advice needed with 130p Syncscan as had enough of it

[acharris77]

Hi all, I need some advice. My 130 Alt-AZ goto scope is being a pain in the backside for my last 3 - 4 observing sessions (due to limited sessions with the weather). The scope now seem full of problems and I dont know where to start to fix them, it is only 7 months old from FLO.

Problems I have listed below:

1) The mount no longer tracks objects - The last few sessions, whatever object I got in the eyepiece, the scope dont want to track it very well unless I view with the 25mm eyepiece. The scope is dead level, pointed north, correct time/date and co-ordinates. I have tried goto and using auto tracking in the menu, but it dont track. I thought batteries in the cold not lasting so I bought a power tank and still no better, even though the power is 12.3v - 12.6v.

2) The scope is unstable - I try to focus and when I do touch the wheels the image moves out of field, then comes back and the object in eyepiece just shakes, only got to move my eye near the scope without touching the scope and it shakes. touch very lightly with my eye and it shakes constantly in the eyepiece.

3) Cant seem to get a sharp focus on it. No matter how much I wind the focuser in and out, I cant get focus on it, and I have tried my glasses on as well, the image esp at higher mag wont focus, and mars seems just washed out and no detail or focus on it.

So I am not a happy person at the moment, and I apologise for my long post but I dont know anyone else into astronomy who can help and I am looking for advice and to vent. Thanks for reading.

[SteveP]

Hi Anthony

Sorry to hear about your problems. We've all been there!

Which scope/mount do you have? I'm guessing it's the Skywatcher 130P Alt/Az with Synscan

On the tracking issue, is the mount not tracking at all, ie there is no movement whatsoever or is there some movement but it's just not tracking the particular object very well. If it's tha latter then did you do a star alignment when you setup the scope. You've mentioned setting the time, pointing north etc etc but not the alignment stage

Steve

[russ]

Ant,

Don't forget at 7 months old it's still under warranty, so if you think its gone faulty give FLO a call.

I've not used that scope myself so can't comment on how stable the mount is. Although if it's like the Celestron SLT, the legs were rubbish and had to be retracted at all times to stand a chance of a steady view.

[Astro_Baby]

Tracking Issue - see post above. The alignment may not have been good does it find the right object but then not track or does it not find the object to start with ?

If the latter then the alignment wasnt very good OR theres a technical problem of some kind. If the former - if the former (ie it find the right object but then doesnt track) it sounds like a stright up technical problem BUT bear in mind trtacking accuracy on most Alt/Az scopes can be not very good especially on cheaper models but I;d still exepct it to track reasonably well for minutes at least.

The tracking and GoTo issues may be down to duff software. I have had a Celestron Nexstar 4 fail due to messed up software that was cured by a reload of the software set.

Wobbly views (1) - most small low end scope will dhow some imnage shift as you move the focuser. This is whats knon as focuser 'slop'. It can be adjusted out in some focusers. On yours there should be either two or four small screws underneath the focuser axle (the bit that the wheels are attached to) by slackening these off OR tightening them up a little you may get less slop. It could be bacause the focus is too tight (causes wobble because your applying a lot of force to turn the focuser wheels) or it may be too looose (larger amount of slop in the mechanism hence image shift)

Wobbly views (2) most small scopes on small mounts will exhibit wobble. Even large scopes on some mounts can wobble a bit. It shouldnt be as bad as you suggest though. I had a 130PM and while the EQ2 mount was pretty stable you still had to exercise care when viewing and touch the scope as gently as possible.

Let us know about the GoTo tracking aspect.

[Astro_Baby]

ps Mars is a small pink blob in most scopes by the way. Seeing has not been good of late. Also focus can appear to be out because of atmosphere haze - you need to observe for a while.

Even on a much bigger scope with a much more elaborate focuser and mount high magnification can be hard work.

[mdstuart]

Ant

Having had a few telescopes I know how you must feel.

On focus can you get stars to come to points. So pick a star, not too bright and see if you can get it to a point. So as small as a full stop. With most focus wheels (unless you get a special crayford with micro adjustment for over £100) just a small focus movement in or out takes an object out of focus. Even better point the scope at alcor in the plough. The bottom star of the pair is a double. It shoudl easily split in to two stars at high power. If you can get a normal star to a point and split a double like Alcor then your scope if able to focus correctly.

On the shake if you touch anything. From my experience unless you get a steel TAL mount or one of those very posh (£lots) EQ5/6 mounts) then you will get shake.If however you tap the scope and three seconds later it is still again and back to your object then the mount is working correctly it sjust what you get with a basic <£100 tripod.

