bst starguider or baader zoom

[davehowat]

Hi ,have Hyperion Eyepiece 10mm and an xcel 18mm and was thinking of getting some bst starguider  but would I be better with the baader Hyperion zoom 8to 24 ?

[Carl Au]

The field of view is quite tight at 24 mm with a Baader Zoom. The 25mm Starguider is just about as tight as I remember, so at the 25/24 mm not much difference. You could afford to go past the 8mm and get a 6 or 7 mm Starguider or something similar and add a 25 mm to your kit. I wouldn’t bother with the zoom. That said the Baader zoom is a nice bit of kit

[davehowat]

25 minutes ago, Carl Au said:

The field of view is quite tight at 24 mm with a Baader Zoom. The 25mm Starguider is just about as tight as I remember, so at the 25/24 mm not much difference. You could afford to go past the 8mm and get a 6 or 7 mm Starguider or something similar and add a 25 mm to your kit. I wouldn’t bother with the zoom. That said the Baader zoom is a nice bit of kit

Yeah was looking at bst 5mm and I have a 25mm telvu? Was thinking more of less faffing with a zoom than having to change eye piece ...thanks

[Carl Au]

Oh well a zoom is very convenient, I used nothing else for perhaps 3 years. They are very well regarded on here

[Spile]

The Baader Hyperion zoom and matching Barlow is a wonderful combination and it pairs well with a 2” wide angle, low power eyepiece.

[glafnazur]

I got the Baader zoom not too long ago and was surprised by how much I like it. It's a good piece of kit and I've used it at some stage in every observing session since I bought it.

[Alex Mac]

It was comments from experienced observers on here that persuaded me to lash out on the Baader zoom, so I'm just waiting for delivery from FLO to try it out. The kit eyepieces on my Evostar are Ok, but a good reminder that eyepieces are in the optical chain and not to be skimped on.

[sorrimen]

I’ve got a full set of BSTs and Baader zoom. Both have their uses. If you like planetary as much as or more than DSOs then absolutely pick up the zoom as it’s just fantastic for it. Other than that I only use it for deepsky on targets like the ring where zooming helps, or when I would otherwise use a 12mm or 8mm for the slightly wider FOV.

[davehowat]

Thanks guys ,yeah think the zoom may be the way to go ,to be honest I just love buying stuff ,so just got a 5 mm bst lol .will sit nicely beside the baader zoom

[Stu1smartcookie]

The Baader 8-24 has , i believe the Best FOV in any of the zoom EPs out there in that mag range and will be an excellent addition to your EP collection 

As others have noted , there are times when its the only EP you actually need for a whole session . 

I have used many zoom EPs and the baader is the best , imo .  A good choice 

 

[Carl Au]

The APM zoom has a wider field of view, it’s also more expensive than the Baader and harder to get hold of. 

[SzabiB]

I don't like this topic....made me want to buy the Baader zoom + barlow 😪

Just finishing my BST collection at the moment and already looking for new eyepieces.

Just a question, anyone tried the Baader zoom for planetary imaging with phone attached to it? 

[Second Time Around]

Despite having high quality fixed focal length eyepieces, I use my zooms a lot more often.  The zoom plus a Barlow lens and a low power, wide field eyepiece is often all I use the whole evening.  

Fixed focal length eyepieces may be slightly better corrected when compared with a zoom at the same magnification.   But that's not always a fair comparison as that magnification may not be the optimum for a given object.  This is because one of the many advantages of a zoom is to be able to dial in precisely the best focal length.  For instance, this may be 13mm or even 13.1mm, which may actually show more detail than shorter or longer fixed focal length eyepieces - even the best quality ones.

I especially like the ability to increase the magnification to make use of brief moments of good seeing (a steady atmosphere).  It takes more time to swap out an eyepiece, and the opportunity may then be missed.  You can't see anything if you haven't got an eyepiece in the focuser!

Zooms also enable the field of view to be varied to frame an object to get the prettiest view.  For this reason I particularly like them for clusters.

They're also handy when you're using filters.  You don't have to unscrew and then replace the filter when you change magnifications.

Additionally, if you lose sight of an object at high power you can simply and quickly zoom out to find it again.

Many of those who post here and advocate fixed focal lengths are experienced observers.  It's so easy to forget what it was like as a beginner!  A zoom eyepiece enables beginners to easily learn what difference a change of magnification makes on all the various classes of object.  It also shows them what focal lengths would be most useful to their eyes, their telescope, and their observing conditions.  They then have the option of buying/not buying the most appropriate fixed focal length eyepieces for them. 

