Gina's Observatory

[yesyes]

One possibility would be not to build a warm room in the beginning. Just the scope room and external runners for the roll off roof. Then later you could build the warm room under these runners when you wallet has recovered...

[Gina]

One possibility would be not to build a warm room in the beginning. Just the scope room and external runners for the roll off roof. Then later you could build the warm room under these runners when you wallet has recovered...

Thank you for your suggestion Yes, I thought of that but then the current dividing wall would become an outside wall. And the external runners would need bracing for sideways support. They are not high enough to allow a framework you could walk under. As I said, the whole design concept relies on the warm room as part of the mechanical structure of the roll off system.

[Astrokev]

As for doing away with the warm room, two problems with that. The design relies on the side walls of the warm room for support and I really want to have a PC or two close to the scope/webcam. The obsy part wont be warm/dry enough for computers IMO. Another possibility would be to reduce the size of the warm room to 7x4ft rather than 7x6ft. I reckon that would be big enough.

I think YesYes's suggestion has merit but I accept it would require some redesign (but then again - you're quite good at that !).

Bracing the rails wouldn't be that difficult using angled cross-pieces across the corners. The rails could remain at your current design height so you can still have a drop-down wall, and the warm-room could be retro-fitted.

Alternatively, I'm sure some folks have made warm-rooms only 3ft wide and found them OK. Consider reducing the obsy footprint also?

[Digz]

Can you not run some networking back to your house to avoid the need for a pc in a warm room? I'm not sure how technically feasible that is let alone individual site constraints. Another option which might save some money is to make a small container for a pc so it can be sat in the obsy and feed photos back to a pc in the house.

Just a couple of ideas for thought.

[Gina]

I think YesYes's suggestion has merit but I accept it would require some redesign (but then again - you're quite good at that !).

Yes, it would be possible to use the current warm room end wall design and build it out to fit where the dividing wall would go. It's not impossible.

Bracing the rails wouldn't be that difficult using angled cross-pieces across the corners. The rails could remain at your current design height so you can still have a drop-down wall, and the warm-room could be retro-fitted.

I dare say I could work something out

Consider reducing the obsy footprint also?

Yes, another possibility.

I'll be considering all these ideas in the next few days.

I've looked into the cost of a bank loan. Standard loans are for 12 months or longer. Cost of a loan of £1000 over 12 months would be £85. I might ask personally at the bank next time I'm in town to see if I could get a shorter term loan at a lower overall cost. I think £85 is rather a lot, though not a bad APR admittedly.

Of course, a credit card can provide a short term loan at something like 2% an month interest rate. I've done that once in the past to buy a car, knowing I had money coming in to cover it in a couple of months.

I'm savvy enough not to fall for TV advertised loans at 1700% APR

[Astrokev]

I'd personally avoid credit cards like the worst case of plague. If you must go the loan route, I'd try and find a bank that offers the lowest terms.

[Gina]

Meanwhile, my "dig" is filling up - with rain water!!! I may have to dig a drainage ditch through the bank into the ditch next door! Then put in a pipe and infill. But I'm not doing it in the pouring rain. Wonder if we'll get any summer this year - or was that it a month or two back?!

[Gina]

I'd personally avoid credit cards like the worst case of plague. If you must go the loan route, I'd try and find a bank that offers the lowest terms.

I don't like credit cards in general and it's been a few years since I used mine. When I was using it, I paid it off completely each month except that time when I bought a car. Nowadays I use a debit card and reckon not to buy anything I haven't got the ready money for.

Anyway, I'm thinking about everything. No on-site progress is possible at present due to the weather, with no end in site!

[Gina]

From the various suggestions and my own thoughts :-

Cost Reduction Options

1. Reduce Warm room size

2. Omit Warm Room - arrange for adding later

3. Reduce Obsy size

4. Use OSB instead of shiplap - add shiplap later. I can re-use the OSB for lining.

5. Reduce size of timbers and quantity where possible

I'll evaluate the efficacy of these options and post the results when I have them. Have I missed anything?

[Multi-Coated]

Hi Gina , I know it's not my money but i'd say just get the loan and build it , even on the credit card , if you're the type of girl to pay it off then it's a good source. Don't cut back on size and the spec if you can help it as you will regret it at some point in the not so distant future.

