Maximum temperature in the universe !

[Blackheart]

I have just read that there is no maximum temperature in the universe because... "there is no limit to the amount of energy that you can put into anything"

This did not ring true to me, but I do not have the physics knowledge to challenge it. Then it occurred to me that the highest possible temperature would occur when the optimum proportions of 'stuff' and energy from the entire universe were combined.

For example, let's split the entire universe into 50% stuff and 50% energy. We infuses the stuff with the energy, thus raising the temperature of the stuff.

Now let's change the proportions... 90% energy and 10% stuff. The temperature of the stuff would be that much higher.

Still further... 99.99% of the energy in the entire universe into .01 of the stuff. The stuff would then be incredibly hot.

But... Would that small amount of stuff be sufficient to hold that amount of energy.

Let's convert the entire universe into pure energy and inject it into a single hydrogen atom. Surely this would generate the higest temperature. But would a single atom be capable of containing that amount of energy.

If not then the proportions of energy to stuff must be adjusted and we are one step closer to being able to say what the highest possible temperature might be!

Blackheart's law: The highest temperature possible is achieved when the entire universe is divided into energy and matter, with the amount of matter being the minimum necessary to contain the energy.

Change these proportions and the entity would either be cooler or it would not be capable of containing all the energy...

Amazing what comes to mind when you are wasting time at work!

Now if there are any physicists on-line I would love for you to enlighten me further

Cheers all

BH

[Demonperformer]

Not a physicist, but does energy need matter in order to exist? or can it exist in and of itself? Even if it can, would agree that with a limited amount of energy in the universe, this would appear to limit the maximum temperature.

[Blackheart]

A good point Demon.

We'll have to wait on those physics buffs

[simon hicks]

temperature is really the speed of a particle. So presumably this is limited to the speed of light? Or does the energy tend towards infinity when the speed of a particle tends towards the speed of light?

[Freff]

My 'eads hurting now.

Tony

[Mr Spock]

It's 8.8°C here at the moment, that seems pretty hot compared to the last month or so

[Blackheart]

LOL Spock !

[GlynSmith]

It's possibly Plank's Temperature - 1.416785× 10 to the 32 K

At least until someone works out a working Grand Unified Theory

I'm going to lie down now, there's some deeply repressed memories coming through

[Blackheart]

Holy schmoly!!

That is way beyond what I thought was possible!

Cheers Glyn

[simon hicks]

GlynSmith...come back, don't lie down yet! Is the Plank temperature the energy of a particle traveling at the speed of light (or as near as) expressed in temperature units?

[ncjunk]

A wiki quote-

As for most other Planck units, a Planck temperature of 1 (unity) is a fundamental limit of quantum theory, in combination with gravitation, as presently understood. At temperatures greater than or equal to TP, current physical theory breaks down because we lack a theory of quantum gravity.[1]

Looks like a barrel load of laughs...anyone know any more?

[brianb]

Of course "temperature" really doesn't have a meaning once you get to the level of individual particles because it's defined in terms of the average kinetic energy of a collection of particles.

Central temperatures in core collapse and pair production supernovae are of the order of 10,000 million K. There are unlikely to be "hotter" places in the universe today, at any rate on this side of the event horizon of black holes.

[sammy1404]

In answer to the question, there isnt a maximum that we know of, we know that there is a possible highest temperature know which is the plank temperature which may have been the temperature after 1x10-43 seconds after the big bang, or at the end of a black holes life. We will never know for sure if there is a limit because we will never be able to measure it.

[GlynSmith]

@ncjunk - that sounds about right... It's a limit based on our theories of everything.

Simon,

digging out some very hazy memories, there shouldn't be an upper limit of energy that can be applied to a particle by its speed. To accelerate a particle with a non-zero rest mass to C would require an infinite amount of energy, and could therefore be classed as infinitely hot.

To get an idea of how hot the Planks Temperature is, it's almost as hot as the filling in a Macdonalds Hot Apple Pie

[geordieskies]

according to Wikipedia "Gas Mark 9" is very hot :-)

(I only posted this to reach 50 posts, now where's that For Sale link?)

[Raju]

lol, im new to this all, and my heads hurting- what are you people? professors? i admire the inteligence of some forumn members-

[Mr Spock]

Can you reach maximum temperature? I say that because temperature depends on particle motion/energy removal, where 0K is zero motion and zero energy removal, but can particles approach infinite motion and therefore infinite temperature?

The 1.417×1032 °C refers to the temperature at the 'big bang' (if you believe that theory), and presumably it is expected that the maximum energy removal occurs at that point. As 'big bang' is conjecture I'll reserve opinion until something can be proven.

[freeflyjay]

well i suppose you could say the hottest temp was at the big bang but even if you did convert all matter from the big bang into energy and inject this into a single hydrogen atom, what to say that 100 billion lightyears away there isn`t another big bang full of more matter, there could be an infinite many big bangs out there, and thats not factoring in string theory and parrellel universes.

i`ll leave it to you though to conduct the experienent but you may need a big test tube, oh dame that wouldn`t work as you would have to convert yourself to energy as well, so who`s gonna take the temperature reading?.....well at least we know the minimum........-273

[perkil8r]

.....well at least we know the minimum........-273

Nah, you haven't met my missus in a bad mood

[Frank the Troll]

Well its too hot for me, can I move to a cooler universe?

[UnderTheRain]

The LHC is both simultaneously the hottest and coldest place in our solar system according to the blurb I read. The problem is understanding what heat is and how it works. If you can find this episode of Horizon and lot will be made clear BBC Two - Horizon, 2010-2011, What is One Degree?

UTR

[Vince1963]

Hi. A helium atom weighs 0.7% less than four hydrogen atoms that make it, the lost mass goes into energy (e=MC2), If c = volocity of light in a vacuum and as we (at the moment) know of nothing at the moment which travels faster than light then i think there must be an absolute temp. We know our own suns core is about 16 million kelvin and i would say that would be the top range of any thermonuclear fusion. thats my theory anyway. maybe black holes hold the key:icon_scratch:

[UnderTheRain]

The heavier elements are formed during supernova explosions aren't they hotter?