Buying a Nagler

[anth]

Hi all.

I am in the fortunate position of having some spare cash after christmas and I am going to buy a new eyepiece for my cpc925.

Am I limited to buying a 16mm nagler because of my 1.25" diagonal or is there an adapter I could buy as I really want the 26mm nagler which only comes in 2" barrel size. Also anybody got any views on these eyepieces, at the moment I only have 2 plossls 40mm and 12mm and a 2x barlow but want something a bit special that makes me go wow.

thanks

anth

[CGolder]

I would recommend changing the standard 1.25" diagonal for a 2" one, they are very sturdy and then you will be able to use any eyepiece. I used one in my 10" sct and its great for increasing the Field of view. a 2" to 1.25" will give you a 1.25" view and actually in most cases harm you view in a 2" eyepiece

[moocher]

I`ve got the 16mm Nagler and it makes me go WOW. You will need a 2" sct diagnol (extra cost) if you have your heart set on the 26mm...

Alan:D

[Mr Spock]

Get yourself a Revelation 2" Quartz Dielectric from Harrisons for £80.

If you can afford a 26mm Nagler, then £80 is a flea bite.

[dmahon]

Get a 2" visual back for your scope, and a 2" diagonal.

[John]

As the others have said, get a 2" visual back and a 2" diagonal. You may also need to consider 2" filters if and when you use them.

To be honest you don't need a Nagler to get great views in an F/10 scope - but they are great eyepieces

[Nexus 6]

Hi anth.

check out my signature. As john has stated, you don't really need to spend too much on ep's for an F/10 but should you decide to at least you can use them on an alternative scope, which has been my idea, just need the scope now.

Quality does count and TeleVue are amongst the best.

Alan

[anth]

many thanks for the advice guys. Being a complete novice a have downloaded stellarium, which is an excellent tool, to try and learn the night sky. Ive had the telescope for about 6 weeks now and had 5 viewing nights, none of which was I able to get sky align working however I do need to buy a power tank orsomething similar. So i have decided to set my sights on two new objects - M13 and the orion nebula. Having never seen any of these before I am greatly looking forward to it and cannot wait to view them through a quality eyepiece - whichever type I decide to buy. Hope evrybody has had a good christmas!

[pvaz]

Just a word of caution: A quality EP, even the ones costing 400£++, won't show a huge amount of extra detail. The increment will be subtle improvements which are very noticeable for most but some complain they can't see the difference.

My wife says my 30£ plossl shows more green tint on M42 then the 450£ Nagler and she doesn't see the point. If not for her photographic lenses collection, I might have a hard time buying my toys... To me the Nagler shows about the same green tint and outperforms the plossl in many other aspects but, I been looking through them often and notice the small details.

EDIT: Once I get a f/4.4 I suspect the difference will be obvious even to someone taking his/her first peek through a telescope. But on my f/5.9, a new comer won't see much difference, aside for the much wider FoV and possibly some blackouts (bad eye position on naglers causes the image to go blank).

[John]

Much as I like the premium Tele Vue eyepieces, If I owned a CPC 925 and just 2 standard plossls I don't think I'd think investing £400+ in a single eyepiece to be honest. I'd be thinking of using that funding to get 3 or 4 eyepieces that would perform well in that scope - Baader Hyperions perhaps ?.

I see that Paulo is having similar thoughts !

[spaceboy]

Hi Anth

This is only my opinion and others may give better advice given your equipment but I think with a slow scope you would be better considering a well documented sharp eye piece like Otho's and as you are already a plossl user you shouldn't struggle with the tighter eye relief. I'm assuming you have a tracking mount so FOV should be no major issue so the greater improvement could be made to the actual image. Although Naglers are sharp EP's and have the space walk feel there can be minor short comings with wide FOV ep's. Slower scopes naturally have a tighter view anyway so I suspect you wouldn't get the same wow factor as you would in a faster scope. Otho's are pin point sharp and at a cost you could pick up 2 or even 3 for the price of 1 Nagler. Unless you are like Nexus 6 and have the intension of purchasing a scope that will work the Naglers benefits harder I would consider you spend your money with the bigger picture in mind. I soon found out ...... you may think you have a great EP set but you always find that little gap in magnification or view you want to better improve on. In astronomy that improvement can be costly and them pennies only go so far.

If money is no object? I would recommend a 20mm T5 Nagler and a 2x 2" powermate plus the obvious suggestion of the Revelation 2" Quartz Dielectric. The 20mm Nag is an amazing EP that will give you superb bright sharp views but is still reasonably light enough to be used with a powermate to give a 10mm @ 200x magnification.

SPACEBOY

[umadog]

Keep in mind that Televue eyepieces are all good and that Panoptics and Radians are not simply the models "below" the Nagler. The other lines have different, possibly more desirable, properties such as longer eye relief. Keep an open mind: you might get more mileage for your cash if you bought two cheaper TV eyepieces instead of one expensive one. Don't overlook the second hand market.

Some personal observations:

I find that I get some internal reflections in my 7mm Nagler when looking at Jupiter, that doesn't happen in the Radians or Panoptics. It's also possible the planetary views are sharper in the Radians than the Nagler. Also, I find that I have to move my head around to see the full field in a Nagler whereas in a Panoptic I can pretty much see the whole field just by moving my eyeball. I really like my 19mm and 27mm Pans and wouldn't trade them for an equivalent Nagler.

