Another new ASIAir?

[david_taurus83]

??? Already?

 

[geeklee]

The bottom of that poster.  ASIAIR Mini!

[ONIKKINEN]

I wonder what is the point of this. Its not like the AAP was big or bulky.

[vlaiv]

Well there is format that needs to be exploited:

[Simon Pepper]

21 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

I wonder what is the point of this. Its not like the AAP was big or bulky.

Agreed seems pointless just causes more issues when trying to get the software to work on all pieces of hardware they just need to look at Apple here… My AAP with Wi-Fi extender works a treat still don’t need a plus or one half the size. What I do need is a rotator!

[ONIKKINEN]

Component shortages maybe? Maybe the new model has some chip that is more available.

[Elp]

Easy enough to find if it is this:

 

What about the stealthy release of the 220MM?

Edited October 27, 2022 by Elp

[david_taurus83]

I have to admit, they have twisted my arm a little with this. I have a Redcat on an AZGTI with my 6D that doesn't get used as much as it should. With the luxury of having my main setup on a permanent pier I have gotten lazy with regards to setting up from scratch the Redcat. That paired with an old laptop that struggles to manage it all puts me off the effort in. Despite me being a critic of the early ASIAir, it seems to have come a long way with regards to features. I've ordered one from ZWO. Hopefully have it by Christmas 2023 🙂

[Dark Raven]

From technical perspective it is most likely just RPI Compute Module 4 (CM4) without USB/Ethernet hub chip. Size and features seem to mach. CM4 natively supports eMMC storage, external antenna, USB 2.0 only. PCI Express lane that is (in ZWO case) used for USB/ETH hub seems not to be used. In AA+, hub is shared between USB and Ethernet, hence only 2 USB 3.0 ports.

Below is CM4 shown with the antenna on the first photo and (one of many) CM4 adapter board on the second.

 

You can nicely see the internals of different generations below.

On top there is original ASiair which is "nothing else" but stock RPI3 with control software.
In the middle there is ASIAIR PRO, basically RPI4 with proprietary 12v distribution board seen on the right. Given that RPI4 has no external antenna connector this was the main cause of poor WIFI connectivity.
On the bottom there is ASIAIR PLUS, essentially CM4 in proprietary carrier board that integrates USB/ETH hub and 12V power distribution board.

Interesting thing about ASIAIR PRO is that 12V power distribution board can be bought separately, and even combined with Stellarmate.

I was heading this route, but Stellarmate got me frustrated and with RPI4 price hike, I just gave up and bought AA+. Do not get me wrong Stellarmate is powerful and capable peace of acquisition software, it was my impatience and lack of time that got me to ZWO. I still use it for my secondary rig. I have not regrated switching to ZWO for a second.

BTW Stellarmate has developed a monster of AP controller kit that is on hold due to chip shortage. IMHO they should optimize the footprint of the board for easier mounting.

 

For ZWO, introducing ASIAIR Mini makes perfect sense in current point in time. Due to chip shortage, they have modified their product in order to fulfil the demand (with simpler and cheaper device) and they keep you nicely locked within their ecosystem. Quite smart from their perspective.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Dark Raven

[powerlord]

Alll usb2 - why ? I mean it's 2022.. usb2 ??? useless for cameras.

https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asiair-mini

[Dark Raven]

13 minutes ago, powerlord said:

Alll usb2 - why ?

Chip shortage and satisfying demand. Perfectly fine for DSO and nightscapes, only thing that is not suitable for is planetary / solar imaging.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Dark Raven

[Elp]

Possibly because they'll charge more for a usb3 version later on.

[powerlord]

3 hours ago, Dark Raven said:

Chip shortage and satisfying demand. Perfectly fine for DSO and nightscapes, only thing that is not suitable for is planetary / solar imaging.

 

hmm, Id say thats debatable. For stuff like focusing, PAing, etc where you want to be taking lots of images, every image on something like an asi2600 will take an age to download every time. And for storage too if you want to use removable storage it would be painful.

can't really see the problem they are try to solve tbh. for 100 quid saving, you are getting a very very compromised unit - no usb3, no ethernet, 2 less 12v outs.

But hey ho, they clearly have a marketing department and see a market there, so its clearly just not for the likes of me as a user type (got 3 pros but wouldn't be interested in these at all if I was starting out).

