ZWO Seestar 50

[LDW1]

2 hours ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Another couple of favourites using the Seestars . 

It is amazing every time you view a couple of takes !

[Stu1smartcookie]

Got the Seestars out again this morning and after a little trial and error I managed to find the moon .love the moon when it’s in its crescent phase 

[powerlord]

 

[tonyglossop]

Got a few hours on Friday night first time using the Seestar ( or any scope for that matter )'

I used the built in dew heater and after 1 hr I was down to 70% battery, I plugged in a small powerbank and after around 1 hr it was back to 100%.

By the end of the six hrs at 10.45 the Seestar and tripod were dripping wet with moisture, it doesn't seem to have suffered from that.

This was my first image, I was really impressed as a newcomer to this hobby how easy it was to get a result straight out of the box as it were.

[LDW1]

While you were enhancing the dumbell, you could have adjusted the contrast to a more dark background by using the adjust +- slider on the Stargazing  controls page above the AF. Next time try that slider and watch how it affects the screen image and the final results. Its a nice feature that you have to work with to understand its purpose, how it functions. Nice pics by the way, the SS is amazing !

Edited November 12, 2023 by LDW1

[Giles_B]

9 hours ago, LDW1 said:

While you were enhancing the dumbell, you could have adjusted the contrast to a more dark background by using the adjust +- slider on the Stargazing  controls page above the AF. Next time try that slider and watch how it affects the screen image and the final results. Its a nice feature that you have to work with to understand its purpose, how it functions. Nice pics by the way, the SS is amazing !

I hadn't realised the slider affects the final processed image - that's very helpful to know.

[wvbirder]

You can avoid burnout of M 42's core by taking short captures. The trade off is more noise in shorter exposures but that can be mitigated with noise reduction software. Here's a 5 minute shot of M 42 from my Bortle 4 skies last week. Post processed in Siril and Photoshop. 

[LDW1]

On 13/11/2023 at 15:06, wvbirder said:

You can avoid burnout of M 42's core by taking short captures. The trade off is more noise in shorter exposures but that can be mitigated with noise reduction software. Here's a 5 minute shot of M 42 from my Bortle 4 skies last week. Post processed in Siril and Photoshop. 

Before I do that I am going to try my DGM  NPB  Filter !

Edited November 15, 2023 by LDW1

[tonyglossop]

Probably a daft question, but would a variable nd filter make a difference to say lunar / Planet  exposures in the same way as a shorter exposure time would ? .

I have a 2" filter mount for the seestar.

[bosun21]

25 minutes ago, tonyglossop said:

Probably a daft question, but would a variable nd filter make a difference to say lunar / Planet  exposures in the same way as a shorter exposure time would ? .

I have a 2" filter mount for the seestar.

The Seestar 50 isn’t really suitable for planetary imaging. The variable ND filter is suitable for lunar imo.

[Cosmic Geoff]

16 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

The Seestar 50 isn’t really suitable for planetary imaging.

That's an understatement. Despite its impressive performance in other areas, a device less suited to planetary imaging would be hard to find. 😁

[Ags]

1 hour ago, tonyglossop said:

Probably a daft question, but would a variable nd filter make a difference to say lunar / Planet  exposures in the same way as a shorter exposure time would ? .

I have a 2" filter mount for the seestar.

In general no - shorter exposures help planetary imaging because there is less time for the atmosphere to blur the image. Adding an ND filter will only force you to take longer exposures, causing more blurring. As said above, the SS50 is not suited to planetary imaging, which requires aperture for resolution and focal length to increase the image scale on the chip.

[tonyglossop]

1 minute ago, Ags said:

In general no - shorter exposures help planetary imaging because there is less time for the atmosphere to blur the image. Adding an ND filter will only force you to take longer exposures, causing more blurring. As said above, the SS50 is not suited to planetary imaging, which requires aperture for resolution and focal length to increase the image scale on the chip.

I did know it wasn't any good for planets but I thought seeing that it is fixed to 10 second exposures that the ND filter might make it the equivalent to shortening the exposure time for lunar imaging.

I've onlu used nd filters on normal photography.

[DaveL59]

5 hours ago, tonyglossop said:

I did know it wasn't any good for planets but I thought seeing that it is fixed to 10 second exposures that the ND filter might make it the equivalent to shortening the exposure time for lunar imaging.

I've onlu used nd filters on normal photography.

