Should beginners fear an Equatorial mount?

[Blackheart]

Hi all

I've owned a number of scopes in my time but I've never used a German equatorial mount. I relish the idea of learning how to use one, but I'm considering one for our new club and I'm wondering if they might be a bit daunting or difficult to operate for a beginner.

Does anyone have any thoughts, one way or the other...

Cheers

BH

[Moonshane]

Hi BH

My first scope was on a CG-4 GEM and I upgraded this to a Vixen GP GEM soon after purchase. This set up was really nice and as a complete novice I rapidly picked up how to use it successfully for visual applications and the odd lunar point and press photo.

On this basis, I would not say it's a very difficult process to learn how to use a GEM.

BUT since I got my first dobsonian scope, I have really disliked using the GEM and find it awkward and much less comfortable/intuitive; it's also a lot less stable than the dob mount for larger/heavier OTAs (unless I suspect you buy a very expensive/heavy version).

Due to this preference for an alt/az format, I pointed the GEM mount to 90 degrees (or as near as I could get) so it effectively became an alt/az mount. Soon after this I realised that I should sell the refractor and mount and have now done so. I now have two dobs (see signature) and enjoy observing much more.

hope this helps (in a way)

[John]

...BUT since I got my first dobsonian scope, I have really disliked using the GEM and find it awkward and much less comfortable/intuitive; it's also a lot less stable than the dob mount for larger/heavier OTAs (unless I suspect you buy a very expensive/heavy version)...

My experience is similar to Shanes - I have a GEM (a CG5) but I hardly use it.

If you want to image though a GEM is the way to go - they are not particularly complex, just rather awkward.

[brianb]

The only inherently "awkward" things about a GEM are the meridian flip and getting overconcerned about aligning it superaccurately. (Rough alignment is good enough for visual & webcamming planets!) An equatorially mounted Newtonian also requires to be in tube rings so that the tube can be rotated to get the eyepiece into a comfortable position.

I'd far rather have an equatorial when working at even medium power. At high power, a manual altaz mount is awkward. You soon get used to the way an equatorial "works" ... computerized altaz mounts are convenient but really require short tubes (Mak or SCT) to be practical. Some types of equatorial have no counterweight and do not require meridian flips e.g. the English and yoke mounts commonly found in professional observatories but largely ignored by amateurs, perhaps because of lack of mobility ... this is a pity, the English type equatorial mount in particular is particularly easy to build yourself from heavy gauge wood (something like railway sleepers to get good performance!)

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I go with brianb: EQ mounts, and in particular German EQ mounts are no real hassle and WAY nicer at high power, especially with SCTs, Maks, and refractors, because you view from the rear. With Newtonians you need tube rings. English mounts are often a bit harder to align accurately: my Vixen GP mount is very easy to align using its polar finder in the polar axis.

The only reason I might consider a Dob is to get a cheap "flux bucket"

[Moonshane]

and differing opinions is just one of the things that makes this excellent hobby so interesting

all good stuff.

my advice as always is try and look through a scope that is like the one you anticipate buying before you do and with your own eyepieces before you buy. that way you get a feel for what you'll see and the way it all fits together as an 'optical train'.

star parties are a good way to do this - must get to one sometime

[Blackheart]

Some useful points guys... thanks

As ever it just goes to prove that when we seem unsure about a simple question, it's because the question isn't that simple !

I have a 12" dob and I like the simplicity of use, but the easiest scope I ever used was a simple Meade LX10. No computer control, just an eq wedge and a basic RA drive. Spin it round, switch on the drive and enjoy the view...

I will ponder some more...

BH

[PeterM]

They're not particularly difficult to work per se and certainly with practice they get much easier but a potential source of frustration for a beginner is finding the various controls in the pitch dark ie chasing down your target then, with your eye to the telescope, fumbling around trying to find where the slow motion controls are.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

They're not particularly difficult to work per se and certainly with practice they get much easier but a potential source of frustration for a beginner is finding the various controls in the pitch dark ie chasing down your target then, with your eye to the telescope, fumbling around trying to find where the slow motion controls are.

Even my 14 year old Vixen GP mount has illumination on its controller (very basic, but I can always find the thing). I had much more frustration with my old alt-az mount because planets kept drifting away.

[Rusty Strings]

I have an EQ5 and dob mount for my 200p, which gets used the most? definitely the dob just because it is easier and quicker to set up. If I had a permanent rig it would be a GEM just because I sometimes get tired of keeping objects in view especially planets at high mag.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

But getting back to the original question: NO you should not fear an EQ mount. They are a bit more complex to set up, but especially with a motor, they are very nice to look through, especially at planets.

Best advice for newbies: check out different set-ups at star parties, see what you like most (within budget of course ).