For these reasons I'd always recommend that beginners buy a zoom as their first eyepiece.

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Second Time Around
Added an extra plus for a zoom.

[Carl Au]

Like others have said the matched Barlow is excellent. Very handy for white light solar in particular 

[sorrimen]

10 hours ago, SzabiB said:

I don't like this topic....made me want to buy the Baader zoom + barlow 😪

Just finishing my BST collection at the moment and already looking for new eyepieces.

Just a question, anyone tried the Baader zoom for planetary imaging with phone attached to it? 

Haven’t tried, but I imagine it would be too wide. My gosky one would have no chance, but apparently the nexyz has the same 55mm diameter as the bhz. Not sure whether it would work or not!

[Second Time Around]

I have several Barlows including the 2.25x Baader.  However, I'd recommend that rather than getting the 2.25x Baader you get a dual power 1.5x/2x.  This will be less expensive and also far more versatile.

This is because early in the session you can choose which amplification is best for the type of target, and most importantly the seeing conditions on the night.  Here in the UK, and so frequently under the jetstream, magnification is limited not only by the size of the scope but also by the atmospheric seeing. Depending on the scope you have, it's likely that you wouldn't be using the really high powers very often.

There's another reason to use the lowest amplication possible.  This is because most zooms (including the Baader) have the widest apparent field of view at the shortest focal length.  For instance, if you want the equivalent of a 6mm focal length then using a Baader zoom at 9mm with a 1.5x Barlow will give you a wider field of view than using the zoom at 12mm with a 2x Barlow.

Not all 2x Barlows can also be used at 1.5x, but the ones that can don't cost any more. These ones allow the black lens cell to be unscrewed from the body of the Barlow and then screwed into the filter thread at the bottom of an eyepiece to give 1.5x. 

Another advantage is that you can get an even higher power than 2x.  This is achieved by adding an inexpensive extension tube(s) just above the black lens cell.  There is a limit to this, but it does give a lot of flexibility at low cost.  For instance, Baader do an 18.5mm extension tube that will increase the magnification of most Barlows by a little over 0.25x.  You can even stack them to get an extra 0.25x or so for each extension tube, although the image will eventually deteriorate if you go much over 3x.  Available here for £16:  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-dt-4-1-31-8mm-nosepiece-extension-18mm-long.html

The Barlow I'd suggest is this: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/astro-essentials-125-2x-barlow-with-t-thread.html.  Unlike most similar ones it also has a thread for 1.25 inch filters on the bottom, plus a T-thread (M42) on the top for connecting cameras.  What's more it costs only £25! 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Second Time Around

[wookie1965]

21 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

Despite having high quality fixed focal length eyepieces, I use my zooms a lot more often.  The zoom plus a Barlow lens and a low power, wide field eyepiece is often all I use the whole evening.  

Fixed focal length eyepieces may be slightly better corrected when compared with a zoom at the same magnification.   But that's not always a fair comparison as that magnification may not be the optimum for a given object.  This is because one of the many advantages of a zoom is to be able to dial in precisely the best focal length.  For instance, this may be 13mm or even 13.1mm, which may actually show more detail than shorter or longer fixed focal length eyepieces - even the best quality ones.

I especially like the ability to increase the magnification to make use of brief moments of good seeing (a steady atmosphere).  It takes more time to swap out an eyepiece, and the opportunity may then be missed.  You can't see anything if you haven't got an eyepiece in the focuser!

Zooms also enable the field of view to be varied to frame an object to get the prettiest view.  For this reason I particularly like them for clusters.

They're also handy when you're using filters.  You don't have to unscrew and then replace the filter when you change magnifications.

Many of those who post here and advocate fixed focal lengths are experienced observers.  It's so easy to forget what it was like as a beginner!  A zoom eyepiece enables beginners to easily learn what difference a change of magnification makes on all the various classes of object.  It also shows them what focal lengths would be most useful to their eyes, their telescope, and their observing conditions.  They then have the option of buying/not buying the most appropriate fixed focal length eyepieces for them. 

For these reasons I'd always recommend that beginners buy a zoom as their first eyepiece.