With regard to tracking...hmmm..not my area. I always turn off gotos and aim and star hop to objects. So try to find M35 in Gemini tonight in this way.

Then finally you might be able to go WOW that is awesome I enjoyed the hunt and ended up with a speckling of well focused stars even if I needed to be careful not to touch the scope to keep it steady...

Good luck..

Mark

[acharris77]

Thanks all for the great advice, I will give it a try the next clear night I get. I always do the 2 star alignment when setting the goto, like I used Rigel and Alkaid the time before last, and then if I remember correctly I set both stars up and alignment successful, but when I moved it to M42, it did not have the object in the eyepiece. I know about the shake as on my Astro course the one scope 6" skywatcher had shake, but mine seem to take a bit longer than 3 secs, plus I get shake/vibration if I use a speed of 3 to move the scope, and 7 makes the image really bounce all using the handset.

Also, in the new 3.07 firmware there is a new feature called Auto tracking, which reading the instructions are as follows:

Auto Tracking -

This feature allows for quick tracking of a celestial object while the hand control displays the coordinates the telescope is curretnly pointed at. If the star alignment procedure has already been performed, you can activate the AutoTracking mode any time. If not, make sure that the location and time have been properly entered. Before choosing the Auto Tracking mode, position the telescope so that the tube is level and pointed to the North.

This did not work last night. And the problem is that with the weather, it is hard to get a few nights on a row to really mess about with it, as last night clear the next week is cloudy/rainy. Last night it would only track for 20 secs at best using a 10mm EP before it pass through the FOV, as this was my problem when I tried to image M42 or Betlegueze (sp), could not get the scope to track. Will give a try and if not, I will contact steve to see what we can sort out as a replacement. Thanks again.

[adamsp123]

Make sure the tripod legs are at maximum spread, when I am using my Vixen Sphinx on a light weight aluminium tripod I had similar shake problems but a good "kicking" of the legs outwards when loaded with scope solved it.

[sxinias]

Hi Anthony,

Sounds to me that you are experiencing some classical problems associated with the SkyWatcher SynScan AZ GOTO mount .... in accurate gotos, poor tracking, and excessive vibration. The synscan az mount is very accurate and well made; however, it's tripod is another sack of potatoes. Actually the tripod's design is very good, its the plastic used on the tripod that is the problem ... should have been metal.

The typical solution to solve the inaccurate gotos and poor tracking are every three of four month to tighten all the nuts and bolts on the tripod. They work loose. Next, make sure the accessory tray is installed and locked firmly in place. These two interventions generally solve most goto and tracking problems.

How do these two things impact goto and tracking accuracy? When the mount moves in the azimuth direction it will deflect. This deflection is too small to notice with your eye; however, if you watch the bubble in the bubble level you will notice that it moves in synchronization with the mount's movement. With a loose tripod, this deflection is sufficient to prevent accurate gotos and tracking. Locking the accessory tray in position also stiffens the tripod and reduces flexure.

Vibration. Tightening all the tripod's nuts and bolts and locking the accessory tray in place will reduce some vibration but only reduce. Another easy method is to simply not extend the tripod's legs when you use the scope .. sometimes makes viewing very difficult. One major problem with the tripod is the plastic leg sockets on the tripod head. The tripod legs go into the sockets and are fixed by two inline rivets that only penetrate one side of the leg bracket. Second the inner diameter of the leg socket is slightly larger than the tripod leg's outer diameter. Third, the leg socket is made of plastic which is flexible. These three things combine to provide the perfect pivot point for torsional vibration in the tripod. The fix is to inject epoxy inside the leg socket between the leg and the socket. One way to do this is to simply push epoxy into the tiny crack using a toothpick. This typically reduces much of the torsional vibration in the tripod. Another intervention to reduce vibration is to simply lower the center leg brace by 10 cm. This reduces the horizontal component of vibration forces and directs it down into the ground. While these interventions do not eliminate the vibration problem, they do reduce the amplitude, frequency, and duration of the vibration.

If the above does not solve your problem, then contact your dealer for warantee service.

[Capricorn]

Check that the time zone is set to GMT.

You have had the scope 7 months so when purchased it was summer time. I have read of people working out that summer time is one hour ahead so they enter GMT+1.

We are in the GMT time zone at all times of the year. DST on or off is what makes summer time.