[Shibby]

Well, imho using an EQ mount is actually not ideal for a beginner. At least, not a beginner who wants to get out there and enjoy manually star hopping around finding things. It took me a while to understand the movement of the EQ mount. In particular, trying to adjust while pointing near-ish to North can be frustrating. An Alt-Az makes a lot more sense... I want to point it up a bit, left a bit... got it.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

EQs can be tricky near the pole, but Alt-Az is equally annoying near zenith.

[yeti monster]

An EQ won't point to Polaris, it'll just scoot around it. However, you can set an EQ to Alt-Az simply by adjusting the Latitude to 0', as if you lived on the equator (or were trying to sell your scope on fleabay, going of so many that I see set like that).

Also, by slackening the axis clamp screws slightly, you can manouver the scope buy pushing it, whilst still retaining your equitorial setting, thus eliminating the need to fumble about for motion controls.

[Carbon Brush]

If on a budget, and most of us are, here's my take.

An EQ mount needs only a little thinking about. Once you have got your head around it, then it is easy enough. I also helps me to visualise the movement of the stars - OK the earth's rotation!

With a single axis cheap drive, any object, once found, tends to stay in view. This leaves you free to mess around with filters, eyepieces, cup of tea, etc, without having to chase things around the sky. Very useful when you have just located a dim object, or there is intermittent cloud.

I wouldn't be without either of my EQ mounts. The D6 is pier mounted in the shed. I also have an EQ5 that moves around the garden carrying a small scope or camera.

[cootuk]

Next newt on a gem I get will have slip rings fitted so tube rotation is safe and easy.

Worst thing is when the ota starts to foul the slowmo controls... a bit annoying until you rearrange things.

[Shibby]

I don't know about you, but because my own head points to the zenith rather than Polaris, I found it much more natural moving an Alt-Az around than an EQ mount. Even now, I still find my self making far more adjustments when trying to manually point the EQ. However, I also think that every beginner should learn the way that the sky "works" and if the EQ mount helps this it's probably a good thing. Also, I concede that rough tracking (*if* the mount is motorised) is useful thing to have without having to do multi-star alignment as you would with an Alt-Az.

[Astro_Baby]

I never found an EQ too hard to get my head round. Like anything they need practice.

Having the mount do the tracking for you is priceless for comfortable viewing of planets and also very handy if your doing anything where other people want a look - saves you having to keep re-center stuff for people. Also keeps the wobbles to a minimum.

[starstalker]

im a beginner my first scope was a meade ds2080 on a goto altaz mount but after a couple of months i felt like it was "too easy" so i got my self an eq5 goto and a 200p, i actually enjoy setting it up as much as looking thru it, yes it can seem a bit scary at first but u get a massive sense of achievement when its tracking perfectly or putting targets bang in the middle of the EP. go for it i say once u understand it u will wonder what the fuss was about.

[Blackheart]

Ok, I get the message...

All I need is an Alt-az mount, an EQ mount and a dobsonian mount... simple!

Thanks for the great response guys. Although you do realise this will only encourage me to winkle out even more information from your collective brains !

Much appreciated

BH

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Ok, I get the message...

All I need is an Alt-az mount, an EQ mount and a dobsonian mount... simple!

Thanks for the great response guys. Although you do realise this will only encourage me to winkle out even more information from your collective brains !

Much appreciated

BH

Beware what you wish for, you might get it

[Wobbly Bob]

If you want to image though a GEM is the way to go - they are not particularly complex, just rather awkward.

I would agree with the above statement. For pure simplicity and light gathering, a BIG dob ticks all the boxes for me.

[Rui]

My dob gets used more often than my Meade LXD75 telescope.

Why? Just put it outside and start looking. It's so intuitive and easy to use. 'Tough i'm not affrai of the EQ mount, normally only use it to look at planets at high power ou when I need GOTO (not so often...).

[jgs001]

I don't think an EQ mount is anything to fear, but... I can understand perfectly well the feeling of trepidation that could come over a beginner when they see and try to use one for the first time. I started with AltAz and have moved onto EQ.

[Macavity]

Horses for courses? And availability for that matter? Having learned to star-hop with binoculars, Alt-Az has personal appeal. But I think most (i.e. young, fit etc. LOL) people would go for an... Equatorial - An HEQ5 (say). Others would suggest a Dobsonian etc. For (many and specific) personal reasons, I now have an Ioptron Mini-Tower. Thus far, we have been very happy together...

The question kinda remains... "What [scope] do you WANT it [the mount] for"? What kinds of observing? This would be a GROUP facility? etc. etc. Unfortunately, like my scopes, I do seem to keep finding specific uses for all my bloomin' mounts.