Mars - 13 November 2022

[geoflewis]

Here's a look at Mars in IR and RGB from last night. The images are with the scope at it's native F11 with the ADC in train, so actually coser to F13 (FL = 4700mm).

 

I've resized both images from 96dpi to 192dpi (so x2).

The IR is a the best 10% from 2x6 min SERs, then de-rotated in WinJupos. The RGB is the best 10% of 3x6 min SERs, also de-rotated.

I had hoped to conduct some more experiments at higher amplification, which came out at F20 (FL-7400mm), so I possibly got the barlow lens slightly further away from the sensor than previous nights which reported F11 and F18 respectively, but unfortunately the seeing deteriorated and fog piled in. Nevertheless, here is a single IR that I did get, also the best 10% and resized as best I could to the other 2 images.

The rotation angle is as captured with the north polar cap around 11 o'clock position, wheras WinJupos corrected the earlier images to display north up. It's also slightly more sharpened, hence the darker dark regions, so it's difficult to draw any conclusions. However, on my working screen, there is finer detail all over and especially in the brighter areas of the globe in the lower sampled (F13) image. Hopefully one of these nights I'll be able to get a long enough run to perform some more meaningful comparisons, including in RGB.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by geoflewis

[Kon]

Excellent images with really nice details coming through. The N polar cap is excellent.

[geoflewis]

9 minutes ago, Kon said:

Excellent images with really nice details coming through. The N polar cap is excellent.

Thanks Kostas, yes, the detail was good on screen early on when I was capturing the IR, but I noticed that the seeing already started to fall away in the 2nd IR run. I was intending to capture 3 x IR then 3 x RGB without the barlow, then rinse and repeat with the barlow included. However, things got progressively worse through the first set of RGB and by the time I'd added in the barlow lens and refocussed for the 2nd set it was getting really bad. I pressed on for a bit, then waited to see if it would clear, but it was no good. My observatory was full of fog with everything soaking wet dew, by the time I gave up.

[andy fearn]

lovely images. hopefully the nights will be clearer and you can gather more data. Good luck.👍

[geoflewis]

1 minute ago, andy fearn said:

lovely images. hopefully the nights will be clearer and you can gather more data. Good luck.👍

Thanks Andy, I'm always hoping 😉🤞

[Kon]

53 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

Thanks Kostas, yes, the detail was good on screen early on when I was capturing the IR, but I noticed that the seeing already started to fall away in the 2nd IR run. I was intending to capture 3 x IR then 3 x RGB without the barlow, then rinse and repeat with the barlow included. However, things got progressively worse through the first set of RGB and by the time I'd added in the barlow lens and refocussed for the 2nd set it was getting really bad. I pressed on for a bit, then waited to see if it would clear, but it was no good. My observatory was full of fog with everything soaking wet dew, by the time I gave up.

The weather is not on our side at the moment. 

Is there a reason you don't shoot longer videos? With Mars my understanding is that we can go to 5min? This is what I have been doing. I should try some multiple videos and derotate (my attempts with Jupiter were not very pleasing but you seem to have master it). 

I was thinking the second IR looked softer but like you said it was weather dependent.

 

[geoflewis]

58 minutes ago, Kon said:

The weather is not on our side at the moment. 

Is there a reason you don't shoot longer videos? With Mars my understanding is that we can go to 5min? This is what I have been doing. I should try some multiple videos and derotate (my attempts with Jupiter were not very pleasing but you seem to have master it). 

I was thinking the second IR looked softer but like you said it was weather dependent.

Hi Kostas, I'm actually shooting 6 min SERs, did I say something else by mistake somewhere?

I've also reprocessed the data, going back to how I've previously done it with a little sharpening included during AS3! stacking before Registax. I was trying for a smoother look hence tried something different, but I think the images came out too smooth and not revealing the detail that was there. Here they are again...

There's a more pronounced edge rind, but otherwise I think I prefer these versions. As always I am very interested in what others think.

Edited November 14, 2022 by geoflewis
Boosted saturation in RGB

[neil phillips]

1 hour ago, Kon said:

The weather is not on our side at the moment. 

Is there a reason you don't shoot longer videos? With Mars my understanding is that we can go to 5min? This is what I have been doing. I should try some multiple videos and derotate (my attempts with Jupiter were not very pleasing but you seem to have master it). 

I was thinking the second IR looked softer but like you said it was weather dependent.

 

My post had 10 min video de rotation kon

[neil phillips]

40 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

Hi Kostas, I'm actually shooting 6 min SERs, did I say something else by mistake somewhere?

I've also reprocessed the data, going back to how I've previously done it with a little sharpening included during AS3! stacking before Registax. I was trying for a smoother look hence tried something different, but I think the images came out too smooth and not revealing the detail that was there. Here they are again...

There's a more pronounced edge rind, but otherwise I think I prefer these versions. As always I am very interested in what others think.

Excellent Geof it's getting interesting now. Nearly full

[Kon]

41 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

I'm actually shooting 6 min SERs, did I say something else by mistake somewhere?

I read your initial 2x6 min as 6 captures of 2min. Sorry. The new images look much better despite the edge rind.

[geoflewis]

1 minute ago, neil phillips said:

Excellent Geof it's getting interesting now. Nearly full

Thanks Neil, I just wish the weather would cooperate. I've just looked outside and it's already foggy, with no stars or planets, to be seen....

[geoflewis]

3 minutes ago, Kon said:

I read your initial 2x6 min as 6 captures of 2min. Sorry. The new images look much better despite the edge rind.

