Give me some good resons why I don't need a GOTO.....

[Whippy]

So my wife's watching me get slowly more frustrated about not finding faint-ish objects in the sky. She keeps telling me "get that GOTO upgrade for the mount". I keep telling her "Yeah, but I'd rather learn the sky and learn to star-hop, it'll be better in the long run etc etc". She replies "All well and good but I see you coming in annoyed, spend the cash and it'll make both of us happy". She does have point, I'm not the most patient of people, but I have some self-discipline..

I'm determined to do it the hard way and learn the sky, but it is frustrating! Not only that, I've spent plenty of cash on astro gear recently and I don't fancy spending another £400 on GOTO.

So come on, tell me I'm right and save me some cash!

[trudie]

I'm not going to persuade you one way or the other, i am in exactly the same position, have a HEQ5, but no GO-TO.

Like you I would like to find my way around under my own steam. I have set myself a target of 1 thing in the sky each time I go out ( if poss). But it is looking increasing like I may be asking for GO-TO for my birthday. That way i won't feel so guilty about the extra cash.

Having said all that I refuse to admit defeat just yet.

Good luck whatever you decide.

trudie

[Astronut]

I have to say you have a supporting and understanding wife there

Having never used a goto mount yet, I can't really comment on them but your attitude of wanting to learn your way around is commendable. Yes, it's frustrating but don't get too downhearted.

It would be cheaper to invest in decent star maps as an aid to starhopping (W.Tirion SkyAtlas 2000.0 is excellent - it's the only printed atlas I have but there may be better ones available these days).

PC planetarium software like Redshift 5 is very good too (well I like it - very user friendly) but most folks on here (and elsewhere) favour 'Starry Night' - I may invest in Starry Night myself one day having read so much about it.

[geppetto]

I don't have goto but purely a cost thing.

Get it if you can afford it, some way down the line you might want to

image some DSO's that are too dim for you to see and you will then

have to rely on goto to setup on target.

[blinky]

I am also in the same boat, I am finding it increasingly frustrating that I cannot find anything. I am useless at the star hoping bit and it is just starting to make me not want to go out. Unfortunatly I cannot afford an HEQ5 or EQ6

[barkis]

"Now then young man", as Brian Clough used to say, as precurser to giving a lecture to one of his proteges.

Of course it is not essential to have a Goto, it's merely a refinement to a system that will save time. And since we live in an age when everything seems to have a hurry requirement, it does not seem out of place in that context.

Will it enhance your Knowledge of object location? yes it will, but only if you take the time to log in your mind, the position of an object you can't see with your naked eye, in relation to stars surrounding it. This is a long process, but if you are determined, and dedicated, then it can be done, and some have done it. When you trot of into a dark site at some time in the future, and you are showing a group of kids, people, Womens Institute members, or whatever, the wonders of the night sky, and for whatever reason, the Goto isn't, then the knowledge you have acquired in object location, suddenly becomes very precious, and might I add, very impressive.

If you are young, then you will have plenty of time to learn the star hopping technique to find deep sky targets. So go for it, I admire your determination to avoid an unnecessary payment. The first lesson to learn, is, do not take your frustrations out on your good lady, it's not her fault. You have to bear all the responsibility. It will be slow, but it will be sure. Before you know it, you will have earned the title of.

Outlash, Cosmic Navigator Supreme.

Ron.

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

I'm putting in my two penn'orth, but I have to own up and say that I've never not had goto.

I went for goto as I had no idea how to find stuff and I'm the type of person who uses a satnav to visit my mother, go home etc. I just like the toys a lot.

WRT not being able to see things, I was that man. I had the goto all set up, three star alignment, goto a Messier (M81 was first) and peer down the hole. Nothing there. Nada. Utter frustration with the goto not going where it should, until I stuck the DSLR in the hole and did a 30 second snap. There, right in the middle of the orange carp was a galaxy. A great big, beautiful, spirally galaxy. Tried again with the looking down the hole thing, but I couldn't see anything, not even a fuzzy dim blur. On M31, I could see the core and on M13 I could see a whole nest of stars like a lump of frogspawn. The goto was obviously working but I can't see anything from my backyard location due to light pollution.

My life would have been a misery without goto and I wouldn't be here today as I'd have packed it in and decided that the Newt. was rubbish and a waste of money.

Make of this what you will, but I'm having fun now and I know that I wouldn't be without the goto.

