Total newb - No idea what telescope to start with...

[phoebus]

Hello.

I am a total newb in the world of astronomy, don't have the faintest idea what to look for in my first telescope but I know that I want at least some of the following:

First of all I don't want to spend a fortune on a telescope, I definitely want to be able to look at the moon and planets as well as other space objects (deeepsky is it that's called?).

Also very important is that I am able to take some decent photos with my digital camera. It would also be nice to know that I have some sort of option for future "upgrading" of the telescope if possible but I wouldn't say that that's a major thing for me right now.

That's about it. From doing some research online, I think I might be happy with either one of these but then again what do I know!

Omegon Telescope N 150/750 EQ-3

or

Skywatcher Telescope N 130/900 Explorer EQ-2

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Many, many thanks!

Regards,

P.

[Cornelius Varley]

Hello and welcome to SGL. I have not heard of the Omegon Telescope N 150/750 EQ-3 so I guessing that it is one of the cheap Chinese telescopes that are sold under various brand names on ebay and other places. The Skywatcher 130/900 is a good telescope for beginners. If you intend to keep the telescope for some time and upgrade vaious items on the telescope (new eyepices, motor driven mount etc) the Skywatcher 150P would be a better investment.

Peter

[Capricorn]

Reality check:

DSO = Large Dob.

Planets = fair sized refractor and EQ.

Imaging = GOOD motor driven EQ (HEQ5 or EQ6) and high spec Apo.

So to do all 3 (which EVERYONE wants to do) lets say £2500-3000 maybe even £5000.

It's a bit like asking for a car that can be raced at Brands, driven in 4x4 events across country and has the general comforts, economy and maintenance of a family saloon.

[johninderby]

Omegon is a German brand. They re-badge scopes sourced in Taiwan (GSO probably) and do their own branded versions of the William Optics eyepieces etc. Their triplet APOs seem to be identical to the Meade ones.

Never having actually seen one of the Omegon Telescope N 150/750 EQ-3 I couldn't say if it would be as good as the SkyWatcher. I'd suggest googling for reviews and hopefully something will show up on one of the German forums.

John

[Moonshane]

It's a bit like asking for a car that can be raced at Brands, driven in 4x4 events across country and has the general comforts, economy and maintenance of a family saloon.

this is the best analogy I have every heard - sums it up perfectly.

[dweller25]

An 6" to 8" dobsonian is a great all rounder that is easy to set up and is a cheap start to starting Astronomy......

Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian

As you grow with the hobby you can put the same telescope on an equatorial mount which will track automatically - great for the planets.

Then you can also think about photography by using the equatorial mount with a smallish refractor.

HTH

[Moonshane]

welcome to this excellent group!

personally, I would forget serious imaging for now. as has been said, this gets scarily expensive. it's possible with just about any scope to take reasonable shots of the moon and there's enough detail to go at you could do this all of your life! it's just a matter of accessories to enable you to fit the camera to the eyepiece or scope. some even hand hold their point and shoot to the eyepiece and get half decent results. this is exactly what I did with a previous birding scope to get my avatar shot moon on Flickr - Photo Sharing! after a bit of cropping of course!

regarding scopes, I'd suggest a little more aperture than you are considering if you are 'normally' fit and healthy. you could get a dobsonian scope like this one Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian which would serve you very well. these do come up on here used quite regularly as people move up in size to maybe 12" and everyone normally looks after their gear so you should be fine. check the other threads and sales of those selling gear or ask opinions from others on here by starting a new thread if unsure. but don't hang about, they sell quickly.

this is not a scope that tracks objects so although you would see plenty of deep sky objects, you could not photograph them.

make sure you 'manage your expectations' too. you will not generally see anything remotely like the lovely galaxy images on this forum or in magazines. galaxies are like little grey whiffs of cloud - almost all objects are 'black and white'.

as additional extras, I'd recommend a telrad finder and a moon filter which you could buy with the difference between new and used

hope this helps.

you are at the start of an amazing time - and most of it (probably) from your own back garden!