No worries and thanks for the feedback on the later versions.

[Space Cowboy]

Super images Geof! Must confess i prefer the smoother version which gives it an almost dare I say it Damian Peach feel 🙂

32" monitors are not very forgiving when it comes to noise 🙂

[geoflewis]

Thanks Stuart, that's very kind of you; now that I've picked myself off the floor....!!

I guess it was that polished DP look that I was after, but I couldn't convince myself about it, they just seemed too smooth, so maybe something between is what I should try for. I asked Richard McKim, BAA Mars Section Director which he prefered and he said that he thought the sharper version had more merit from a scientific content standpoint, so I've gone with that. I will keep experimenting. Cheers.

[Space Cowboy]

13 hours ago, geoflewis said:

Thanks Stuart, that's very kind of you; now that I've picked myself off the floor....!!

I guess it was that polished DP look that I was after, but I couldn't convince myself about it, they just seemed too smooth, so maybe something between is what I should try for. I asked Richard McKim, BAA Mars Section Director which he prefered and he said that he thought the sharper version had more merit from a scientific content standpoint, so I've gone with that. I will keep experimenting. Cheers.

Scientists certainly wouldn't be interested in what I produced over the weekend as conditions have been dire here. You're producing some great detail under the circumstances Geof. Ideally we'd all want to produce sharp smooth shots but UK seeing doesn't always allow it so we have to compromise one for the other at times. 

[geoflewis]

2 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

Scientists certainly wouldn't be interested in what I produced over the weekend as conditions have been dire here. You're producing some great detail under the circumstances Geof. Ideally we'd all want to produce sharp smooth shots but UK seeing doesn't always allow it so we have to compromise one for the other at times. 

Thanks Stuart, unfortunately the seeing has been very poor recently. I've been rating it 3/5 based on recent experience, but in reality it's probably been more like 2/5 - just pleased to be able to see anything. The more frames I can stack the smoother the result, but when I went above 10% the resolution fell away pretty quickly, which I think tells it's own story. The recent fog indicates more stable air I think, but it's been getting so thick here that I was having to push the gain up until eventually I couldn't see anything.

Edited November 15, 2022 by geoflewis

[geoflewis]

Ok, so whilst the weather has been rubbish, I've been experimenting / teaching myself some new processing techniques. I used them for my recent 20 Nov Mars image and quite liked the result, so I've gone back and reprocessed the data from 13 Novemeber. Here are the previous and latest attempts...

What do you all think? Do you like me prefer the new version, which is brighter and I think, smoother and if yes, should I go back and reprocess all this year's Mars images using the new method?

TIA.

 

[skybadger]

I think....

The top one is best for clarity and detail, the lower one looks over bright and washed out slightly. 

[geoflewis]

50 minutes ago, skybadger said:

I think....

The top one is best for clarity and detail, the lower one looks over bright and washed out slightly. 

Thanks, I wondered about that myself, so maybe somewhere between the two….? 🤔

[geoflewis]

Ok @skybadger and anyone else that want's to comment, how about this version please? The original is on the right, V2 in the middle and latest on the left?

A tad more sharpening and less saturation.....🤔

[JohnC]

V2 for me. I think that I can see slightly more detail in this one. But all great images in any case.

 

[geoflewis]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

V2 for me. I think that I can see slightly more detail in this one. But all great images in any case.

Thanks John,

It's a bit of a game and what happens when I don't have any new data to process......🙄. Maybe I should have kept the higher saturation of V2 for V3.....🤔

[Kon]

The left one for me, apart from brightness it seems to have more details? The polar cap colour seems more natural as well, I tend to go to blue/white recently as well. Now you have to tell us what's different in the processing 😉.

[geoflewis]

10 minutes ago, Kon said:

The left one for me, apart from brightness it seems to have more details? The polar cap colour seems more natural as well, I tend to go to blue/white recently as well. Now you have to tell us what's different in the processing 😉.

Thanks Kostas, there are 3 main changes, one in AS3! and two in Registax:

I reduced the sharpening in AS3! from adding back 30% original to adding back 90% original. I tried just about every comination from no sharpening in AS3! to a lot in 10% steps. I found a little sharpening helps with the wavelets, but not too much.

Two things in Registax:

1. I experiement with several histogram settings. I've rarely bothered with the histogram tool previously, but found that by raising the black point to about 25, (NB I tried several points) seemed to help control the edge rind on Mars, and lowering the white point to around 220 (also tried a variety of points) brightened the planet and increased the red/orange colours somewhat. These settings allowing me more room to play with the wavelets in stage 2 below.
2. I switched to using the default wavelets, instead of the Gaussian wavelets, which is what I've always used for many years. I also dropped to Step 0 from Step 1, again this allowing me more room to set the wavelet sliders with finer control.

I also played around with saturation and levels settings in Affinity Photo, but I think the above 3 process changes are the main learning points for me so far. I will keep experimenting, but it's been a fun exercise and no doubt all the settings will respond differently with different data.

I added a bit more saturation to V3 so similar to V2, to get V4 below.

...and before you say it, you're right, I can't stopped playing with the processing. Mainly, I didn't like the muddy brown colour I've been getting, though these redder versions are still very different to the colours that Damian Peach and Martin Lewis are posting......🤷‍♂️

 

[Kon]

Thanks for the detailed walk through. By 

20 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

adding back 90% original

Do you mean, just 10% sharpening in AS!3? I have always used unsharpened images in registax, at least for my captures I seem to get a lot of noise if I take the sharpened version, but I should retry.

This latest one is more vibrant, in a good way.