Captain Chaos

[CELESCOPE]

well i spent years without a GO-TO system .taking me months sometimes to find a target , this was because mainly the weather where seeing was not good enogh to show me the subject , hence leading me down a false road thinking i did,nt have the target in view, yes i did learn about the sky ,and to a point i enjoyed it, but then my thoughts turned to imaging, oh boy like looking for a needle in a haystack, without a doubt , going to a go to was the best move i done , within mins i was seeing things that would have taken along while , now i have moved on to very faint DSO work , even with a go to you have to do a fee exposures to make sure you have the target in frame , so my answer is , for viewing , stick with what you have, if thinking of imaging , then a GO-TO, you need the subject in mins for imaging not waste time shearching for it,

ROG

[proflight2000]

Well I have just agreed a buy for a goto for my HEQ, to be honest they are a lot like captains reasons, I want to learn to photograph as well and my eyesight is getting pretty bad now so I am hoping to kill two birds with one stone. I think as someone has said, as long as you also grab the places where you find things in your mind then that is a way forwards.

Seeing as now almost every major scope on the planet has a goto system its just hopping along with technology.

[Whippy]

"Now then young man", as Brian Clough used to say, as precurser to giving a lecture to one of his proteges.

Of course it is not essential to have a Goto, it's merely a refinement to a system that will save time. And since we live in an age when everything seems to have a hurry requirement, it does not seem out of place in that context.

Will it enhance your Knowledge of object location? yes it will, but only if you take the time to log in your mind, the position of an object you can't see with your naked eye, in relation to stars surrounding it. This is a long process, but if you are determined, and dedicated, then it can be done, and some have done it. When you trot of into a dark site at some time in the future, and you are showing a group of kids, people, Womens Institute members, or whatever, the wonders of the night sky, and for whatever reason, the Goto isn't, then the knowledge you have acquired in object location, suddenly becomes very precious, and might I add, very impressive.

If you are young, then you will have plenty of time to learn the star hopping technique to find deep sky targets. So go for it, I admire your determination to avoid an unnecessary payment. The first lesson to learn, is, do not take your frustrations out on your good lady, it's not her fault. You have to bear all the responsibility. It will be slow, but it will be sure. Before you know it, you will have earned the title of.

Outlash, Cosmic Navigator Supreme.

Ron.

As soon as I read the Brian Clough quote, I heard his voice in my head . Bless him.

Ah, decisions, decisions. And going by people's opinons here, I'm still not sure. Do I have time? Well I'm 33 so in a long term sense, I've got a few mils of tread left on the tyres. But as I'm a house husband, I certainly can't do all night sessions as I have to be up with my boys at 6.30-7.00 so midnight is a late night for me and so 2-3 hours a night are about it (Summer is a real pain). Are my skies good? Well I haven't got anywhere else to compare them to, I would call last night an average/good moonless night and I can see stars down to about mag. 3.5-4 Bad? Good? I dunno, but when I can't even find M81/82 using Turn Left At Orion's directions, it either doesn't say much for my skills or their blatantly lying about the skies they observed them in (and a 3" scope?!?!!). I know quite a few constellations and the odd bright object (Planets, Orion Nebula, Pleades etc etc) so it's not like I just go out there and go erm...In the long term I do want to get into photography and then GOTO would be a probable must. Do I want to be Cosmic Navigator Supreme? I probably was in my drug addled youth but I'm managing to impress my family with "See those stars there? Thats Leo etc etc".. WI members? Only if they're under 40 . But I do like the idea of just going out there, setting up, aligning the mount and off you go. Is it worth £400 though? Ah...

[barkis]

Well, I half, no, fully expected to be out voted on the goto or not to goto. I can understand that most goto officianados would rather have it than not, simply for the reasons that they explained. CC and Rog. are avid a

nd accomplished imagers, and do not want to waste precious sky time looking for objects that can readily be accessed via computer. That takes the goto into the realm of natural progression.

Anyone who is not into imaging, who wants to educate him/herself on the sky, should try to do it without the aid of goto.

Once reasonably adept at finding objects, and harbouring thoughts of imaging, then by all means consider a goto.

I have known a fair number of would be astronomers who spent large sums on equipment expecting skill to be acquired overnight. When it failed to happen, they faded out of sight never to be seen again. This hobby should never be entered into on a whim. It is potentially a very expensive pastime, and one needs to be certain that it is for them.