[Moonshane]

An 6" to 8" dobsonian is a great all rounder that is easy to set up and is a cheap start to starting Astronomy......

Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian

glad we agreed

[david o]

Hi Phoebus,

Welcome to the forum.

Good advice from dweller and shane.

If you want to get into astro-photography the first thing to do is get a copy of Making Every Photon Count by Steve Richards - steppenwolf here on the forum.

It'll guide you through imaging from the start. Advising on choosing the right kit and what techniques work well, helping you avoid the costly and time-wasting pitfalls. Highly recommended and easy to read.

As for the 'scope you mentioned, if it's this one: Omegon Telescope N 150/750 EQ-3, it looks very similar to some 'scopes sold under the Konus brand. I'd say avoid it.

Notice the three very thick, cast spider vanes supporting the secondary mirror? Those will give you six great, wopping diffraction spikes. Really you want these to be as thin as possible.

[Chris H]

Capricorn, I think you scared phoebus off.

[pvaz]

It's a bit like asking for a car that can be raced at Brands, driven in 4x4 events across country and has the general comforts, economy and maintenance of a family saloon.

LOL definitly the best analogy I ever read.

The idea is: start with visual and learn what is astronomy, then some time from now, buy a good book on imaging so you can have a real idea of what your getting into. Then save money and buy the gear.

I had pretty much the same goal but soon realized it wasn't that simple so for now I only do visual as any decent astroimaging demands a lot of effort and a reasonable budget (1000£-1500£ minimum for an HEQ5 and a decent apo, if you already have a DSLR, otherwise budget another 400£ or so).

Visual however is much cheaper and you can do just fine spending 130£-300£.

[crazyjedi]

Good Imaging on a budget isn't realistic (this may have been said before). The sky watcher 150 is an excellent scope capable of showing everything you've listed. by the same token there are some fab dob's out there too (skywatcher and orion to name but two). I think a newtonian or a dob are the best bet as refractors are rather expensive if you want a good one

[phoebus]

Many, many, MANY thanks to all for your very thorough responses!

OK, I'm definitely leaning more towards getting a Skywatcher telescope.

My only other issue right now is that I can only order my telescope online and have it shipped to me.

The only seemingly-decent online shop I could find is Astroshop.eu if anyone has had any experience with them and can comment. I'd be happy to check out any other online stores of course as long as they ship to Europe.

They do carry a some skywatcher dobsons but shipping for one of those would be a killer!! Are they that heavy?!

So leaving the dobsons out, I guess I'm left with the following options:

Skywatcher Telescope N 130/900 Explorer EQ-2 Set

Skywatcher Telescope N 130/650 Explorer BD EQ-2

Skywatcher Telescope N 130/650 Explorer EQ-2

Skywatcher Telescope N 150/750 PDS Explorer BD OTA (this doesn't seem to come with a mount however)

Skywatcher Telescope AC 102/500 StarTravel BD AZ-3

Skywatcher Telescope AC 120/600 StarTravel BD AZ-3

Which one would you recommend most out of the above?

Many thanks again everyone!

Best,

P.

[yeti monster]

Where are you located?

Have you tried FLO?

First Light Optics - Suppliers of Skywatcher, Celestron, William Optics, Meade, Coronado Solar, Tal, Burgess Optical, Baader Planetarium, Astrozap and Kendrick

[ollypenrice]

I don't thnk the shipping would be much of an issue or very different for the Dob. They have all come from the far East anyway. The main thing is to use a known supplier who can be recommended and who will provide backup and advice.

Olly

[brantuk]

For imaging - you don't have to be too ambitious to begin with. You can achieve good solar system results with a webcam based imager like the Celestron Nextimage camera at around £130 (complete with software).

Avoid the Alt/Az scopes cos you'll need and equatorial mount with motors for more accurate tracking and "Goto" is an option for finding things easilly.

