Tearing my hair out...

[RJC]

I am new to Astronomy and on one hand I am really enjoying looking into it, on the other hand I am overwhelmed, frustrated and confused; a shell of a man.
OK, that's an exaggeration...

Having bought the StarTravel 120 and enjoying it, I unfortunately continued reading/watching/researching reviews online and I'm a bit annoyed I didn't go with the 127 Mak, (plus others but let's keep this about the StarTravel vs. Mak).

It seems no single scope will do everything, (well at least).

A StarTravel that is typically better for low power deep sky vs. a Mak that is typically better for lunar/planetary.

My question is simple:
Which wins?
A.) StarTravel 120 on planets
B.) SkyMax 127 on DSO

Thanks!
 

[NGC 1502]

Please don’t stress, both of those scopes will be great.

As you’ve already bought the 120, if it were me I’d just enjoy using it. It will excel for low power wide field viewing for many objects. Whilst it’s not ideal at higher power especially bright objects, that’s not to say it will disappoint if you can accept what it does.  Perhaps research how to cope best, perhaps a filter for bright planets, or try stopping it down with a DIY aperture mask. Enjoy great views of Jupiter, not perfection but satisfying none the less. Learn to ignore the blue/purple halo, concentrate on what’s good rather than lack of pristine views.

With the right perspective a great instrument for many years to come😊

Ed.

[JOC]

A.) StarTravel 120 on planets
B.) SkyMax 127 on DSO

In fairness to those answering,  Although I know nothing about either scope, I suspect you can't compare apples with pears.  A and B are two different criteria that maybe shouldn't be sitting next to each other in a comparison.  I sense from what you put that the Startravel should perform better on planets and and skymax on DSO's so if you were buying from new I guess you buy the telescope that works best for the stuff in the sky that interests you the most - you purchased the startravel so you obviously fancied you hand with planets, but it doesn't mean you can't view anything else with it.  As @NGC 1502 says though whatever you have purchased it should give you at least a fair view of both categories of sky bits.  So perhaps you need to get out there and use it.  Once you realise that you can only view the sky in the UK for about 10% if the year due to cloud cover and then you freeze your rocks off whilst you do it, you might regret buying a scope at all!!  Or buy a solar safe setup and view the sun when it's warm outside then you might change your kit completely.   Besides which everyone knows the answer to what scope should I buy is 'an 8" Skywatcher Dobsonian 200P"  😉  Just get out there and enjoy using what you have!!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The Maksutov design works brilliantly on planets and the moon, and is fine visually for all DSOs that fit into its smaller field of view. Using a 30 mm EP in the Skymax will give the same magnification as using a 12 mm in the StarTravel 120, both yielding 50x magnification at roughly the same aperture. The vast majority of DSOs fit, only a few larger ones don't. Only when imaging DSOs does the slow speed of the Maksutov become a drawback. When imaging planets or the moon, the Skymax is great. The StarTravel 120 is definitely better on wide-field objects, but it is going to suffer on planets. Ideally, you want both, of course, but if I had to choose just one it would be the Skymax.

[SuburbanMak]

I would leave your hair untorn tbh... 

I haven't owned an ST120 but used a 127 Mak as my main scope for a couple of years + own the ST80, your 'scope's little brother.  

With the Skywatcher Mak the working aperture is in reality around 120mm anyway, so your resolving power for double stars and small features on the moon, planets etc is essentially the same.  The only big difference is in focal length, so you'll need some shorter FL eyepieces to get up to comparable magnifications with the Mak.   The ST120 is a 600mm I believe so if you pick up a 4mm eyepiece you'll be getting up to 150x, which will show you some nice detail on the moon & Jupiter, Saturn etc and is for the most part getting up toward as much magnification as UK skys will support on all but the best nights.  

With a 10mm on board at 60x you should have a super DSO hunter to enjoy! 

On the plus side, you can enjoy the ST120's widefield views for sweeping clusters and rich starfields - it will take 2 inch eyepieces so something like the superb Stella Lyra (APM) 30mm UFF would give you a 3.5 degree field of view at 20x. 

If the colour fringing on brighter objects really bothers you, you could in time pick up a Baader Semi APO filter which really cuts it down - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/achromat-semi-apo-filters/baader-semi-apo-filter.html

Enjoy what you have, you'll almost certainly buy another telescope in due course! 

