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Eyepiece and filter quandry....


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I have a quandry - like all Virgos I ask advice and like all Virgos if it disagrees with what I was going to do I disregard it (after all what do you know ?) if it agrees with me I compliment myself on another oustanding decision and go right ahead :)

Anyway heres the quandry - I currently own two eyepieces broadly suitable for planetary (I dont include my ultra wides for DSOs).

The two EPs are Baader Hyperions in 13mm and 5mm. The 13mm gets used quite a bit whereas I seldom use the 5mm (on my scope the 5mm produces x200 which is a bit much and I have yet to have a still enough night to get any real use from it).

The 13mm I like but I find it doesnt Barlow well - I have tried it in various Barlows ranging from the Sky-Watcher 2" ED, the Sky-Watcher De-Luxe 1.25 and a Celestron Optima.

It could be that conditions havee never been good enough even to go to 7.5 mm but I suspect the complexity of the Hyperion design is real problem.

Clearly Barlowing the 5mm and producing 400x of mag which is the scopes max would be silly and although I have tried it the view is impossible.

Anyway - as you will know the Hyperions have dual fitting and can be filtered with 1.25" filters - which is nice.

Now - you will see from another thread - I have a more elaborate 14mm EP winging its way from Arizona.

While I have few doubts that I shall look upon the new EP and find it to be good it does create a problem in my mind.

If I flog the Hyperion 13mm (my original plan) I have to buy all future filters in 2" size which puts a big cost on the filter kit - needless to say the exsiting 1.25" filters wil be wasted. Luckily I bought my UHC and O-111 in 2" because I knew one day I might change EPs. My moon filter, ND Filter and Sky-Glow are all 1.25" along witha few assorted unbranded colored filters.

If on the other hand I keep the Hyperion I can still use existing coloured filters and use the Hyperion solely for planetry useage.

The questions in my mind at the moment can be distilled to these.....

1) Should I worry about coloured filters - with only an 8" scope should I care ? Generally conditions have not been good enough to get any advantage thanks to the plents being in poor positions right now.

2) If I should care is the Hyperion worth the hassle as it doesnt seem to like Barlows - should I dump it and get something that would benefit from Barlowing OR sell it and get a 7.5mm of some type which would mean I could sell the Barlows off as they would be surplus.

3) How good is the Hyperion for planetary work ? - I have only ever used it on DSOs and its pretty good. I dont do much planetary observing but my partner likes to look at the moon and any bright planets.

4) If you were sat there with a 5mm and 13mm Hyperion and an assortment of 1.25" filters and someone dumped a mega 13mm equivalent that takes only 2" filters what would YOU do ?

Sorry for a long post - this ones whizzing round in my head right now probably cos I am exhausted.:):)

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I don't know what you want to use filters for but a collection would cost a small fortune to replace. In your place I'd probably flog both Hyperions & replace them with a couple of Baader Genuine Orthos - probably 9mm & 7mm to complement the other EP - these will take your 1.25" filters, they barlow well & their planetary performance is waaaay ahead of Hyperions.

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1) Should I worry about coloured filters - with only an 8" scope should I care ? Generally conditions have not been good enough to get any advantage thanks to the plents being in poor positions right now.

Like LP filters, one person's gold is another man's muck. I think the only thing you could do is buy them see what you think. I had some and didn't see the any real advantage so they went.

2) If I should care is the Hyperion worth the hassle as it doesnt seem to like Barlows - should I dump it and get something that would benefit from Barlowing OR sell it and get a 7.5mm of some type which would mean I could sell the Barlows off as they would be surplus.
I also found the Hyperions didn't go well with a barlow either but then I frequently find I don't use my barlow at all these days! Again, some people like barlows, some don't....
3) How good is the Hyperion for planetary work ? - I have only ever used it on DSOs and its pretty good. I dont do much planetary observing but my partner likes to look at the moon and any bright planets.
Here's the nub. I found Hyperions to take some light out of the view which isn't so bad for planetary and lunar per se but also a bit of contrast which is. I got rid of mine for that reason and upgraded to Naglers which I've now used twice and there's a real, noticeable difference in image brightness and contrast, but then there should be for that price! Hyperions are nice EP's for the money, especially for widefield/DSO's but for planetary and lunar I agree with Brian and get a couple of Orthoscopics, perhaps a 5mm and a 7mm would be good starters IMO plus they're dirt cheap secondhand.
4) If you were sat there with a 5mm and 13mm Hyperion and an assortment of 1.25" filters and someone dumped a mega 13mm equivalent that takes only 2" filters what would YOU do ?
Get a 2" UHC and sell the Hyperions with a view to perhaps buying something in the 7-9mm range.

Tony..

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Mel - Before you decide to part with either or both Hyperions I would recommend that you consider using the Finetuning Rings that Baader produce. They come in 2 sizes 28mm and 14mm and with your 13mm Hyperion this will produce the follow-

14mm Ring - 10.8mm EP

28mm Ring- 9.2mm EP

Both Rings together - 8.1mm EP

The benefit of these rings is that is does not introduce more glass just increases the focal length of the Hyperion.

I have considered in the past whether to sell my Hyperions but felt that having 1.25 and a 2" EP plus having finetuning rings make these EPs very convenient. I bought the 5, 8, 17 and 24 Hyperion but in a moment of madness got the 13mm Ethos. I use my finetuning rings mainly on the 5mm EP and the 4" APO refractor to give higher mags to view double stars. In fact the EP increases to 4mm, 3.2mm and 2.6mm with the rings on the 5mm Hyperion.