The blackout problem mentioned above isn't an issue with all Naglers. For instance, I don't notice it at all with the 7mm and F4.9 (not sure if focal length will effect blackouts).

I've also heard good things about Hyperions when used in slower scopes such as yours. If you buy new, make sure there's a good return policy. If possible, go to a star party and try out some EPs; or even ask here to see if someone lives nearby and will let you pop over for a try out.

[spaceboy]

I find that I get some internal reflections in my 7mm Nagler when looking at Jupiter, that doesn't happen in the Radians or Panoptics. It's also possible the planetary views are sharper in the Radians than the Nagler.

As Umadog has pointed out and as I said there are minor short comings with wide FOV EP's. Internal reflections will in most cases be an issue with most wide FOV EP's of any brand while looking at bright objects. I have the same issue even in a 58' TMB clone. The easiest solution I found to this is a variable polarizing filter to take the glare of high magnification bright objects.

The best advice has already been given by Umndaog and that would be to try before you buy. And preferably in your scope as what works for one may not for another.

[ronin]

I would side with those suggesting a less expensive range of eyepieces but say 3 of them.

Before you jump in and get a single eyepiece at the cost Naglers are, make sure that they would really deliver the advantage to you that an eyepiece of that cost warrents.

You say that you have a 40mm and a 12mm plossl. Are these anything that is better then the ones given away with the scope? If not then a decent plossl (TV?) may in itself be a lot better. There are many eyepieces that come in at the £60-100 mark that are pretty good and I suspect a lot better then the plossl's you may have.

[dmahon]

Buy your Nagler, but get it 2nd hand from the for sale section here or on Astro Buy Sell. If you decide it doesn't give you the "wow", then you should be able to sell it for what you paid.

[Mr Spock]

For widefield views on my C9.25 I use a 22mm T4 Nagler (x107). Great for galaxies and nebulae, and sharp all the way across the field of view. Easy to use too with no blackouts or other issues.

My 7mm Nagler (and the 5mm Radian I just sold) were bought for a different scope and as planetary eyepieces my Vixen NLVs are much sharper and more contrasty.

Horses for courses. The Nagler is a wide field eyepiece and is perfect for that purpose.

[ollypenrice]

I always feel terribly 'boxed in' when using an SCT on any kind of widefield object so a 2 inch widefield EP is something that I personally would think of as essential. I have never seen anything to beat TV though some of the good quality copies are not bad. However, I do feel like supporting TV because they invent these designs for us, after all, and are a wonderful firm to deal with. I once had extensive and effective one to one help from them on the phone from a proper optician. This kind of thing matters, in my view.

Olly

Olly

[pvaz]

I always feel terribly 'boxed in' when using an SCT on any kind of widefield object so a 2 inch widefield EP is something that I personally would think of as essential. I have never seen anything to beat TV though some of the good quality copies are not bad. However, I do feel like supporting TV because they invent these designs for us, after all, and are a wonderful firm to deal with. I once had extensive and effective one to one help from them on the phone from a proper optician. This kind of thing matters, in my view.

Olly

Olly

The only time I called TV Al Nagler himself answered the phone...

I totally agree, thus my current EP collection but, reading the 1st post, it seamed like anth's expectations where set too high.

anth, If you can try before you buy, then do so.

[Moonshane]

all good advice so far and I would agree the best is to try and link up locally with someone who can allow you to use one or more of their eyepieces in your scope.

otherwise go to a star party and take yours with you, other attendees will almost certainly be happy for you to borrow an EP for a short while and see how you go.

when you say you want it to make you say 'wow', do you mean in terms of wide field, sharpness, contrast, value for money?

I have a decent selection of eyepieces but ironically find the best for Jupiter is one of the cheapest (12.5mm Orthoscopic). My favourite range is the Panoptics and like Umadog, I really like the 68 degree field. One eyepiece not mentioned so far is the 24mm Panoptic. This is a superb eyepiece, gives you the widest possible field in a 1.25" eyepiece and worth considering.

As pointed out by others, the TV range are all pretty much as good as each other, the Plossls are as sharp and contrasty as the Ethos. The differences are in field of view, eye relief and weight (and of course cost which generally increases with an increase in each of the factors for the focal length concerned!)

Don't rush into anything - buy to fit needs. If there's something you look at regularly and cannot see it well with what you have then research what you need to be able to do so and then buy the best you can afford/justify.

good luck.

Shane

[Moonshane]

ps

you may find this useful

Tele Vue Optics: Calculator

[anth]

Well thanks everybody for the advice, noticing that a few people have said that the more expensive the eyepieces you buy the smaller the increments of quality i have decided to opt for a beader hyperion as my first wide view eyepiece (16mm). I have also ordered a filter as I spotted the nebula in orion for the first time on new years eve, I wasnt expecting too much but was extremely pleased to see it. I bought a OIII filter, what differences can I expect to find , has anybody got one of these filters. Also one more question can anybody reccomend a good glow in the dark paint so I can start to paint the FL on the tope of my eyepieces, my dark vision is appalling!

[tiwar]

You`ll have to tell us what you think of the Hyperion as i`m eyeing them up myself....

T x

[Nexus 6]

Hi anth, good choice going for the Baader, they are very well regarded. OIII filters should also help as they will darken the skies and allow only certain parts of the light spectrum to be seen, enhancing contrast and detail. . Not sure i'd want to paint anything on my ep's but if you want to try here

http://www.glow.co.uk

well done in finding M42 its stunning.

Alan