Look for telescopes with the "P" designation which signifies a parabolic mirror and get the largest aperture within budget. 150mm (or 6") upwards is a good starter scope.

Check the weight of your kit when choosing and consider if portability is an issue - astronomy is best done from the darkest site possible - if you're in a well lit area you may want to travel somewhere darker with it.

Budget in for extra's like a field power pack, collimation tool, eye pieces, PC and software to record and manipulate pictures, etc. And plan for warm clothes for cold night time sessions.

Hope my advice helps your choice - good luck

[crazyjedi]

i have a skywatcher 150 and can recomend it highly. I'd have thought that shipping costs would be quite similar between dobs and newts. Most of these online shops tend to factor in the courier with the price (excluding express shipping) I'd always recomend getting the biggest scope you can afford. Aperture is king in this game

[Capricorn]

Not trying to scare anyone off. Just everyone wants to be able to do everything on a budget and we have to be realistic and honest and say it isn't possible.

I would hazard a guess that there are more people that have not been given a straight answer and have left this hobby becasue of misleading information and unrealistic expectations.

Not helped by the slightly excessive claims made by manufacturers. Meade claim that their ETX 80 can take 350x magnification, the objective is just an achromatic at F/5.

Now Phoebus says:

Also very important is that I am able to take some decent photos with my digital camera. (Compact ot DSLR?)

Ask anywhere here and people will say that for imaging you need an HEQ5 or EQ6 with motors at least.

The mounts mentioned are an EQ2 and an EQ3-2. The EQ3-2 may be improved by adding motors and with an not too heavy scope (and camera) and if balanced imaging will be possible. Again Phoebus will need to upgrade the mount to do so. Not met one but I guess that an EQ2 is simply not up to imaging in realistic terms.

One thing I think really should be compulsary is that a person has to enter a sensible location. Someone may be close enough and be able to help or point whoever at a good local source of information.

[pvaz]

If you live outside the UK, then astroshop.eu is a good choice. Just order items they have in stock or you're bound to wait. I would get a dob for the simplicity of it. I think they are ideal to start.

[ollypenrice]

I agree with Capricorn. Astrophotography is difficult and the HEQ5 is the minimum imaging mount. I would leave photography out of t at this stage.

Olly

[crazyjedi]

I Agree. This hobby is damn expensive just to start off. Photography is a whole new realm of expense and expertise. First off you want to take in the sky, get blown away by what's up there and become well accustomed to what is where, and at what time of year, and what time of night etc... Once you consider the major features of the night sky to be old friends then, take a deep breath (and a bank loan) and get the astro-imaging kit - Mounts, motors, filters, camera's, software, bigger scope, divorce etc.

Start basic (but as big as possible), see how it goes, then go nuts with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pvaz]

Answering objectively to the last question:

If I was limited to that list this would definitely be my choice:

Skywatcher Telescope N 130/900 Explorer EQ-2 Set

It haves a decent light grasp, a900mm focal length which will easily allow both wide fields and decent high mags for planetary/lunar. In sum it's a decent all rounder.

My only problem with it is the mount. It's impossible to build a steady tripod + EQ head and put it out at that price. So any vibrations/wind may make the view tremble a bit. This is one of the reasons dobs are well regarded. A dob is a scope just like that one but on a very stable but also very cheap mount made of IKEA like boards. Personally I would rather pay the extra 25€ for this one:

Skywatcher Dobson telescope N 150/1200 Skyliner Classic DOB

The mount is more stable and easy to use, it will allow a bit more mag on planets and give you a better taste of DSOs (nebula, galaxies...).

Just want to point out this is my personal preference. We can start a friendly discussion here where everyone will pick a different ideal scope for themselfs (in fact we do that often ), as each design haves characteristics that suit different people and observing habits/conditions.

In the end the best you can do is learn about the pros and cons of each design, and pick the one you think suits you better. If you end up enjoying astronomy, you're bound to end up with a few more scopes over the next years.