I had thought to try a video camera tele-extended on the front, using the filter holder @powerlord but other than a very brief test on some trees I've not had the chance. Downside it didn't focus tho it wasn't the brightest of days. At x1.4-x1.5 it'd drop one F-stop which may be affecting the AF function or the image was perhaps too soft/lacking contrast for the system. I didn't get a chance to try the wide x0.7 lens attachment, just been too hectic with work on the nights where it might have been clear enough.

My thinking was to increase the image area on the sensor tho it likely wouldn't make much difference, then try using moon mode and video which might improve the results on the brighter planets. Don't have any ND filters but I was thinking perhaps a c-polarizer as I've a few 49mm ones for the camera lenses I have.

[tonyglossop]

2 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

I had thought to try a video camera tele-extended on the front, using the filter holder @powerlord but other than a very brief test on some trees I've not had the chance. Downside it didn't focus tho it wasn't the brightest of days. At x1.4-x1.5 it'd drop one F-stop which may be affecting the AF function or the image was perhaps too soft/lacking contrast for the system. I didn't get a chance to try the wide x0.7 lens attachment, just been too hectic with work on the nights where it might have been clear enough.

My thinking was to increase the image area on the sensor tho it likely wouldn't make much difference, then try using moon mode and video which might improve the results on the brighter planets. Don't have any ND filters but I was thinking perhaps a c-polarizer as I've a few 49mm ones for the camera lenses I have.

I did buy a 2" filter holder off ebay for 7 quid, I remember seeing a post that said the moon was a bit over exposed, I thought the ND filter might be the answer as if it was a bit dark a few stacked images might work , I am a complete novece at this astronomy so excuse my ignorance, I only have a bit of knowledge about photography and a little photoshop, although I am liking Siril the more videos I watch and try things on it with only the one nights data I have collected so far.

[DaveL59]

33 minutes ago, tonyglossop said:

I did buy a 2" filter holder off ebay for 7 quid, I remember seeing a post that said the moon was a bit over exposed, I thought the ND filter might be the answer as if it was a bit dark a few stacked images might work , I am a complete novece at this astronomy so excuse my ignorance, I only have a bit of knowledge about photography and a little photoshop, although I am liking Siril the more videos I watch and try things on it with only the one nights data I have collected so far.

Moon came out OK on mine IIRC, I'm not an astro-tog personally so this is my first foray tho I got the S50 more for EEVA for the deeper sky stuff. Since I happened to have a tele/wide lens from old video days I figured it worth a play, much like stuffing a barlow into the optical train. If it works, great, if not it didn't cost me anything 😉 

Of course I'm not expecting x170+ telescope views doing this, but just seeing something would be nice for the grandkids, perhaps. Will be interesting to see if ZWO come out with some form of planetary more, possibly with a lens add-on...

[tonyglossop]

5 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

Moon came out OK on mine IIRC, I'm not an astro-tog personally so this is my first foray tho I got the S50 more for EEVA for the deeper sky stuff. Since I happened to have a tele/wide lens from old video days I figured it worth a play, much like stuffing a barlow into the optical train. If it works, great, if not it didn't cost me anything 😉 

Of course I'm not expecting x170+ telescope views doing this, but just seeing something would be nice for the grandkids, perhaps. Will be interesting to see if ZWO come out with some form of planetary more, possibly with a lens add-on...

Like you said if it works great if not nothing lost, I did buy a load of kit early on this year and havn't had a chance to use it, I had it setup outside and the cloud came over just as I was about to go imaging, I have learned the asiair software but bought the seestar as it can be set up in minutes and will capture images in between the clouds ( to be fair my asiair will do the same but after a lot of time setting it up. )   The kit I got is this.   Sky-Watcher Evostar 72 ED DS with Field flattner, Az-GTI-mount, -Az-GTI-mount wedge,  ZWO ASI224MC  CAMERA, SVBONY SV 198 guide scope ,  Canon EOS 600D DSLR Camera with  bare sensor conversion, ASIAIR Plus,  ZWO Automatic Focuser EAF, ZWO EAF Hand Controller.  

[powerlord]

unless you can trick it into under exposing, I don't see how it will help. Unlike the dwarf, at least for now, you have no control over exposure. So for nebulas, etc its gonna go to its max. But for stuff like moons, planets, its going to pick what it thinks is the correct exposure - so fitting an ND will just make it take longer exposures - at least until manual seutter speed is added.

