Tripod upgrade for the AZ75

[IB20]

I currently sit my AZ75 on the SW 1.75” steel tripod and the whole weight of it minus OTA is around 11.4kg. The tripod is also a little bit utilitarian and I’m not massively keen on the leg locking screws. It does hold the mount and all my scopes extremely sturdily though.

I’m thinking of upgrading the tripod but to what? I’d love to reduce weight but not at the cost of introducing increased vibration, loss of solidness or any increased risk of tipping.

The reading I have done suggests the the Gitzo 5533S would be the lightest. With a payload of upto 40kg it would hold the mount and OTAs I have easily but they sound too good to be true (except the cost😅) and I’m not sure if it’d actually hold the mount and scope(s) without introducing some tremors?

The other options would be a Berlebach, but the UNI18 actually weighs more than the SW steel tripod. Would the Report series be too much on the light side to hold the AZ75 + OTA(s)?

Just for reference my scopes are;

AZ75 + Tak 76Q + EP ~ 7.5kg

AZ75 + 102EDR + EP ~ 10kg (most used set-up)

AZ75 + Tak 76Q + 102EDR + EPs ~ 13kg

[IB20]

Perhaps this could be worth a punt? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/tripods/stellalyra-carbon-fibre-tripod-with-38-thread.html

[Olli]

I recently purchased the Ioptron tripod from flo it’s a a bit overkill for what I use at the moment but with a 40kg load I thought it would be future proof and seems to be a really sturdy/ solid tripod considering the weight of it.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Olli

[josefk]

How far do you have to carry it @IB20 (i.e. how important is lower weight really) and what kind of magnification are you thinking about? I ask because...

I have a Berlebach planet / AZ100 for considered sessions and a Gitzo GT4533 / MVH612 for grab and go (that i have to carry a bit of a distance).

• The heavy wooden planet is like mounting on a rock  - basically no meaningful vibes at any mag but the combo weight is 19kg
• The carbon Gitzo combo does have vibes above ~130x (though while focussing only - they do damp down straightaway after letting go the focuser and i don't have obvious vibes when panning).  i don't extend the tripod very much at all BTW but i suspect it would be worse if i did. The tripod/mount combo weight is 4.58kg. i mount a short ~6kg scope package on it.

I had an AZ75 for a few hours and mounted this on a lightweight tripod (i intended to use it for GnG) and unfortunately that combo was also a bit vibey - i felt like i was under mounting the mount so went a different way with the fluid head.

What i don't know is:

• Is the GT55xx meaningfully better damped than the GT4533? - there's a test site somewhere that more or less says there's very little difference between them and both are head and shoulders better than other tripods tested in the sample - I know this because i've looked hard at this as a possible "upgrade" and talked myself out of it as too high a risk at ~£800.
• Are the vibes i have due to the tripod or the mount? Difficult to check but i'm going to mount my fluid head on my planet to rule it in or out.

So too TLDR - i don't think there's a free lunch with a tripod even using magnesium and carbon - i think if you want well damped at higher magnifications you're looking at a middle weight Berlebach and by BB's own descriptions the Uni-18 is better damped than the Report so your looking at the Uni-18 (i know I am 🙂)...

Cheers

Edited October 27, 2023 by josefk

[StevieDvd]

A few you may want to look at:

The ZWO TC40 - 50kg it has a spreader type connector and a weight bag.

I have the Innorel RTC90 but these ones on Amazon look the same and are discounted at the moment.  The plates are changeable, I think the FLO tripod plate can be replaced (if they have alternate plates) but not quick switch ones.

 

[IB20]

3 hours ago, josefk said:

How far do you have to carry it @IB20 (i.e. how important is lower weight really) and what kind of magnification are you thinking about? I ask because...

I have a Berlebach planet / AZ100 for considered sessions and a Gitzo GT4533 / MVH612 for grab and go (that i have to carry a bit of a distance).

• The heavy wooden planet is like mounting on a rock  - basically no meaningful vibes at any mag but the combo weight is 19kg
• The carbon Gitzo combo does have vibes above ~130x (though while focussing only - they do damp down straightaway after letting go the focuser and i don't have obvious vibes when panning).  i don't extend the tripod very much at all BTW but i suspect it would be worse if i did. The tripod/mount combo weight is 4.58kg. i mount a short ~6kg scope package on it.

I had an AZ75 for a few hours and mounted this on a lightweight tripod (i intended to use it for GnG) and unfortunately that combo was also a bit vibey - i felt like i was under mounting the mount so went a different way with the fluid head.

What i don't know is:

• Is the GT55xx meaningfully better damped than the GT4533? - there's a test site somewhere that more or less says there's very little difference between them and both are head and shoulders better than other tripods tested in the sample - I know this because i've looked hard at this as a possible "upgrade" and talked myself out of it as too high a risk at ~£800.
• Are the vibes i have due to the tripod or the mount? Difficult to check but i'm going to mount my fluid head on my planet to rule it in or out.