Clear skies.  

 

 

Edited January 15 by SuburbanMak

[RJC]

Great feedback / advice and indeed therapy.

Thanks, everyone!

[Cosmic Geoff]

If you received  Barlow lens with the Startravel, try using that + an eyepiece for planetary viewing.  With my Startravel 102, this appeared to decrease the chromatic aberration on planetary viewing.  If it doesn't work for you, nothing lost.

My Startravel 102 works well as an imaging scope for EVAA (you may need a more serious mount).  One can anticipate that a dual-band filter for imaging nebulae will also cut much of the chromatic aberration.

[cajen2]

6 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

I would leave your hair untorn tbh... 

I haven't owned an ST120 but used a 127 Mak as my main scope for a couple of years + own the ST80, your 'scope's little brother.  

With the Skywatcher Mak the working aperture is in reality around 120mm anyway, so your resolving power for double stars and small features on the moon, planets etc is essentially the same.  The only big difference is in focal length, so you'll need some shorter FL eyepieces to get up to comparable magnifications with the Mak.   The ST120 is a 600mm I believe so if you pick up a 4mm eyepiece you'll be getting up to 150x, which will show you some nice detail on the moon & Jupiter, Saturn etc and is for the most part getting up toward as much magnification as UK skys will support on all but the best nights.  

With a 10mm on board at 60x you should have a super DSO hunter to enjoy! 

On the plus side, you can enjoy the ST120's widefield views for sweeping clusters and rich starfields - it will take 2 inch eyepieces so something like the superb Stella Lyra (APM) 30mm UFF would give you a 3.5 degree field of view at 20x. 

If the colour fringing on brighter objects really bothers you, you could in time pick up a Baader Semi APO filter which really cuts it down - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/achromat-semi-apo-filters/baader-semi-apo-filter.html

Enjoy what you have, you'll almost certainly buy another telescope in due course! 

Clear skies.  

 

 

SUM is quite right on all counts, but I'd try the Baader Contrast Booster to cut down on chromatic aberration. I remember reading an article on all the Baader filters and this came out on top. It also subtly enhances the detail on Jupiter for me.

[Carbon Brush]

I used to own a Startravel 102 - almost a 120😁.
The views for the ££ spent were very good.
If you want to push the magnification and chromatic aberration bothers you, consider a filter to narrow the wavelengths pased.
This is a lower cost solution than a second scope, or an apo scope!
If the object is bright (like Jupiter or the moon) consider masking the outside 10mm or 20mm of the objective. A blue Peter paper and tape fix costing pennies. That will help CA.

I have used a 127Mak. Yes really good on narrow angle views, like planets or lunar. But longer cool down time.

The biggest consideration with any kit scope is whether the stock eyepieces are letting you down.
Typically the 25mm EP is OK. the 10mm can be anything from sort of OK to best repurposed as an astro themed salt pot.

Keep the hair on🤣

[happy-kat]

With the startravel why not try observing planets)Moon with just the centre cap removed on the full cap, might be fun to try and see if you can push magnification and hopefully there will be less/no chromatic aberration.

(I've assumed there's a centre cap my ST80 has one)

 

[Beardy30]

On 15/01/2024 at 16:13, Cosmic Geoff said:

If you received  Barlow lens with the Startravel, try using that + an eyepiece for planetary viewing.  With my Startravel 102, this appeared to decrease the chromatic aberration on planetary viewing.  If it doesn't work for you, nothing lost.

My Startravel 102 works well as an imaging scope for EVAA (you may need a more serious mount).  One can anticipate that a dual-band filter for imaging nebulae will also cut much of the chromatic aberration.

I agree. I have the 102 startravel and a 127 Mak - the 102 is my preferred scope and give great wide field views and I’ve had brilliant images of Jupiter using the Barlow does help also - I’d never part with the 102 and personally pick it over the Mak any day 

Edited January 23 by Beardy30

[LondonNeil]

Hi,

I'm also a newbie astronomer and in week 2 of owning an ST120.  Yes it's got limitations but so far I'm enjoying using it!  I'm trying to take the an approach that kinda applies to most hobbies. 