However, for M42 I think you might be right - since it will be defaulting to 10 seconds, fitting an ND might help bring more detail out the core I suppose. But to be honest, I don't think it's got the FL to make much of a difference. If you look at my core - that was with an asi678 and 1000mm FL. at 250 with the s50 sensor, there's only a handfull of pixels in that core anyway - I don't see there being much point imho.

More interesting for manual exposure settings would be planets. Or jupiter and saturn anywae. tiny as they'll be - you would at least be able to make out a bit of colour on them if you could control the exposure, so it'd be great if zwo added that imho - it could be a hidden 'show advanced' setting so no need to complicate things for users, and tbh it would be easy to add. They are a small company, and I think it'll be tricky for them to identify their market demographics tbh - e.g. how many are 'never had a telescope before, what is a nebula?' vs the one eyed men with a bit of a clue vs the seasoned astro chap buying it as a nice wee portable toy. Knowing where to focus your limited budget is key I'd have thought.

tbh, though there's not a rats chance in hell of it happening, I'd love zwo to see the bigger picture and open source the S50 - they'd get the sales they want multipled, and the community would see what they could do with it.

Creative did the seme thing under pressure with the Ender 3 3d printer, and it changed the whole market. This is different as I'd imagine any other company would struggle to develop the hardware, plus the limited market just won't support it. But that all benefits ZWO - by open sourcing it they'd gain a massive developer community and that limited dev budget disappears.

Are ZWO the sort of company to take that sort of leap of faith. I fear not. But then again, they did distrupt the market with the asiair. I'd love to be proved worng and see them do it - I think it'd be amazing to see what the dev community (and you can be sure I'd be in there) could do with it!

[tonyglossop]

27 minutes ago, powerlord said:

unless you can trick it into under exposing, I don't see how it will help. Unlike the dwarf, at least for now, you have no control over exposure. So for nebulas, etc its gonna go to its max. But for stuff like moons, planets, its going to pick what it thinks is the correct exposure - so fitting an ND will just make it take longer exposures - at least until manual seutter speed is added.

However, for M42 I think you might be right - since it will be defaulting to 10 seconds, fitting an ND might help bring more detail out the core I suppose. But to be honest, I don't think it's got the FL to make much of a difference. If you look at my core - that was with an asi678 and 1000mm FL. at 250 with the s50 sensor, there's only a handfull of pixels in that core anyway - I don't see there being much point imho.

More interesting for manual exposure settings would be planets. Or jupiter and saturn anywae. tiny as they'll be - you would at least be able to make out a bit of colour on them if you could control the exposure, so it'd be great if zwo added that imho - it could be a hidden 'show advanced' setting so no need to complicate things for users, and tbh it would be easy to add. They are a small company, and I think it'll be tricky for them to identify their market demographics tbh - e.g. how many are 'never had a telescope before, what is a nebula?' vs the one eyed men with a bit of a clue vs the seasoned astro chap buying it as a nice wee portable toy. Knowing where to focus your limited budget is key I'd have thought.

tbh, though there's not a rats chance in hell of it happening, I'd love zwo to see the bigger picture and open source the S50 - they'd get the sales they want multipled, and the community would see what they could do with it.

Creative did the seme thing under pressure with the Ender 3 3d printer, and it changed the whole market. This is different as I'd imagine any other company would struggle to develop the hardware, plus the limited market just won't support it. But that all benefits ZWO - by open sourcing it they'd gain a massive developer community and that limited dev budget disappears.

Are ZWO the sort of company to take that sort of leap of faith. I fear not. But then again, they did distrupt the market with the asiair. I'd love to be proved worng and see them do it - I think it'd be amazing to see what the dev community (and you can be sure I'd be in there) could do with it!

I appreciate all what you're saying, apart from losing me with the open source stuff ( a bit beyond me 🙂 ) I just thought the exposure time was fixed to 10 seconds full stop , I suppose really for what it costs and what it can achieve we should just use it as is and just do the firmware / software  updates as and when .

[Cosmic Geoff]

I only tried the Seestar once on the Moon and it came out looking correctly exposed (as did the Sun). I think others have had the same experience.  I have not tried to image any planets with it as that seems a total waste of time with a 2" f5 (not least the question of how you make it find the planet in the first place). If I want to image planets, I have an 8" SCT.

[Neil27]

After looking, pondering, and finally selling a few bits of unused Astro gear, pulled the trigger on a SeeStar.