Find M81/M82 ? Take a straight line from Gamma through Alpha Ursa Major slightly longer than their seperation, with a low power eyepiece, do a gentle spiral search and you will find both objects. Getting both in the same field will depend on the f/length and power of your E/P.

If your beloved is sanctioning the goto, then you are in a great position to dwell on it for as long as you wish. It is when there is a categoric NO! toys get more desirable.

By the way, I wonder what happened to setting circles. I had them on my 12" Newt. and never failed to find anything.

Mind you, I was using direct indexing, so that helped a lot.

Cheers. Ron.

[GazOC]

I quite agree Ron, 'the thrill is in the chase' and all that!!

Whats 'direct indexing' BTW?

[Whippy]

Oh, I know roughly where objects are in the sky, I can certainly point them out in relation to a star map, but finding them in the er, finder is another case entirely.

Another 2 hours out in the garden, another 2 hours looking at nothing but stars. Pretty, but not what I was after. Bah. I'm off to bed.

[Tinkerbell]

I have GO-TO on my two mounts and use it to full advantage but i also have access to a 12" DOB which is an eye opener with regards to finding stuff. I think I know a bit about finding things in the sky but I have found out I know not a lot. Someone timed me the other night while trying to find 5 objects with the DOB and I thought I had done quite well. 64 minutes it took me to find them, 64 adventure filled, aggravating, interesting minutes. I didn't realise it would take me that long but I enjoyed it. So much for knowing the sky .

One minute eighteen seconds using the GO-TO if anyone is interested :shock:

[magician]

I have GoTo on both the Meade and Skywatcher,in my defence all I can say is I wouldn't go back to starting my car with cranking handle!and dont forget, you can turn it off at any time you wish.

Cheers Frank

" It doesn't mean your'e not a nice person" (Quote, Rod Steiger)

[Kai]

I decided to GoTO because i am lazy.

I get so little time looking outside that i decided to make the most of my observing/imaging time it was the way to go.

In the future i am planing on getting a large dob (poss 16 inch +) to enjoy some visual treats,hopefully by then i will be able to find them after noting where my goto has been pointing previously.

[Macavity]

Preference? One man's "interesting challenge" is another man's vexation! Principally, I am influenced my lack of a "conducive" observing site. That and poor skies make star hopping (for me) frustrating. Did I get a "Go-To"? NO, I "instrumented" an Alt-Az (O.K it's really an EQ3-2!) mount with Azimuth circle and added a digital level for Altitude. With a bit of care, I can set to ~1 Deg in the former and ~0.2 Deg in the latter. Brings most things into 9x50 RACI field. (My interests are mainly double stars and clusters, so I can SEE most of them, in the finder anyway). Does make me wonder though: Although rarely mentioned in a positive way, I tentatively suggest that patient & careful alignment and use of SETTING CIRCLES might pay some (unexpected) dividends?

[magician]

Dont forget whenever you consult a star atlas,etc., you are consulting a 'How-to GoTo'

PS The 'Thrill of the chase wears thin as your fingers and toes get colder Cheers Frank

[Whippy]

Well after much discussion with the financial controller, it seems we're going for a complete change of tack. We're going to sell the skyliner and mount and going to buy a Celestron C8N GT, to be honest, it's a no-brainer where she gets the GOTO that'll keep her happy, I still get a scope with half decent aparture and with any luck, time we sell those bits we won't out of pocket hardly at all instead of shelling out another 400 notes on a GOTO upgrade for the HEQ5. And as someone's already pointed out, I can always turn the GOTO off if I want to..

Damm Women's logic!!!

Expect a couple of clasifieds soon..

[barkis]

I quite agree Ron, 'the thrill is in the chase' and all that!!

Whats 'direct indexing' BTW?

It is when the RA circle turns in unison with the drive. There is a fixed pointer on the polar shaft, two, if it is a German equatorial, one for the West side of the mount, the other for the East side. The Ra circle is prevented from turning whilst slewing the telescope manually.

This system is more easily adapted to a scope with a worm and wheel drive. It is a very good way of finding anything in the sky.

There can be a fixed pointer also, on your local meridian line. (This one never moves of course). The hours and minutes printed or engraved on the circle, increase in time from West to East as your scope is driving. Start your drive going. Look for a star of known Right Ascension. Turn your RA circle to coincide with the hour and minute of that star, using one of the pointers on the polar shaft it will depend on which side of the mount you are, as to which one you use. Make sure your declination Circle is reading the correct altitude of the star in degrees = or -.