I am coming down to salisbury on the saturday only so if you fancy trying out your 13mm EP with finetuning rings you are welcome to try.

Mark

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Hi Mel

Ive just purchased a Televue 8mm Plossl and it is a very nice ep, i use this with the Baader Neodymium filter for planetary views and it is very pleasing.

Mick.:)

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I would disagree that filters don't enhance views in 8" or less scopes. I have used a yellow filter very sucessfully with both my 4" refractor and 6" reflector on Jupiter and Saturn to bring out surface detail. Just my humble opinion.........

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Hyperions don't barlow because they already use a barlow system. I find my Antares 7.5mm Japan Ortho is a super planet performer in my 8" f6 Newt... never part with that. Grab a 9mm Baader ortho.

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Hyperions don't barlow because they already use a barlow system.

So do Naglers but they seem to barlow very well.

AB, I'd suggest looking at the TS Planetary HR range - they do a 7mm for around £50 with decent eye relief and a 58 degree FoV. I have tried a few of these and found they performed very well, even in relatively short focal length scopes - comparing well with Naglers (except for the FoV of course) and orthos.

I find 7mm a really useful focal length for medium to high power - often showing all the planetary detail that is available on a given night.

John

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I'd be interested to know where would you guys rate the Williams SPLs and UWANS as possible alternates ?

I'm considering selling both Hyperions and just go for a 7mm. In which case I could afford whatever the sum sale value of the Hyperions.

Sometimes I'm inclined to walk in a jewellers with a shotgun so I could finance every eyepiece ever made :):):)

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I'd be interested to know where would you guys rate the Williams SPLs and UWANS as possible alternates ?

I'm considering selling both Hyperions and just go for a 7mm. In which case I could afford whatever the sum sale value of the Hyperions.

Sometimes I'm inclined to walk in a jewellers with a shotgun so I could finance every eyepiece ever made :):):p

You looked well disguised on the news the other night. Wow £40m - what could you do with that?:)

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The WO UWAN (or Skywatcher Nirvana) 7mm will be very close to a Nagler and a real step up in peformance over the Hyperions as well as having an 82 degree FOV.

The WO SPL is virtualy identical in performance to the TMB Burgess Planetary eyepiece. I've used both but much prefered the SPL, as to me it was just more comfortable to use and has very good eye releif.

I'd say the Hyperions are as much of a step up in performance over the SPLs as the UWAN/Nirvanas are over the Hyperions.

John

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I found the WO SPL slightly better than the TMB Planetary EP's. I have one of the clones, they seem less soft to me. I like the look of the Nirvana's though.

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I'm struggling with a similar quandry, Think the 7mm and 16mm uwan would be great but reviews have said the 16mm isn't the best in a fast scope. Hmm. how bad would astigmatism be and would it still be an improvement from what I got???

The indecision is killing me? :)

Brian

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I'm struggling with a similar quandry, Think the 7mm and 16mm uwan would be great but reviews have said the 16mm isn't the best in a fast scope. Hmm. how bad would astigmatism be and would it still be an improvement from what I got???

The indecision is killing me? :)

Brian

I've used a UWAN 16mm and have compared it directly with a Nagler 16mm. No difference that I could detect and that was with an f/6 dob and an F/6.5 refractor, in fact the eye relief was a tad better. I'd suggest that it's performance would be a bit better than a Hyperion of the same focal length in fast scopes plus you get the 82 degree FoV.

I've been trying a Skywatcher Nirvana 28mm over the past few weeks and I'm convinced that the Nirvana's are the same as UWAN's so you might like to consider those as well (hope that does not add to your indecision !).

John

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I've used a UWAN 16mm and have compared it directly with a Nagler 16mm. No difference that I could detect and that was with an f/6 dob and an F/6.5 refractor, in fact the eye relief was a tad better.

John,

Is that an F/6 dob or your 12" lightbridge F/5? If the 16mm works well with an F5 dob would there be a big difference with my F/4.7 dob? I'm close to persuading myself!!!

Thanks

Brian

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From what I've been able to find out at f/5 the UWANS are a very close second to the Naglers with not much in it. At f/4.5 the Naglers start to pull ahead a bit and the UWANS have noticeably more edge distortion. Still for the money the UWANS are a great buy.

John

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John,

Is that an F/6 dob or your 12" lightbridge F/5? If the 16mm works well with an F5 dob would there be a big difference with my F/4.7 dob? I'm close to persuading myself!!!

Thanks

Brian

That was with a Skywatcher 200P F/6 dob Brian. The 28mm Skywatcher Nirvana is working very well in my 12" Lightbridge though - it's doing a remarkable impression of a Nagler in fact :)

Obviously I don't know if the UWAN's and the Nirvana's are exactly the same spec and quality controlled to the same standard - I guess you would have to try a number of examples of each to assess that. The example of the 28mm Nirvana that I have been using seems superbly finished - well up to the quality of my 31mm Nagler I feel.

Scopes below F/5 are always going to be demanding on even the best eyepieces - I do feel that with the UWAN / Nirvana's though you are getting at least 90-95% of what the equivilent Nagler will give at a price that is around 40% lower.

John

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