After that it would be a case of checking everything and making sure the set up is as accurate as you can get it. It doesn't take long and eliminates as many errors as possible.

[acharris77]

1st a big thanks to all that have replied, been a big help. Just a quick update to let everyone know I got off with my scope tonight. 1st I decided to give a quick check to the screws and bolts on the Tripod, and though not really loose they all needed a good tightening up, and after this even when folding the tripod, there was some good resistence on the middle support thing so that had to help it.

So, I set up the tripod and scope, and the scope seemed to have a bit more sturdyness and not seem to have as big amount of vibration as it has recently, only the normal. So I set the power tank up and connected the handset and went through checking the co-ordinates, entered the date and time, and checked DST and it was set to off, so OK all setup.

put in 25mm EP and did the 2-star alignment and first chose Sirius, then selected Aldebaran as the 2nd star, alignment said successful. So I sent it to Rigel first, which it found in the eyepiece ok, just had to center it a little.

Great, then went to M42 and it found it, switched to 10mm to view Trapezium and focused OK, and seem to track ok, but when I centered it and went to enable Auto tracking in the handset and got the screen with the RA and dec on, I managed to get the trapezium virtually stay centered for a good 7 mins, until I decided to send the scope to M45 which it did.

The only hiccup was that, when I used the goto to mars, then it was out a bit and I had to move the scope manually to find it, but I assumed it could have been cause the scope had to go more vertical to find it, and wondered it hit the power cable which cause it to slip a touch, but then sent it back to M42 as a test and it was in the eyepiece, just needed to center it. So seems to be OK, and thanks again all.

[SteveP]

Anthony

Congratulations on the progress!

I don't know whether your mount has a 3 star alignment. If so, I'd recommend you use that. The more alignment points the better where GoTo is concerned. It won't improve the tracking though.

I'm still unsure what Auto Tracking does when the mount is tracking already. Is it some form of Synchronisation, ie you click it when you've centred an object and then it adds that to its internal model to improve its GoTo capability?

Steve

[Astro_Baby]

Congrats - really pleased its worked out. Scopes can be very frustrating at times tho so really know where you were at.

[johninderby]

With the tripod on your scope one of the biggest improvements in stability can be as simple as putting a 5Kg weight on the shelf on the tripod spreader. Can cut the "wobble" time in half.

John

[acharris77]

Hey, I think the tracking would have done another 5 minutes easy, as it did not move from the center of piece. It seemed to track ok without, but it seemed to be better tracking with it, but i am happy anyway, might be able to try the sc1 mod camera now better. Thanks.

[sxinias]

Glad that you got it working. Seriously, if you can spare the time, inserting epoxy in the tiny gap between the tripod legs and the leg sockets will really help the vibration problem.

I don't understand why you do the autotracking thing. I never do that and I've tracked objects for hours.

The mount is sensitive to centering alignment stars. The better you center them the more accurate it is. Center first in the 25mm eyepiece then switch to a 12 or 10 mm and center again. If you defocus the star, it helps to center it.

Another way to improve accurace is to use the PAE feature as you go from object to object.

For the person recommending a three star align. That option is not available with the synscan az goto mount.

[Mike_F]

With the tripod on your scope one of the biggest improvements in stability can be as simple as putting a 5Kg weight on the shelf on the tripod spreader. Can cut the "wobble" time in half.

John

I was thinking that too. As Ant has a power-tank, then he has a ~5kg weight ready to go too.

John's defo right on this Ant - it can make a big difference. Try rigging something up to hang your power-tank from the underside of the accessory tray. It really helps.

Mike_F.

[Shibby]

I have the same scope as you Ant, and I also have mixed results with tracking - more often than not the problem is down to the scope slipping or being nudged while focusing / taking images etc. Be very delicate! Interesting idea about the powertank on the shelf, I will have to try that.

I'm still unsure what Auto Tracking does when the mount is tracking already. Is it some form of Synchronisation, ie you click it when you've centred an object and then it adds that to its internal model to improve its GoTo capability?

There is one thing you can do, after you've performed a GoTo and re-centered the intended object, if you hold down [ESC] for 2s then press [ENTER] this re-centers the system to help improve the accuracy. I think it's called Pointing Accuracy Enhancement or something like that. However, sometimes I seem to then have to perform another GoTo for the tracking to kick in again properly.

Edit: There is new firmware, 3.07 with the following change: "Improve the initial setup of the system -- The telescope no longer needs to be level and pointed to the North as its initial position in order to accurately perform the star alignment procedure."