M31

[johnkirkpatrick]

I saw my first dso last night and I was over the moon when i realised what I was looking at ( with help from stellarium) M31, now way I thought to my self but yes there it was.

But I read somewhere that m31 is a massive galaxy and is the size of a few full moons? But what i saw was tiny and very very faint with no shape or structure to it and nearly dismissed it as an out of focus star lol. so I up'd the mag to x65 (10mm) and was not much different then I added my barlow and couldn't see it at all.

Any thoughts how to improve the view would be good.

[Moonshane]

hi John

well done on finding this! the only way to really improve on galaxies is to increase aperture, get darker skies (I presume you have this?) and reduce, rather than increase, magnification. I reckon to some extent M31 is as good in bins as in a scope. If you had some 10x80 bins it would look brilliant but it was also really good in my 10x50s. Last night in my 12" dob (poor seeing and Manchester LP though) I managed to see the small companion M32 but not M110.

[Doug]

Hi John

I found M31 last year and I was so please with my self until i realised that I had been looking at it for years through a pair of bins ,I call it the smudge because even in clear skies and a LX90 acf 8"

and with 12mm or 17mm Naglers it's still a smudge you are better off taking a image of it or may be I should use a filter ?

if you do find a method of seeing it well please please let me know

Doug

Essex

[Chris H]

As others have said use the widest field and lowest power ep you have to get the best out of M31. I use my Nirvana 28mm ep that gives me a 2 degree field of view but my 10x50 bins give almost as good a view because they frame the galaxy against the sky rather than just being able to see part of it through the scope.

[johnkirkpatrick]

I was using the 20mm supplied ep and it was still a very small fuzz, I'm starting to think this was not m31 I saw now with it being so small, see I always thought m31 was too big to get the whole galaxy in the same fov ( with my scope anyway)?

[RikM]

Well done for finding it because I always found M31 something of a disappointment visually. I think M81 / M82 have more WOW factor through a telescope because they are more compact and stand out much more readily against the background sky.

Rik

[RikM]

I was using the 20mm supplied ep and it was still a very small fuzz, I'm starting to think this was not m31 I saw now with it being so small, see I always thought m31 was too big to get the whole galaxy in the same fov ( with my scope anyway)?

You were probably just seeing the small bright core. The whole thing is massive, but most of it is too dim to see with small scopes. I only get the brighter centre part visually.

Rik

[Bizibilder]

'Tis a fuzzy and always will be to the naked eye (unless you go to an aparture that is outside the normal amateur range) - the pictures you see of the spiral form and dust lanes etc are just that - pictures, taken with long exposures using a digital camera of some sort.

From a truly dark site and with your eyesight "educated" to the observation of these fuzzies you should be able to see some detail on the larger, brighter ones, like M31, but this will in no way compare to any photograph.

Your eye "sees" in real time in the sense that it does not "build up" an image. A camera does exactly that - it builds up an image by collecting light over a period of time - hence the "extra" detail views.

Hope this helps.

[toml42]

you're only able to see the bright core region, this is how you can fit it all in the FOV.

[@@.]

ive been familiar with andromeda for some time now and can go directly to it with bins or scope. Initially i expected more than is apparent but ive grown to love it and have had many occasions trying to see it with the unaided eye, its frustrating but fun and, although i live in a very LP area ive managed to see it a couple of times using the peripheral vision technique :0)

[Doug]

Hi John

If you was looking East and looked up and could see Cassiopeia the second part of the W called Shedir and follow it down four o' clock you will come to it

Hope this helps

Doug

[johnkirkpatrick]

@ Doug yep thats where i was

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

M31 is GREAT in 15x70 binoculars. From a fairly dark site in France I could even spot a hint of dust lane, and both M32 and M110 (you have to know where they are or else they look like faint stars)

[Moonshane]

M31 is GREAT in 15x70 binoculars. From a fairly dark site in France I could even spot a hint of dust lane, and both M32 and M110 (you have to know where they are or else they look like faint stars)

I totally agree with your assessment of M32 and 110. I found M32 the other night but could not see 110 (although the seeing was rubbish). I was surprised how far out M32 was as in pics, it looks closer in until you appreciate you cannot see most of M31 with your eyes! (unless of course I found M32 and not M110 but I think I got it right looking at the stars around it).

[johnkirkpatrick]

I'm hoping my new 8" dob shows it better (when I get it)

[Chris H]

With an 8" dob and a low power wide filed ep such as a 41mm Panoptic you should get a pretty damn good view especially from a good dark site. LEARN TO DRIVE:D:D

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I'm hoping my new 8" dob shows it better (when I get it)

I use an 8" SCT and with the 40mm Paragon (69deg AFOV, 1.4deg true FOV), M31, M32 and M110 are spectacular. Your new 8" dob should be great.

[Talitha]

Congratulations on seeing your first DSO, John!

Let us know how the new scope is when you get it.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

When you get your dob try going for M13, which is just below the north-western star of the trapezium of Hercules. It is a great sight with an 8", and easy in binoculars (it was my first DSO in binoculars, and the first DSO I turn my then new 8" to).

Cheers

Michael

[Doug]

Hi John

Glad we cleared that up M33 is very close to m31 about 5 o' clock and a bit further down ,it's a shame we live so far away love you to see throw naglers

and they would be good in a F/5 scope

let us know how you get on with the new scope all the best

Doug

[johnkirkpatrick]

Thanks Doug, Am gona get some TV plossls for dso's with the 10"dob so can't wait this time next week i'll be able to report back and the extra 5" will defo make the difference lol

[badgerchap]

John, as well as rushing out and buying shiny kit (which we all love) you need to 'train' your eyes too. I remember the first time I saw M31 I was like "that's ****", but over time the view has improved dramatically. You need averted vision and a bit of practice, and before you know it, DSO's just begin to get better and better. And a nice big dob helps too

[johnkirkpatrick]

Yeh averted vision took a bit of getting used too like, But I've been using the rubbish eps that were supplied since feb and they really are mince lol, so with a little help from Russ (thanks Russ) I will buy a few good ones.

[Wbarkingmad]

If you fancy some visual wow factor try finding the Ring Nebula in Lyra. It is a visual treat and I think far more rewarding than M31. Well done though, I remember finding my first globular cluster (M3 I think) and feeling sooo excited!