I'd have preferred to see more enhancements to the existing software frankly - some things still missing there - angle showing in plate solving, better astro map features for browsing and planning, re alignment every X subs like dithering, etc.

stu

[StevieDvd]

1 hour ago, powerlord said:

...

can't really see the problem they are try to solve tbh. for 100 quid saving, you are getting a very very compromised unit - no usb3, no ethernet, 2 less 12v outs.

...

It has two 12v power connections on each side. So missing usb3 & ethernet (and no sd-card for storage like the AA Plus).

And a little googling shows the insides of the mini in this Internal-Photos-6169166.pdf(PDF from ZWO)

And in summary if you don't read the PDF the Asiair Mini has 2 bespoke ZWO boards with a Rockchip RV1126 processor

Edited October 31, 2022 by StevieDvd
Added internals for mini

[Dark Raven]

Don't get me wrong, I DO think it is overall a "lesser" product. 

25 minutes ago, powerlord said:

can't really see the problem they are try to solve tbh

It is probably "the art of possible" regarding the demand at the current point in time with supply chain disruption. Thing to remember is that ZWO is not OEM, they are system integrator. In contrast to Canon that develops their own CMOS sensors, control boards, housings and optics. ZWO integrates from other OEMs on the market. CMOS from Sony, CM4s from Raspberry PI Foundation with their SW (well parts of it at least). Similar situation in car industry ATM, get your car without the touch screen infotainment now or pay now and wait 8 to 10 months for it.

33 minutes ago, powerlord said:

For stuff like focusing, PAing

This on the other hand is thing of optimising acquisition process. I learned that when I was starting with my old Canon DSLR that had only USB 2.0. Way around that is to bin X2 or even X3 for PA and use Bathinov mask for focus.

As to storage, it appears to be a limit of RPI CM4 (32 GB), it leaves approx. 20 GB for subs and there is USB C for offloading. ZWO ASI2600 has files approx. 52 MB. To fill 20 GB you could take 350 lights with 30 flats, and if you average 3 min per sub you are over 17 hours of lights exposure per night. For darks and biases, you build calibration library. Although with back illuminated 2600, darks are of questionable value.

My point, where there is a will, there is a way. But you are perfectly right in stating that this is not advancement, and it is a step back in fact. I do not expect any significant advancement till CM5 is on the market. There is no question that USB 3.0 is far more convenient, and I would not go back. Life is soooo much easier with AA+.

 

[Dark Raven]

17 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

And a little googling shows the insides of the mini in this Internal-Photos-6169166.pdf(PDF from ZWO)

And in summary if you don't read the PDF the Asiair Mini has 2 bespoke ZWO boards with a Rockchip RV1126 processor

Cool find! Thank you for this. 👍 I stand corrected, totally custom board. This makes even more sense. They are distancing themself from Raspberry PI Foundation supply bottleneck.  

[Lead_weight]

On 31/10/2022 at 09:21, powerlord said:

hmm, Id say thats debatable. For stuff like focusing, PAing, etc where you want to be taking lots of images, every image on something like an asi2600 will take an age to download every time. And for storage too if you want to use removable storage it would be painful.

 

I got an early look at the Mini and used the ASI2600 with mine. During higher speed capture (like taking flats or bias that were a fraction of a second, the Mini was able to write 6 out of 10 frames before it could send one over WIFI to be displayed on my iPad. So capture speed was not an issue. It's likely only a problem for planetary or solar where you want max video frame rates. 

[david_taurus83]

My mini came the other day with impressive speed. It was picked up by FedEx in China on Saturday afternoon and delivered to me on Tuesday morning! 🤯 (You listening RM??)

I had never used an ASIAir before until I had a play last night. Wow! I take all the criticism back! What a fantastic little gadget! I had absolutely 0 issues with it. Everything connected straight away, AZGTI, EAF, 2600MC and WiFi was absolutely fine with me sat indoors, no drop outs or glitches. Everything just worked, polar alignment, even guiding and calibration, as temperamental as the AZGTi usually is. If you have all ZWO kit it really is a no brainer. If that was the case on my main setup I'd probably ditch the mini PC and get a Plus. Well impressed with it overall.