In one sentence: Don't over think it!

Just get a scope and get yourself under the stars!

[phoebus]

Again many thanks to everyone for their input.

To clarify something - when I said I'd like to be able to take some "decent" photos that's all I meant, "decent", not ultra pro, not fantastic, not exceptional.

I stumbled upon someone's blog who updates it with some great looking (to me) photos which he's taking with a skywatcher 130M. So I believe that it is possible to take some "decent" photos with that particular telescope since I've seen it with my own eyes (hence I'm being 'realistic' - I think) that's why I sort of made that model as one of my options.

I'm definitely not expecting to master astrophotography or conquer the universe right from the start and especially with such a budget, I just want to get started on this.

The other thing is that obviously most of the terms thrown here and there definitely don't make much sense to me, if any. I haven't the faintest idea about what to look for exactly in a telescope as far as its specs are concerned. I think I understand however that in order to take some photos you need to have a motor driven telescope but this would exclude all dobsons from atrophotography, since you can fit a motor on them. Is that correct?

I guess it'll have to be between the Skywatcher 130 or 150P for me unless someone can comment on the possibility of using a skywatcher dobson for astrophotography (I like the idea of the telescope being hassle-free to setup).

Lastly could someone please explain what the difference is between the Skywatcher 130/900 and the Skywatcher 130/650? OK it's the focal length but my guess would be that a larger number is better. If that's the case then why is the 650 more expensive?

Thanks again everyone.

P.

[Cornelius Varley]

The main difference between the 130/900 and the 130/650 is the mirror. The mirror used by the /650 is parabolic in its curvature and the /900 is spherical. In most cases a parabolic mirror is preferable to a spherical mirror. Spherical mirrors do not bring all the rays of light falling onto it to focus at the same point, so you will find that at the centre of the image in the eyepiece the stars are sharp and as you get further away from the centre they before less sharp. In a magazine review of the 130/900 they stated that about 80% of the image was sharp and then the image became less focused nearer the edge. Spherical mirrors are also cheaper to make than parabolic mirrors so you see alot of cheap reflectors having spherical mirrors, the vendors usually call this type of mirror concaved.

Peter

[pvaz]

Shorter focal lengths while keeping the same aperture, create a faster scope with a smaller focal ratio. this have 3 implications:

1) It's easier to achieve wide fields. But you will need much smaller fl EP is to reach a high magnification, so you'll need to soon add an EP to the 650 to observe planets.

Magnification = scope focal length / eyepiece focal length

So a 10mm ep on the 130/650 will give you 650/10 = 65x.

2) A shorter focal length is good for photography as it requires shorter exposures.

3)cheap quality EPs will show more imperfections on short focal lengths. When ever you start going down to f/5 or slower, either you're not pick and don't mind the edge of the view all mushy or you need to be prepared to spend about 70£++ per EP. It can actually go much higher if you want perfect and wide fields at the same time.

So the 130/650 will be the best choice for some experiments imaging. And you are right, the most important thing in photography is the mount so a dob isn't capable of imaging. The problem is not the scope, if you later buy an EQ mount, you can mount the scope on that and take shots with it. The 130m also haves a problem: the EQ2 mount won't allow exposures greater then 30 seconds before tracking errors show up,maybe even less and that makes you have to take hundreds of 30s exposures to later stack on the PC.

Just a heads up: Other members have bought that scope but, in some cases, failed to reach focus using their DSLR. It's a common problem that comes up often in the section. The solution is to move the primary as far up the scope as possible, that sometimes solves it. The alternative is to buy a low profile focuser but this usually cost more then this scope. The 150p is said to reach focus on DSLRs without a problem. You should confirm with the dealer.

Some things you should read to help you:

http://stargazerslounge.com/primers-tutorials/37999-primer-telescope-types.html

http://stargazerslounge.com/primers-tutorials/40665-primer-planetary-imaging-toucam.html

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-tips-tricks-techniques/48674-dso-imaging-budget.html