But thats only my opinion and i wish you well with your project. Rob.

[malc-c]

If I was in your shoes, and it's just a cash flow problem, then I would do the build in phases.

Phase 1

Footings, and floor frame work

Phase 2

Framework

Phase 3

Cladding and roof

Phase 4

Insulation, lining of structure

Phase 5

Internal fit

Add in the purchase of a good tarp to cover the structure until it's water tight.

Yes I know you may loose any bulk order discount, but that would probably out way the cost of any interest you would incur in taking out a loan. This way you get the build you want with no compromises other than the time it takes to raise the money and build it. It also means that you'll get the best from the timber as there is less chance of it warping due to incorrect storage, unless you have a suitable dry place to lay all sheet material flat.

Or as Rob suggests (whilst I was typing), just get a loan and repay it off as soon as you can.

[Gina]

To Rob and Malcolm... Yes, I would agree with both of you in that I don't really want to do a sub-standard job. My calculations so far have shown that some of the options produce little real saving and only add to the complication. eg. reducing the warm room size saves a flooring plywood panel, an OSB roof panel, some roofing felt and a rather insignificant amount of timber. The RO running track would then have to stick out - a hazard at night (unless I put warning lights on the end) and need extra supports. The appearance would suffer too. Reducing the obsy size only really adds to the size of timber off-cuts. If 2.4m square rather than 2.44m (8ft) I could save a couple of lengths of shiplap possibly but then the floor ply would need cutting. Likely saving perhaps £20. Omitting the warm room altogether at first makes things complicated as I would want to add it later. Better to just delay the whole build a bit. Making the joists continuous with the obsy floor saves timber and screws. I wouldn't want to leave the warm room joists open to the weather for so long. Tripping hazard too - unless covered by flooring. Then the floor ply would be open to the weather.... No, I don't think that option has much merit either.

I'm not quite happy with the roll off section design in the roller area and will be having another look at that. The result should be better strength and possibly a little saving in timber. In other areas I have already optimised the design to use the timber lengths economically. Some saving might be made in the warm room frames and the obsy end wall with the flap. In general I can't see these savings amounting to much. I may shave a few tens of pounds off the initial estimate/design. If using shiplap in the final construction then the studding needs to be big enough to support this and prevent warping.

Using a substitute for the shiplap in the initial construction would reduce the cost considerably and (whether thin plywood or 11mm OSB) could be re-used for lining the inside. OTOH if going for the final result at first build, I could use hardboard for lining the warm room. I'm not sure of the benefit of lining the obsy walls.

I agree that buying the timber in two or three lots has the advantage of reducing the risk of damage in storage. It also reduces the space taken up with the storage. I doubt if the discount on buying all in one go would be worth it from these points of view.

I can probably still get the timber in batches of over £300, thereby saving delivery cost. I may go for credit card as you can get up to six weeks free credit due to the time interval between spending the money and the payment due date. This has been useful in the past. If I need to carry some debit over to the next month, these will be minimal. The bank option seems to have been ruled out now.

[Gina]

Add in the purchase of a good tarp to cover the structure until it's water tight.

Have taken your advice and ordered a tarp :- Silverline 633522 6.1 x 9 Metre Tarpaulin: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Should be big enough to cover the building (just). I've ordered it now because I can use it to cover my groundwork and help it dry out. We have odd bits of timber around that I can use to hold it off the ground and allow air to circulate underneath. The main problem is direct rain rather than water running down the lawn. In general the soil drainage is quite good but less so down a couple of feet where it's mainly clay and stones.

[malc-c]

I can't add any more to your thought process, and I agree with what you are saying in that often the look can be spoiled for the sake of saving a few quid (what's that old saying about half penny of tar ??)

Using a credit card to provide short term funding would seem the answer to your cash flow problem. As you can tell there are a lot of followers of this thread who are itching to see this project take shape. Lets hop the rain lays off long enough for you to complete the ground work and get the footings in.

[Gina]

I can't add any more to your thought process, and I agree with what you are saying in that often the look can be spoiled for the sake of saving a few quid (what's that old saying about half penny of tar ??)

"Don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar".

Using a credit card to provide short term funding would seem the answer to your cash flow problem. As you can tell there are a lot of followers of this thread who are itching to see this project take shape.