So too TLDR - i don't think there's a free lunch with a tripod even using magnesium and carbon - i think if you want well damped at higher magnifications you're looking at a middle weight Berlebach and by BB's own descriptions the Uni-18 is better damped than the Report so your looking at the Uni-18 (i know I am 🙂)...

Cheers

Thanks for this. This was my gut feeling, although the CF tripod holds the mount and OTA, it isn’t as rock solid as the steel tripod despite the payload spec. 
I don’t have to carry my set-up too far but it can be little awkward at times. I also know I’d treat it more like a g’n’g if it were lighter. Magnification wise I’m usually hovering around the 140-100x on normal seeing days but do go higher when seeing permits. I’m also fairly short so don’t really need full tripod extension.

I can definitely tolerate some vibration, think I’d be more worried about the feel of under-mounting it like you say and wouldn’t want it feeling top heavy with precious cargo on board. Not sure I have the nerve to pay out £850 for a top of the line Gitzo and find out that it isn’t for me. Buying a heavier Berlebach doesn’t seem to make much sense either despite how aesthetically pleasing they are. 

 

[josefk]

Don't let me put you off if others have more positive experiences - my experience isn't totally negative (far from it) - it's just not perfect (yet) 🙂

[Deadlake]

I'm looking at getting an AZ75, however which tripod to use? Main reason is to have a lighter mount.

At present I use an AZ100 with a TPod-110  that is solid even with two scopes with a total weight of 25 kg in use.

I have asked around and the TPod-90 does not provide enough support when used with a TSA-120, the recommendation is to stay with the TPod-110. 

Looking at carbon fibre tripods I've yet to see any recommendations with the exception of the SuperMount tripods. 
 
Has anyone used an AZ75 with a carbon tripod that provides adequate support with either a 8 or 12 kg scope mounted?
 

[IB20]

On 28/10/2023 at 19:16, Deadlake said:

I'm looking at getting an AZ75, however which tripod to use? Main reason is to have a lighter mount.

At present I use an AZ100 with a TPod-110  that is solid even with two scopes with a total weight of 25 kg in use.

I have asked around and the TPod-90 does not provide enough support when used with a TSA-120, the recommendation is to stay with the TPod-110. 

Looking at carbon fibre tripods I've yet to see any recommendations with the exception of the SuperMount tripods. 
 
Has anyone used an AZ75 with a carbon tripod that provides adequate support with either a 8 or 12 kg scope mounted?
 

I’ll probably know in a month or so. Might wait for Black Friday/Cyber Monday/Made up shopping day, to see if the Innorel RTC90, as recommended by @StevieDvd gets a price reduction. It looks good and solid, not too dissimilar from the Gitzo at 40mm leg diameter but nearly a 1/3rd of the cost. The StellaLyra CF is 36mm and looks very much like the Innorel LT364C which has a 5kg lower max payload.

I think a 4kg weight saving compared to the steel SW  is fairly significant so it’s something I’m keen to try out.

[IB20]

This has very much got me thinking…

https://thecentercolumn.com/tripod-reviews/gitzo/gitzo-gt5533ls-series-5-test-data/ 

[Deadlake]

This as well

http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/VixenAPZ.htm

The Vixen carbon mount gets a positive review when used with the APZ.

I’m sure Roger Vine is more interested in performance then price and to fit it directly to the AZ75 is a £20 adapter.

[Deadlake]

1 hour ago, IB20 said:

This has very much got me thinking…

https://thecentercolumn.com/tripod-reviews/gitzo/gitzo-gt5533ls-series-5-test-data/ 

The pushing supermount tripod territory on price, aka one of these

https://astrograph.net/epages/www_astrograph_net.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/www_astrograph_net/Products/AGSMCYG42

[IB20]

Whilst pursuing the Astrograph website I found this https://astrograph.net/epages/www_astrograph_net.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectID=18647320, which very much looks like one of the SL/Artcise/Innorel clones.

 

[IB20]

On 27/10/2023 at 14:27, josefk said:

How far do you have to carry it @IB20 (i.e. how important is lower weight really) and what kind of magnification are you thinking about? I ask because...

I have a Berlebach planet / AZ100 for considered sessions and a Gitzo GT4533 / MVH612 for grab and go (that i have to carry a bit of a distance).

• The heavy wooden planet is like mounting on a rock  - basically no meaningful vibes at any mag but the combo weight is 19kg
• The carbon Gitzo combo does have vibes above ~130x (though while focussing only - they do damp down straightaway after letting go the focuser and i don't have obvious vibes when panning).  i don't extend the tripod very much at all BTW but i suspect it would be worse if i did. The tripod/mount combo weight is 4.58kg. i mount a short ~6kg scope package on it.

I had an AZ75 for a few hours and mounted this on a lightweight tripod (i intended to use it for GnG) and unfortunately that combo was also a bit vibey - i felt like i was under mounting the mount so went a different way with the fluid head.