1. You're new,  don't know much,  will make mistakes, don't fret.  Reading and researching is good but as a complete novice I don't even understand  a lot of the issues let alone the answers,  so I have to dip my toe/ dive in,  try for myself,  make some mistakes.  That's fine so long as I LEARN FROM THEM! 

2.Have fun learning. 

3. There are many who have been in this hobby for a long while,  experienced, knowledgeable and practiced astronomers and likely equped by now with an array of the finest equipment that they know very well.  They choose wisely what to use when,  and get get views,  great photos, great experiences.  I am not in competition with them!  I did not start this trying to match them.  I can USE THEM for inspiration and advice though (thanks to astrobiscuit for getting me interested,  thanks to all the contributors here and at cloudy nights for the advice you will give me!).

4.  Equipment is costly but mistakes need not cost a lot.   Some will cost more but lots of equipment can be bought used (I got the ota and tripod,  remote focuser,  and several quality EPs from various astrobuysell and ebay ads.... I saw a baader Hyperion go for under ⅓ its rrp on ebay last week).  If you buy carefully and  sell what doesn't suit you you'll not lose loads.   Think of the cost as a hire fee.   

Even better if you can get to a club,  trek l talk to other members and take a look through their set up,  you'll learn about some options for free. 

5.  Have fun.   Did I say that enough? 😉

 

BTW OP.  I'm happy to share thoughts on the eye pieces I bought although 2 weeks in I still don't know a good view from tosh!

[mikeDnight]

I'd have given my right arm for a StarTravel 120 when I began in this hobby back in 1980. Back then though, the skies were more transparent and had less light pollution, and my interests were brighter deep sky and comets. I think of the StarTravel series as being somewhat specialist instruments, as they can deliver truly awesome views of the milkyway, star clusters and nebulae, as well as comets, like few other telescopes can. But as you've come to learn, they are perhaps not the best choice when it comes to observing the Moon & Planets. However, in 2004, a friend brought his new StarTravel 102 round to me to get my opinion. I aimed the little scope at Mars and fit a 3X TV barlow and a 7mm Nagler to the scope. Mars was getting low in the west but immediately we could both see identifiable surface detail. We were both impressed that this F5 refractor could perform so well, of course with a 3X barlow the little scope was effectively working at F15. I suppose the lesson is that with the right accessories a little StarTravel can do what it wasn't designed to do, although with some limitations. If you had gone for the Mak 127 you could never get the same wide fields of view that the StarTravel will give you, but you would have a good lunar and planetary scope.

 As for no single scope doing everything, well that's a Pandora's box that someone else can open. All I'll say is "be prepared for some serious surgery on your wallet!"😂

Edited January 23 by mikeDnight

[Beardy30]

9 hours ago, LondonNeil said:

Hi,

I'm also a newbie astronomer and in week 2 of owning an ST120.  Yes it's got limitations but so far I'm enjoying using it!  I'm trying to take the an approach that kinda applies to most hobbies. 

1. You're new,  don't know much,  will make mistakes, don't fret.  Reading and researching is good but as a complete novice I don't even understand  a lot of the issues let alone the answers,  so I have to dip my toe/ dive in,  try for myself,  make some mistakes.  That's fine so long as I LEARN FROM THEM! 

2.Have fun learning. 

3. There are many who have been in this hobby for a long while,  experienced, knowledgeable and practiced astronomers and likely equped by now with an array of the finest equipment that they know very well.  They choose wisely what to use when,  and get get views,  great photos, great experiences.  I am not in competition with them!  I did not start this trying to match them.  I can USE THEM for inspiration and advice though (thanks to astrobiscuit for getting me interested,  thanks to all the contributors here and at cloudy nights for the advice you will give me!).

4.  Equipment is costly but mistakes need not cost a lot.   Some will cost more but lots of equipment can be bought used (I got the ota and tripod,  remote focuser,  and several quality EPs from various astrobuysell and ebay ads.... I saw a baader Hyperion go for under ⅓ its rrp on ebay last week).  If you buy carefully and  sell what doesn't suit you you'll not lose loads.   Think of the cost as a hire fee.   

Even better if you can get to a club,  trek l talk to other members and take a look through their set up,  you'll learn about some options for free. 

5.  Have fun.   Did I say that enough? 😉

 

BTW OP.  I'm happy to share thoughts on the eye pieces I bought although 2 weeks in I still don't know a good view from tosh!