Yes, I know and I'm itching to get on with it myself.

Lets hop the rain lays off long enough for you to complete the ground work and get the footings in.

Yes, thank you The tarp should help - I can set it up like a sort of tent fly-sheet to keep the rain off the hole and help it dry out.

[Gina]

I now have the new design for the obs roll off section and base. Main change is method of handling the rollers - pieces of timber either side with uprights being cut to fit between. The diagram also shows how the uprights connect to the roof frame.

[Merlin66]

Gina,

I've built a few observatories over the years... in Oz we have MAJOR problems with timber (white ants etc) and the last successful build I did used timber studding clad with AC sheeting. It was a 6 x 3m construction and lasted for years......

Worked out the cheapest option. The large ROR was in two sections and used flat galv sheet - no fafing around with felt and screws etc etc . KISS

Just my 0.02euro

[Gina]

Gina,

I've built a few observatories over the years... in Oz we have MAJOR problems with timber (white ants etc) and the last successful build I did used timber studding clad with AC sheeting. It was a 6 x 3m construction and lasted for years......

Worked out the cheapest option. The large ROR was in two sections and used flat galv sheet - no fafing around with felt and screws etc etc . KISS

Just my 0.02euro

Thank you for the suggestion Interesting idea but I've just checked prices with a firm I've dealt with before and usually have low prices and I find the cost of sheets for my purpose would be over £200. An expensive option, I'm afraid

[pritc]

If you look at the time line of my build,it was over 5 months from start to completion....... as cash flow dictated:(

That's why in a few pics of my build you can see left over plastic sheeting (DPM)stapled to the outside framework to keep the inside dry!! (& cats out).

While I waited for funds(pay day) to buy the rest of the shiplap cladding to finish the job.

As Malcolm said build in stages.

I did!!

Just make sure everything is coated well in wood preserve if it is going to be out in the elements for some time.

I painted my pine T&G flooring with 3 coats of Creosote to protect it.

Believe me, it had to put up with several big rain showers before I had the funds to build and finish the Roll Off Roof section.

Plan well and it will come together....

Wayne

[Gina]

If you look at the time line of my build,it was over 5 months from start to completion....... as cash flow dictated:(

That's why in a few pics of my build you can see left over plastic sheeting (DPM)stapled to the outside framework to keep the inside dry!! (& cats out).

While I waited for funds(pay day) to buy the rest of the shiplap cladding to finish the job.

As Malcolm said build in stages.

I did!!

Just make sure everything is coated well in wood preserve if it is going to be out in the elements for some time.

I painted my pine T&G flooring with 3 coats of Creosote to protect it.

Believe me, it had to put up with several big rain showers before I had the funds to build and finish the Roll Off Roof section.

Plan well and it will come together....

Wayne

Yes, I shall be building in stages.

Digging footings out will continue when the ground has dried up a bit, though I did manage to get a few spade-fulls of heavy wet clay out today. It's really too wet though. Weather forecast is better for tomorrow so hopefully it will dry up a bit. I have a 6x9m tarp coming Monday which I plan to cover the site with. I'm going to order cement and bulk ballast and hope to get the footings done in the next week.

[Astrokev]

Good luck Gina. Hope the skies stay dry for you.

[Gina]

Thanks Kevin

[Gina]

Mainly dry today and I've been digging more wet clay and stones out of the pier base hole but it's a very slow job and hard work. I'm afraid there won't be much progress until the ground dries up a bit. We have had quite a lot of rain lately and there's some seepage of water into the hole from higher ground

[Gina]

Digging out the pier base hole by hand. Ground too wet and soft for machinery!

[nightvision]

Digging out the pier base hole by hand. Ground too wet and soft for machinery!

You have my empathy, it's really hard work. I have just finished lifting and laying a driveway and moved and landscaped about 4 tons of earth. Moved and laid several tons of blocks, sand, cement and aggregate. Also pulled out a large buried sandstone wall, 2 weeks non-stop and I am aching everywhere.

Couldn't have done it without my trusty pick-axe and barrow. The joys of retirement!

Now for an obs, well I've earned it! I'll be putting my warm-room in the study and building a simple Scottish style 'Michael' obs.