What if Betelgeuse went SuperNova

[Catanonia]

Betelgeuse is in a 1% of it's lifetime stage of super red gaint before it starts the route to supernova. It is expected to stay in this stage for 1million years and this could be ending anytime now.

Yes it would be a spectacular sight and eagerly wanted by a lot of scientists and amatuers alike.

But for the next 20 years or so after the nova, Betelgeuse would light up the night sky like the sun during the day. Infact it would actually totally visible on a bright day.

This would totally ruin any of our night time viewing / imaging activities for the next 20 years or so until it subsided to give no doubt a beautiful nebula.

So do we anticipate and want Betelgeuse to go nova or just sit there for the next million or so years.

Thoughts ?

[Space Bat]

Errr....after only just getting back into it...thanks for the dampener

I am sure Astronomik/Lumicon...etc will bring out a filter for that

[George]

If it was visible thru cloud I'm all for it

On a serious note I'd be more concerned about being that close to a supernova and all the gamma rays etc that would be heading our way....anyone have any thoughts on how dangerous this could be to us?

[brianb]

This would totally ruin any of our night time viewing / imaging activities for the next 20 years or so

20 weeks, probably.

all the gamma rays etc that would be heading our way....anyone have any thoughts on how dangerous this could be to us?

Not at all, the atmosphere will provide adequate shielding ... just as it does from the hard X rays which come from the Sun all the time. Some risk of knocking out the electronics on satellites, but again I would think a good sized solar flare would provide a higher flux level.

[david_r]

I think its about 420 ly away although I might be wrong. I was watching Extreme Universe last night and I think they suggested that if we were within a 1000 ly of a gamma ray burst we'd be up to our necks in the brown stuff. I guess that is dependant though on our planet being in the line of sight of the gamma ray emission.

[brianb]

if we were within a 1000 ly of a gamma ray burst we'd be up to our necks in the brown stuff.

But a GRB is several orders of magnitude more energetic than the SN event that may occur at Betelgeuse.

Betelgeuse type SN events must occur in our neighbourhood every few million years; if there was a significant danger, we wouldn't be around.

[Space Bat]

The real question has to be has it already happened??

If recent evidence of retraction and percentages measured are to be believed then it does suggest the Betelguese started its death throws a few hundred years ago so has already gone supernova.

[Iris]

Funnily enough I was just reading about this very subject last night - it seems that UC Berkeley have reported 15 consecutive years of contraction with a 15% reduction in radius since 1993 at an increasing rate [source: Betelgeuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Red giant star Betelgeuse is mysteriously shrinking | Eureka! Science News

]

According to Wiki' the distance and fact that its Axis of rotation doesn't

point at us any GRB would be insufficient to damage our ecosystem. Though satellites etc might not be so fortunate perhaps.

Not that I know anything much about such things!

[callisto]

Hope this is not a stupid question,

But what would happen if you were looking at Betelgeuse through youre eyepiece and it exploded, would it damage youre eyes ?

[Catanonia]

Hope this is not a stupid question,

But what would happen if you were looking at Betelgeuse through youre eyepiece and it exploded, would it damage youre eyes ?

Probably if at night...

[George]

Hope this is not a stupid question,

But what would happen if you were looking at Betelgeuse through youre eyepiece and it exploded, would it damage youre eyes ?

No its not a stupid question.......have you seen Day of The Triffids

[brianb]

Hope this is not a stupid question,

But what would happen if you were looking at Betelgeuse through youre eyepiece and it exploded

It's not a stupid question ... but a supernova takes several hours or days to ramp up to maximum in visual brightness; and in the case of a relatively near star, there will almost certainly be a considerable warning period anyway. If you stayed with your eye stuck to the eyepiece you might eventually damage your eye, but I don't think you would.

Almost all the energy which is emitted at the time of the core collapse is gamma & X radiation, there is also a very large emission of neutrinos which travel almost but not quite at the speed of light but still beat the visible light maximum to Earth. The visible light maximum comes when the material thrown off expands & cools so that it radiates mostly in the visible range.