Now the wait, if I get it before Xmas I will feel extremely lucky! Probably be in time for my birthday in March 😆 

[tonyglossop]

15 minutes ago, Neil27 said:

After looking, pondering, and finally selling a few bits of unused Astro gear, pulled the trigger on a SeeStar.

Now the wait, if I get it before Xmas I will feel extremely lucky! Probably be in time for my birthday in March 😆 

I ordered mine from FLO beginning of Sept, arrived first week in Oct, I don't know the waiting time at the moment but I was very pleased with my delivery time.

Hope it arrives quickly for you.

[Giles_B]

On 16/11/2023 at 20:13, powerlord said:

unless you can trick it into under exposing, I don't see how it will help. Unlike the dwarf, at least for now, you have no control over exposure. So for nebulas, etc its gonna go to its max. But for stuff like moons, planets, its going to pick what it thinks is the correct exposure - so fitting an ND will just make it take longer exposures - at least until manual seutter speed is added.

However, for M42 I think you might be right - since it will be defaulting to 10 seconds, fitting an ND might help bring more detail out the core I suppose. But to be honest, I don't think it's got the FL to make much of a difference. If you look at my core - that was with an asi678 and 1000mm FL. at 250 with the s50 sensor, there's only a handfull of pixels in that core anyway - I don't see there being much point imho.

More interesting for manual exposure settings would be planets. Or jupiter and saturn anywae. tiny as they'll be - you would at least be able to make out a bit of colour on them if you could control the exposure, so it'd be great if zwo added that imho - it could be a hidden 'show advanced' setting so no need to complicate things for users, and tbh it would be easy to add. They are a small company, and I think it'll be tricky for them to identify their market demographics tbh - e.g. how many are 'never had a telescope before, what is a nebula?' vs the one eyed men with a bit of a clue vs the seasoned astro chap buying it as a nice wee portable toy. Knowing where to focus your limited budget is key I'd have thought.

tbh, though there's not a rats chance in hell of it happening, I'd love zwo to see the bigger picture and open source the S50 - they'd get the sales they want multipled, and the community would see what they could do with it.

Creative did the seme thing under pressure with the Ender 3 3d printer, and it changed the whole market. This is different as I'd imagine any other company would struggle to develop the hardware, plus the limited market just won't support it. But that all benefits ZWO - by open sourcing it they'd gain a massive developer community and that limited dev budget disappears.

Are ZWO the sort of company to take that sort of leap of faith. I fear not. But then again, they did distrupt the market with the asiair. I'd love to be proved worng and see them do it - I think it'd be amazing to see what the dev community (and you can be sure I'd be in there) could do with it!

I love my Seestar and the ease with which a beginner can get into astro with the ZWO ecosystem. But we should all have open eyes about this relationship - in terms of open source, it is increasingly clear ZWO have been reprehensible in their abuse of open source development.

Cracked Asiair software code shows it is built on modifications of open source astronomy tools (the INDI server, astronomy.net, even parts of SIRIL). Where it supports other manufacturers, ZWO have modified the code to stop the software working with non-ZWO hardware. The code is open source under various LGPL licenses.  ZWO has refused to publish and distribute their modified source code in violation of the licence. They have been warned but still have not complied.

It's rotten behaviour but international copyright law is deep dark and expensive, so who's going to Sue? Not enthusiasts who have developed the original code for no pay in their spare time... https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indilib.org%2Fforum%2Fdevelopment%2F10380-asiair-and-opensource-software-licences.html%3Fstart%3D12%2390031%3AXQ6jVceiroFaqGgGuH08bXO_qfk&cuid=7366295

The ZWO business model is a careful curated but closed ecosystem. It's very doubtful this will change 

incidentally, Apple pioneered this approach (albeit in a slightly different ways and grander scale). So I'm not saying that ZWO are especially villainous, more that this is becoming a successful model that other businesses are replicating.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Giles_B

[powerlord]

Yeh, I would say, not in their defence but just as a sort of 'bigger picture' view - this is pretty much the default way open source is used in companies in my experience. i.e. most large companies use it everywhere,  but never publish changes they make to it. It doesn't make it right. But zwo are in the majority here tbh. The few companies who do "come clean" and publish are very much in the minority.

 

[Giles_B]

Totally agree, ZWO are certainly not alone, and in fairness, it doesn't seem to have an impact on the open software community - overall people still feel willing to contribute. And of course, there is an active community reverse engineering the asiair so it works with other hardware, if you feel tempted to go down that line.