What i don't know is:

• Is the GT55xx meaningfully better damped than the GT4533? - there's a test site somewhere that more or less says there's very little difference between them and both are head and shoulders better than other tripods tested in the sample - I know this because i've looked hard at this as a possible "upgrade" and talked myself out of it as too high a risk at ~£800.
• Are the vibes i have due to the tripod or the mount? Difficult to check but i'm going to mount my fluid head on my planet to rule it in or out.

So too TLDR - i don't think there's a free lunch with a tripod even using magnesium and carbon - i think if you want well damped at higher magnifications you're looking at a middle weight Berlebach and by BB's own descriptions the Uni-18 is better damped than the Report so your looking at the Uni-18 (i know I am 🙂)...

Cheers

I’m now thinking of going a different route. The £854 Gitzo is just too much of a gamble and I already have a Tak 3” on a light Starbase aluminium tripod that works great. I’m looking at the Uni 28 which will be rock steady I’m sure and has a bit more height than the 18 (the double clamps lose 10cm height). At 13-14kg with mount it’s not too heavy to move and I don’t have to take it far. It will comfortably handle say a 125mm StellaMira too which I might like in the future… 😈

[globular]

2 minutes ago, IB20 said:

125mm StellaMira too which I might like in the future…

I assume you've seen FLO's black friday offerings?  (sorry)

[IB20]

1 minute ago, globular said:

I assume you've seen FLO's black friday offerings?  (sorry)

😅😅😅 I have now!!! 

[Deadlake]

4 minutes ago, IB20 said:

I’m now thinking of going a different route. The £854 Gitzo is just too much of a gamble and I already have a Tak 3” on a light Starbase aluminium tripod that works great. I’m looking at the Uni 28 which will be rock steady I’m sure and has a bit more height than the 18 (the double clamps lose 10cm height). At 13-14kg with mount it’s not too heavy to move and I don’t have to take it far. It will comfortably handle say a 125mm StellaMira too which I might like in the future… 😈

I was about to go down the carbon route for an AZ75 purchase.

The supermount tripod is around £1500, however talking to people who have BB planets, Uni’s and Avalon tripods the only tripod which provides the support coupled to lightness is the TPod 110. The TPod 90 does not provide the support, so I’ve canned the idea of the super mount given the costs.

[IB20]

18 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

I was about to go down the carbon route for an AZ75 purchase.

The supermount tripod is around £1500, however talking to people who have BB planets, Uni’s and Avalon tripods the only tripod which provides the support coupled to lightness is the TPod 110. The TPod 90 does not provide the support, so I’ve canned the idea of the super mount given the costs.

Yeah that’s the feeling I’m getting. The AZ75 is quite tall and feels top heavy. I wouldn’t want to hang one or two precious OTAs on it knowing there’s a risk it could potentially topple over if the tripod isn’t solid enough for the mount. Plus BB tripods look amazing and in comparison to top end  CF tripods are relatively cheap!

Edited November 23, 2023 by IB20

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Yeah that’s the feeling I’m getting. The AZ75 is quite tall and feels top heavy. I wouldn’t want to hang one or two precious OTAs on it knowing there’s a risk it could potentially topple over if the tripod isn’t solid enough for the mount. Plus BB tripods look amazing and in comparison to top end  CF tripods are relatively cheap!

I agree, the AZ75 goes much better on something like a Uni-28 rather than a CF tripod. It’s still a pretty light setup but feels more stable. Not tried a T-Pod but they are more than I want (can!) spend on a tripod currently, given I have a Planet, Uni-28 and the Gitzo which I’m happy with. Would be interesting to see and use one for reference though.

[Deadlake]

47 minutes ago, Stu said:

I agree, the AZ75 goes much better on something like a Uni-28 rather than a CF tripod. It’s still a pretty light setup but feels more stable. Not tried a T-Pod but they are more than I want (can!) spend on a tripod currently, given I have a Planet, Uni-28 and the Gitzo which I’m happy with. Would be interesting to see and use one for reference though.

As with all items Avalon TPods have gone up over the last two years considerable since I bought mine.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Deadlake

[Deadlake]

Thought this was bet place to post. Managed to purchase an AZ75 this week along with a Vixen  ASG-CB90 carbon tripod.

The result is a stable platform, AZ75 (4.5 kg) and tripod (3.5 kg) puts the total around 8.0 kg.

The tripod legs are very wide and with the spreader very stable, no chance of tipping! 

The tripod is around 50 cm's when folded, very easy to transport.

Very stable from indoor use so far and the pan handle does not bump into the tripod.



One issue I wanted to iron out is balance, I tried to just use a counter weight on the front however this would of not worked with a BV attached, in the end I deployed a YAB (Y axis balance) and now it works perfectly at all angles:

 

The brakes and tension mesh are not engaged.

This a costly purchase as I shall have to duplicate up wit the AZ!00 as well.

One question I have is why does the AZ75 feel a smoother mount then the AZ100, surely not the weight, surely an explanation somewhere?

Added some photos with the tripod folded up for transport



With out the YAB, with just a Vixen plate I think the bag would close



Compared with the AZ100 on a TPod 110


 

Edited January 31 by Deadlake