As long as the drive is left switched on. your circle is turning at the rate of the star, and is effectively acting as a sidereal clock. You can now locate any object of known RA and Declination, simply by slewing the scope around until the pointer you used for the setting of the circle, points to the RA of the object you want to find, having set the Declination too.

This sounds a bit mushy, but it is easier to demonstrate than describe. Needless to say, larger setting circles are much preferred to smaller ones.

Mine were 10" Diameter, which made for fairly accurate positioning. Of course a lot of time was also spent setting my polar axis. Levelling the mount, and all the other little anomalies that had to be ironed out in order to make it as near perfect as I could get it.

It was no where near as expensive as a goto, but you know what?, it really worked. And I also learned the RA and Dec. of many targets by name. So much so, I didn't need the Nortons Atlas for quite a few of them.

I often have a sad reflection on my old observatory, I spent some wonderful nights in there, and I often wish I had not taken it down.

A lot of the neighbours also lamented on it's demise, some of the said they always felt safer with it there, thinking my presence inside late night early morning would be a deterrent to the bogey men. I try to believe they were right.

There you are Gaz, hardly in a nutshell, but you did ask.

Cheers Ron.

[GazOC]

Thanks for the reply Ron. I've only ever used my circles a couple of times just satisfy myself I understood the principle. I used to find a star close by an object, set the circles and then adjust to the object., it seemed a lot of work when compared to star hopping so I never really 'got into it' properly.

BTW what made you take your observatory down? Sounds like you had a nice set up....

[barkis]

Thanks for the reply Ron. I've only ever used my circles a couple of times just satisfy myself I understood the principle. I used to find a star close by an object, set the circles and then adjust to the object., it seemed a lot of work when compared to star hopping so I never really 'got into it' properly.

BTW what made you take your observatory down? Sounds like you had a nice set up....

It was great for me Gaz, anyone who has their own Ob. be it dome or run off, will be a lot happier in their work. A dome wins because of the almost complete enclosure. People often remarked to me about turbulence that would rush out through the slit. Well, it was never a problem for me. I half expect some of those thought I had an electric fire or something to keep me warm. Sorry, a dome must be at the same temperature as the outside or there will be a movement of air.

Anyway Gaz, I am just about to post a collage of a few pics showing the Ob on it. Not the prettiest of sights, but it served its purpose.

Ron.

[GazOC]

Hell of nice set up Ron!!

[geoff_k]

I never used to have Go-to, but now I wouldn't be without it. Time is the main factor. Been able to do lots of observing this month, but in the months before that, I was lucky to get out for more than one or two nights.

You don't want to spend what little time you have throwing your toys out of the pram because you can't find something.

However ....

Go-to is no substitute for knowledge of the skies and doesn't guarantee that you will always find what you are looking for. Also Go-to systems are notoriously badly-behaved. There are certainly many times that I turn if off as you mustn't forget that technology can get in the way of the important thing - looking at the sky.

Geoff

[barkis]

I never used to have Go-to, but now I wouldn't be without it. Time is the main factor. Been able to do lots of observing this month, but in the months before that, I was lucky to get out for more than one or two nights.

You don't want to spend what little time you have throwing your toys out of the pram because you can't find something.

However ....

Go-to is no substitute for knowledge of the skies and doesn't guarantee that you will always find what you are looking for. Also Go-to systems are notoriously badly-behaved. There are certainly many times that I turn if off as you mustn't forget that technology can get in the way of the important thing - looking at the sky.

Geoff

I agree with you totally Geoff. The main crux of owning a telescope has to be to explore the sky as much as your instrument will allow.

Lord knows light pollution has put the mockers on a lot of city dwellers ever seeing the milky way in all it's glory, never ming finding a faint galaxy in your eyepiece.

I am not against technological enhancements in any field, and Astronomy is one area where it has allowed giant leaps to be made.

The amateur now is producing images of a quality that were once only seen in the professionals domain. One sees apt evidence of that on this site.That has to be a good thing So no, I am not by any stretch of the imagination anti Goto, in fact I have a Meade LX90 12" Equatorially mounted scope. I have not used it once as yet. I will do so eventually, probably when I have made myself a permanent home for it, as I don't regard it as portable at my age.

I do get a kick out of putting it through it's paces indoors via the Starry Night Astro Suite on my laptop.

Ron.