CCD camera design, an idea.

[ollypenrice]

Most CCD cameras have the cable sockets on the back. But as integrated camera-filterwheels gain ground why not have them on the front, to route the cables straight along the tube? Then they could leave the rig at the point of Dec balance. Almost everybody loops the cables round to do this anyway, but why add a loop?

Olly

[davew]

Other than they may intrude on the CCD chamber or filter wheel then yes, not a bad idea. These cameras tend to have the cables on their sides not rear ( The affordable ones ). The casing could be designed to leave some space.

It would suit the way I want to work anyway. I don't like loops,

Dave.

[gkec]

Most CCD cameras have the cable sockets on the back. But as integrated camera-filterwheels gain ground why not have them on the front, to route the cables straight along the tube? Then they could leave the rig at the point of Dec balance. Almost everybody loops the cables round to do this anyway, but why add a loop?

Olly

One possibility is that the front of the camera is more likely to be obstructed (e.g. by the scope itself) than the rear.  

[ollypenrice]

One possibility is that the front of the camera is more likely to be obstructed (e.g. by the scope itself) than the rear.  

Surely there's always a bit of space for the focuser, though? Nobody is going to use this kind of camera on a Hyperstar so I'd have thought there'd be room to bring the cable out round a wide scope.

Olly

[MikeWilson]

Most CCD cameras have the cable sockets on the back. But as integrated camera-filterwheels gain ground why not have them on the front, to route the cables straight along the tube? Then they could leave the rig at the point of Dec balance. Almost everybody loops the cables round to do this anyway, but why add a loop?

Olly

This +1. Also, let's stop using the large USB Type B connectors. They're clumsy and prone to becoming loose. Let's go for Mini B instead.

While we're at it, mount manufacturers could really use coming into the 21st century and drop their old serial interfaces in favour of USB instead. The first manufacturer to release a decent portable mount that also comes with an integrated USB hub will get my money.

[Uranium235]

MikeWilson, on 24 Oct 2013 - 5:21 PM, said:

This +1. Also, let's stop using the large USB Type B connectors. They're clumsy and prone to becoming loose. Let's go for Mini B instead.

While we're at it, mount manufacturers could really use coming into the 21st century and drop their old serial interfaces in favour of USB instead. The first manufacturer to release a decent portable mount that also comes with an integrated USB hub will get my money.

Im not so sure on the mini B port, theyre a bit flimsy and prone to damage. I think the larger ones are used mainly for their robustness.

A compromise might be to have the ports on the side (a la 383L+), then all thats needed is some right angle plugs and youre well away. Not sure if USB is available in right angle though. I think it depends on the body shape of the camera too, it couldnt be managed with the body shape on some of the current generation of cameras (eg: Atik series 4).

[FraserClarke]

I think cables coming out of the front would cause more problems than they'd solve, as that area is generally a bit busier and harder to access. Yes, you would probably avoid the focuser, but then you're assuming what size the focuser is.  Loops can be a good thing too -- provides some slack if the cable gets pulled on elsewhere.

USB is horrible, both physically and software(ly). The very least that should be done is to introduce strain-relieved mounts for the USB cables so that they can't work themselves loose. mini-USB would be even worse I fear! I had terrible problems with the mini-USB on the lodestar, until I strain-relieved the whole lot by cable-tying the USB cable to the camera body...

As all the read-out / control electronics is onboard these days, it would seem a simple ethernet connection would be the best thing!

[perfrej]

It would be too tight on my 190MN. Side with angled connectors is probably the best general solution. And yes, angled USB cables are definitely available. I use one for my SX wheel where the connector is on the periphery pointed radially out.

As for the stability of the USB connectors, I agree. They are total crud (a word that SGL does not filter out) and there should be a better alternative. Impedance is 50 ohms so there are few concerns besides excessive capacitance (if I have my maths correct - Olly, please note the 's'). It is four wires so a standard RJ connector could be used. Have to check on that.

The best way to get good results is to always bundle your cables properly so that they sit steadily and have little force affecting them. This is one of my fetish areas and I always, yes ALWAYS, have all the cables going up to the OTA in one nylon braided sleeve. That way, all my connectors stay in place and there is no tangling - ever.

/per

[Gina]

It may have been you Per, who suggested using the nylon braided sleeve (with zip up the side) for all the cables, but whoever it was I give you a heart felt thank you for the suggestion - my life was changed greatly for the better when I started using one of these.  Nice and tidy and no more tangled cables catching up on everything   Absolutely brilliant! :)

[ollypenrice]

As I'm moving away from mixing guests' gear with mine and towards having a separate mount for guests who would like one, I'm beginning to think bundled cables would be nice. When there was a need to be flexible in mixing up the kit I needed to be able to swap cables around quickly. I must look out for this zip sheath stuff. Any pointers as to where it can be had?

Olly

PS, Per, your conversion from math to maths is warmly noted!!! (It is like the difference between Coca Cola and Champagne, an analogy that I know you'll appreciate... )

[IanL]

I use spiral cable wrap - it is a bit more hassle to wind around the cable bundles but forms nice compact bundles.  You can get it from Amazon, example here; it comes in a variety of diameters depending on the size of the bundle you want to wrap.  Just search for 'Spiral Cable Wrap' (don't know what the French translation would be!):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Tex-Spiral-Binding-BLACK-Cable/dp/B003CL6MVA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382694704&sr=8-1&keywords=cable+wrap

The big advantage is that you can cut the wrap to the exact length you require.  I tend to use small cable ties at intervals along the bundle before I wrap the whole thing. It effectively creates a single thick cable that behaves itself quite well.

The nylon sleeve type is a bit easier to put on and remove since you don't have to wind it around and around the bundle, but it tends to produce a less tight bundle.  Depends on what you want really. Example here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-1m-Zip-Cable-Tidy/dp/B0073ELCSA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1382695041&sr=8-3&keywords=cable+sleeve

The zip fastening means you can't adjust the length of the sleeve so you may end up with it slightly short or a gathering of excess sleeve somewhere.  There is another type of tubular nylon sleeve that can be cut to length, but you have to feed the cables through it, which is less convenient that the types above.

[ollypenrice]

Thanks Ian, I'll get some ordered. Much appreciated.

Olly

[RogerTheDodger]

+1 for the spiral wrap, I've been using it to tidy cables for over 30 years and I still haven't found anything better.

[Gina]

I use the zip-up nylon mesh type and love it - very easy to add or remove cables - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-1m-Zip-Cable-Tidy/dp/B0073ELCSA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1382695041&sr=8-3&keywords=cable+sleeve

[kirkster501]

Most CCD cameras have the cable sockets on the back. But as integrated camera-filterwheels gain ground why not have them on the front, to route the cables straight along the tube? Then they could leave the rig at the point of Dec balance. Almost everybody loops the cables round to do this anyway, but why add a loop?

Olly

When I first bought my CCD I believed this was the case as default.  I was suprised they were at the back.

[laser_jock99]

Cables? Everything should be Bluetooth/WiFi these days!

But then you have power the device.........

[Earl]

personally id go with side ports and right angle cables.

Advantages been it would not cause issues with newts as you could just use normal cables,