We know of only one SN where the progenitor star was observed; this was the supernova in the Large Magellanic Cloud observed in 1987. This star was a luminous blue supergiant, very unlike Betelgeuse, and it seems to have been behaving very oddly indeed for several months before the final outburst. Betelgeuse, being much less dense, will almost certainly give a lot more warning.

The existing "deflation" may be typical of normal pulsation in the superextended envelope of red supergiant stars - there are very few that are near enough to have their diameters measured, but radial velocity shifts (indicating pulsation) similar to those observed in Betelgeuse are normal amongst red supergiants.

Fact of the matter is, there is very little evidence that Betelgeuse will blow in the next few decades / centuries / millenia. If I had to nominate a candidate for the next supernova to be observed in our own galaxy, I'd nomimate V445 Pup, which has a white dwarf close to critical mass and a close binary companion evolving rapidly & dumping huge amounts of helium onto its surface. Evolution of this system is obvious over a period of a few years, a type 1a SN in the near future seems very likely to result.

[jah79]

Nice mirror on the picture in that Eureka link! What's he cleaning it with, probably not a garden hose with water eh?

[Neutrino]

Would the light be strong enough to effect our weather/crops?

(if it were say 50% brighter by day or almost all day sun)

[room16]

I should imagine it would interrupt they're natural day/night cycle, so yes.

Some of the most primative forms of life still use the rising and setting of the sun to control their body clocks, and if there is a light bright enough to disturb that, then i should well imagine it would all go dodgy for a while.

[Neutrino]

then i should well imagine it would all go dodgy for a while.

You've lost me there, too technical

Increase in 'sun light' will increase temperature. Anyone fancy a guess as to what percentage extra light as compared to the sun we will receive? I would say - 5% short term okay, 10& or more result in significant warming.

[brianb]

Anyone fancy a guess as to what percentage extra light as compared to the sun we will receive?

Less than 1%. Very unlikely to have a significant effect on weather or climate given that the period of extra illumination is fairly short.

[Glider]

Day of The Triffids. LOL George.

[Sunwind]

If it was visible thru cloud I'm all for it

On a serious note I'd be more concerned about being that close to a supernova and all the gamma rays etc that would be heading our way....anyone have any thoughts on how dangerous this could be to us?

oh no gamma rays, angry astronomers.. you wouldn't like us when we're angry!

[Space Bat]

oh no gamma rays, angry astronomers.. you wouldn't like us when we're angry!

OOoooH this angry?

[TheThing]

I knew of a house that had been burgled so many times, the owner put up huge (in)security that were on dusk to dawn and lit the surrounding streets up (God help his/her electricity bill and carbon footprint!).

The resulting effect was that plants in surrounding gardens grew like crazy! cabbages 2 - 3 times normal size, rhubarb a good 18" long and flowers like you've never seen! So, extra light a night for 20 weeks or so might just increase crop yields rather than set them back.

[brianb]

that plants in surrounding gardens grew like crazy!

Anything which makes my weeds or lawn grow faster is a major nuisance. Break out the Agent Orange.

[George]

I wouldn't have thought street lights or security lighting would have any effects on plant growth.....its just the wrong sort of light, plants are tuned in to certain wavelengths of light emitted by the sun.

[Glider]

And the neighbours Leylandii trees will grow to be 30' tall and block the sky out anyway.

[room16]

I wouldn't have thought street lights or security lighting would have any effects on plant growth.....its just the wrong sort of light, plants are tuned in to certain wavelengths of light emitted by the sun.

Street lights are usually high pressure sodium or metal halide, blue and red spectrum mainly which does stimulate plant n flower growth.

Im sure some of the stoner astronomers could tell you all about that haha. I personally know of a few who use such bulbs to grow their chillies, tomatoes and other items indoors.