I’m also a huge fan of the biscuit ! Top fella Rory 

[LondonNeil]

Entertaining and showed me that even in London you can get 'wow!'s

[Beardy30]

1 minute ago, LondonNeil said:

Entertaining and showed me that even in London you can get 'wow!'s

Yea they are brilliant videos to watch and I have found them great to watch - even though I have no intention of ever doing AP unless it’s with a smart phone or the Seestar s50, I’m a visual enthusiast and newbie to EAA with my 127 Mak and 102 startravel scopes - setting small targets as I go , great advice you gave also , I agree with every word and could relate to it 

[LondonNeil]

Thanks!  I'm similar,  just visual currently but might look too try some smart phone stuff.   I'll likely get a phone mount just so I can use it as a screen and the kids can all see what the scope is pointing at,  so taking a few videos and the like will cost nothing.   If I get a mount with tracking I might consider a £30 astro camera thingy but no idea what to do with it (referring to the other thread,  yes I know the gti isn't meant for AP)

[RJC]

@LondonNeil it'd be great to hear about your EPs. What did you get? How are you finding them?
Since this post, I have ended up with new equipment altogether, none of which mentioned in my OP ha!

[LondonNeil]

Sure.   Do tell what you've gone for though!

I found very quickly that the cheap supplied 1.25" X 10mm and 25mm plossls had limited fov and were a challenge to use.   I realised my young kids were really struggling to see anything.   The st120 comes with a 45⁰ diagonal which makes viewing anything at more than low altitude very awkward and uncomfortable.  So I changed the diagonal to a 90⁰ 2", and bought some decent 2" EPs.   At 2" you get a bigger fov more often and the usability/ ease of use is much better!

I managed to pick up a pre owned 17mm baader Hyperion and bought the tuning rings (look here

 

[LondonNeil]

Oh.... just lost half my post.   I'll add more later. 

[pipnina]

I have never used either of those scopes, however I started out in a similar price bracket with a skywatcher 130/900 newtonian on an EQ2 mount. For £140 total it wasn't bad but like you it did cause me to tug at my hair and often I went back home unsatisfied because I didn't know what I was doing yet.

But really just because a piece of kit isn't optimal for a task, doesn't mean you can't enjoy it for said task!

I enjoyed trying to take photos of jupiter and M42 through my 250PX dob with my Nikon DSLR, despite it very much not being the right piece of kit for the task! With time you'll get to know the scope you already have, the strengths and weaknesses and eventually the time will come where a bigger and undoubtedly more expensive kit that improves on the "strengths" or excels at the "weaknesses" will meet both your eye and your wallet. As happened with me after a year or so of using the 130/900 when I sold it and moved on to my 250PX which I've used for the last 10-ish years.

Try not to get too stressed out and move at the more comfortable pace, the sky will always be there (even if we can't always see it...)

[LondonNeil]

OK..... I've lost my thread a bit but....

The Hyperion is good quality,  gives a 22mm x 2", 17mm X 1.25, and with tnt tuning rings serval more shorter fl eps to.

I got a 6.5mm Morpheus which although only 1.25 it is easy to use and allowed newbie me to see banding on Jupiter  (barlowed to get x185)  

I also got a 30mm X 2" stellalyra and can see how that will get s lot is use looking at dso.  It's just got such a big fov.   I could even see me getting a 40mm...... I've learnt that it's not all about high magnification!

[RJC]

Sounds great! Thanks for the info on your new kit. (Some of which you will see below)...
So, I ended up getting a really good deal on a package that was opened but never used. The guy said he bought it on a whim 6 months ago and literally hadn't taken it outside.
I now have:
- Evolux 82ED scope
- 45deg and 90deg 2" Star Diagonals, (I know exactly what you mean about the 45deg as I had the same with my ST120)
- Sky Surfer III finderscope
- Baader Hyperion 8mm, 13mm and 24mm EPs

Really happy with everything!

What part of London are you in? I was in SW for 10 years or so but moved back to Cornwall a couple of years ago.

Cheers!


 

[LondonNeil]

That's some serious kit! Well done you!

I'm in Upper norwood se19.

[Mr H in Yorkshire]

I know Upper Norwood from the '80s when living in London, so I must ask, where do you go to see the sky?

Edited February 1 by Mr H in Yorkshire