 

Which zooms would you recommend I have the celestron 8-24mm 

[davehowat]

5 hours ago, wookie1965 said:

Which zooms would you recommend I have the celestron 8-24mm 

I had that one last time I did astronomy about 7 years ago ,found it alright but the baader zoom has better reviews,,it is 4 times dearer Tbh lol

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, wookie1965 said:

Which zooms would you recommend I have the celestron 8-24mm 

In the US at least, only $46 separates the BHZ from APM Super Zoom, so I would err toward the latter if you can wait for it to come back in stock and if the price differential is similar there in the UK.

[Second Time Around]

On 22/10/2022 at 17:29, wookie1965 said:

Which zooms would you recommend I have the celestron 8-24mm 

Here are some thoughts on the zooms I've used so far:

Hyperflex 9-27mm.

I compared it with my Baader during the day on my shed. Even though the focal lengths are lower, the actual field of view at 27mm is about the same as the Baader 8-24mm at 24mm. Nor was it as sharp as the Baader in my f/6 refractor. I was planning to try it on the sun with my Quark, but there were no sunny days or clear nights before I passed it on to two of my grandkids to use with the 70mm f/10 I bought them for Xmas. Not surprisingly, it was better at f/10.  Not compatible with a Dioptrx astigmatism corrector.

Svbony 7-21mm.

I tested it on a very low down Saturn, and surprisingly found that on my f/6 refractor it was as good as the Baader on axis. Sharpness fell off somewhat off axis and the field of view was quite a bit smaller. However, trying it on prominences with my Quark it was way behind the Baader, seemingly because of lower contrast. I bought this firstly for outreach rather than risking my Baader zoom. Secondly, it's very small and light, even compared to other Svbony models, so I thought it might therefore be useful in binoviewers. I need to test it further at night when my binoviewers come back from repair, but will almost certainly keep it for the reasons given. Dioptrx compatible with O-ring.

Celestron 8-24mm.

The version I bought was the spotting scope one, so it might be different to the astro model. The first thing I noticed was that it was even less parfocal than my Baader. In fact, none of these 4 zooms are parfocal (no refocusing required when changing power) to my aged eyes, but might be to someone younger. The field of view was also smaller. What disqualified it completely though was that it wasn't threaded for filters or screw in Barlows (the astro model is). I therefore returned it without further testing.  Dioptrx compatible with O-ring.

Baader 8-24mm.

This is much more expensive than those above, and not surprisingly outclassed all of them, both in sharpness/contrast and field of view. It's by far my most used eyepiece, although I also own a selection of quality fixed focal length eyepieces. Dioptrx compatible with O-ring.  The only downside, that's really important only for binoviewing with a Dioptrx, is that unlike most zooms the eyelens rotates when zooming.

APM 7.7-15.4mm Superzoom

I've just got this and been able to use it only briefly.  Easily the best of all, but then it's a lot more expensive.  Wide, almost constant 66 degree field of view.  In fact the field of view is wider at 15.4mm than the Baader at 24m.  Despite being claimed as parfocal, only so from about 7.7mm to 12mm for me, probably fully to someone younger.  Dioptrx compatible with M37 to M43, or better still M37 to M42, adapter.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Second Time Around

[Second Time Around]

17 hours ago, Louis D said:

In the US at least, only $46 separates the BHZ from APM Super Zoom, so I would err toward the latter if you can wait for it to come back in stock and if the price differential is similar there in the UK.

£237 for the Baader, £379 for the APM here in the UK.

[Louis D]

BHZ = $309 with sales tax added making it closer to $334 plus shipping

ASZ = $429 in the US with sales tax added on making it closer to $460 plus shipping

ASZ = $356 direct from APM Germany after converting from Euros to USD, plus no sales tax due to international purchase.  International shipping will be somewhat higher, but not $100+ higher.  No import tariffs on purchases under $800, either.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Louis D

[Louis D]

Alright, to be fair, I could order a BHZ from FLO for about $225 (plus shipping would be $248).  Again, no import tariff or sales tax.  In that respect, the ASZ is $131 more (before shipping) when importing from Europe.  That's still less than the $162 differential ordering in the UK.  I have no idea why both zooms are so much more expensive when ordered from US dealers.  Perhaps that extra 25% tariff on imports from a certain country?  Funny, it doesn't get imposed on direct imports by individuals.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Louis D
Corrected BHZ to ASZ

[Spile]

If you get the Baader (an excellent choice by the way) then I would strongly recommend getting the matching Barlow.

[davehowat]

Ok so I can now blame the lounge ,baader zoom ordered and Barlow as wel ,YOLO indeed