" of this industry, is the way I understand it. Very little profit margin, higher volumes (if you can consider the entire astro community a "high volume" market!).

Now you want a camera clamp? Yeah, not such a large market. Lower quantity, more money required. It isn't so much "mass produced" now as it is a short run (maybe VERY short run) of a product that doesn't sell all that often. So yes, it will cost more, because fewer "me's and you's" are buying them.

I have, on several occasions, contemplated making a number of astronomy products - sometimes for sale, other times just because it was something I needed but didn't want to spend the "retail" money on it (I am somewhat handy with tools and such). With the exception of tripods (I've made all of my tripods and piers myself), it has rarely been worth it from a financial perspective to make most astro items anymore. Even making a telescope - which used to be the frugal way to get large aperture - usually costs more to make one from "scratch" as opposed to buying one new.

They really are fairly inexpensive, overall. And given the low profit margins on the scopes, retailers do need to make that margin up somewhere, so those other items get marked up more. If they weren't making money, they wouldn't even be in business for us to purchase products from for the things we do want and need (and can't make at home).

[spaceboy]

There are two issues I see here.

First of all, there is little demand for specialised astro (like clamps.) This means invariably a small manufacturer only purchases parts to order, or in low volume., or rents the machinery required in small time chunks. This costs a lot more hence pushes the price up.

Secondly bulk production is ineffective. If you are running a business, you can't afford to have all your money tied up in kit in the shed that isn't selling to people. The camera clamp that you mentioned might sell no more than 10 a year. It's not exactly effective to make 100 to save on production costs then.

Now the staples / big things like mount / tubes that can be made in sweat shops in china for 20p and a packet of crisps, they can afford to be sold cheaply as they are almost guaranteed to sell, even if it's only to a relatively small market.

Just my 2p

Ditto

[johninderby]

I've thought of producing some astro items myself but decided not to. I'd basically be on a hiding to nothing. Unless you've actually looked into this sort of thing in detail and costed it out you simply wouldn't believe how expensive it is to produce specialist items with only limited sales potential.

I'm sure people have seen say a little specialist bracket or something similar selling for £49.95 and thought what a ripoff and wouldn't believe it if someone told them the guy making it is probably making £2.00 or £3.00 profit. And if you think that's exaggerating things there's plenty of people out there who know it's no exaggeration.

John

[x6gas]

There are two issues I see here.

First of all, there is little demand for specialised astro (like clamps.) This means invariably a small manufacturer only purchases parts to order, or in low volume., or rents the machinery required in small time chunks. This costs a lot more hence pushes the price up.

Secondly bulk production is ineffective. If you are running a business, you can't afford to have all your money tied up in kit in the shed that isn't selling to people. The camera clamp that you mentioned might sell no more than 10 a year. It's not exactly effective to make 100 to save on production costs then.

Now the staples / big things like mount / tubes that can be made in sweat shops in china for 20p and a packet of crisps, they can afford to be sold cheaply as they are almost guaranteed to sell, even if it's only to a relatively small market.

Just my 2p

Completely agree. We are into a niche hobby and there is surprisingly little standardization (possibly deliberately) and so the economies of scale just aren't there.

I think that there is a justifiable complaint about the price differential between the USA and Europe (for goods often originating in the far East) but 20 quid for a piece of anodized machined metal with thread A on one side and thread B on the other is expensive until you try to have manufactured a one off yourself...

[Sparrow]

It's because of prices that I have applied some home made solutions to this hobby - bracketing made from left over aluminium from our old conservatory roof, home made dew heater and controller - it cost a fraction of a retail one to make. Home made Bahtinov mask from card. I also made an equatorial wedge for my previous Alt Az mount scope out of MDF and old barbecue metal bracklets. Home made electric 2 speed focusser for my previous scope - it was very Heath Robinson but it worked perfectly.

An expensive hobby but there are ways to save with a little effort.

[Steve]

What drives the prices on some astro equipment?

Probably the usual stuff like materials, machinary, tools and labour costs together with overheads like rent, repairs, supplies, taxes, telephone bills, travel, utilities, book-keeping, accounting fees, advertising, depreciation, insurance, interest, legal fees... And of course the need to make a profit. Your wife and children would probably protest if you forgot that last bit.

Clearly it can be a lot cheaper if you make it yourself and don't put a high value on your time. And if you enjoy a spot of diy then credit to you

HTH

[hunterknox]

Always surprises me that people choose to complain about the price of things rather than seizing the opportunity to exploit an obviously hungry market .

Seriously though, what Macavity, Johninderby and Steelfixer said is spot on.

[great_bear]

I made my Mak 180 Dew Shield from a silver-card gift bag in the Kelling Heath shop, during a star party. I later improved it by lining it with stiff black paper and sticky tape. If however, I was to make one for *you* out of the same materials, taking the same amount of time, to make it worthwhile I'd have to charge about twice the price of the pre-made "posh" ones in the astronomy shops

I have a mobile phone on my desk. It cost several thousand pounds

But that's because it's a prototype! By the time it's been revised and gone into mass production and into the shops, it'll cost about the same as any other similarly specified phone. If we sell enough of them, then the cost of all those prototypes will be recouped - but if not...

There are many other great products that could be made but aren't - simply because it's not possible to make them at a price people would be willing to pay. At the end of the day, things cost what they cost. Only when you realise that you can sell it for significantly more than it cost you to build it, do you get that thing called "opportunity" Just because something's pricey, doesn't mean it's a rip-off.