10”Dob ( f4.7) eyepieces

[Zermelo]

OK, a bit more from me. I haven't used the Superview on my fastest scope as it doesn't have a 2" focuser, though the FLO description (and other sites) does state that it's suitable for F/5. But as you say, the acceptability or otherwise of views is a very subjective matter.

The Stellalyra/GSO/Revelation Superview is an Erfle variant with five elements. It's not as well corrected at the edges as the more exotic designs, which are significantly more expensive (and significantly heavier in some cases). Some observers who have experienced those premium eyepieces would find the Superview edge aberrations too annoying, and perhaps restrict its use to no faster than F/6 or F/7. But the OP for this thread specifically excluded high end eyepieces, and the Superview seems to represent decent performance at that price point. If you have deeper pockets, you might consider a TV/Pentax/ES alternative.

There are threads on SGL here and CN here.

 

[Pixies]

The Aero ED variants get lots of recommendations for a reasonably-priced 2" eyepiece. I still have the 35mm, but have just sold my old 30mm one.

Can't see anywhere with them in stock though.

[bosun21]

What about the 2” Panaview?

[Alan White]

In my old 10" I used the following and all were great.
No coma corrector etc either.

APM UFF 30mm, really good to edge, super throughput and colour.
Morpheus 17.5mm as above
Pentax XW10mm as above
Pentax XW7mm as above

None of them cheap, all super in the OOUK 10 that I used to own, work well in most scopes,
have kept all except the 17.5

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

12 minutes ago, Pixies said:

The Aero ED variants get lots of recommendations for a reasonably-priced 2" eyepiece. I still have the 35mm, but have just sold my old 30mm one.

Can't see anywhere with them in stock though.

Must admit i had a 50mm and a 30mm Aero in the past and they worked for me ... the 50mm was a bit of a " look at all the sky in one go" EP ( not quite but you know what i mean ) .I am probably going for the 34mm SVBony Aspheric and will definitely invest in a quality Zoom EP , But Whether that means a Baader , im not sure as i honestly dont think there is a massive difference between the Baader and SVBony zooms . Some , yes , but £150 's worth ... with my er slightly ageing eyes ?

Thank you for all the above comments. In summary i would like to look through a really high end EP before i properly decide . I am realistic about cost but EP's are so important ( obviously ) and one can keep making the same mistakes over and over again . Of course EP's are subjective and will suit some whilst others may disagree . The two Nirvanas that i have bought are fine quality and are very good value . 

Stu

[Pixies]

27 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

and will definitely invest in a quality Zoom EP

There's a Baader zoom and matching barlow for £210 on UK Astro Buy and Sell just now.

[Carbon Brush]

Haven't checked if it is the item, but there is one in SGL for sale.

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, Pixies said:

The Aero ED variants get lots of recommendations for a reasonably-priced 2" eyepiece. I still have the 35mm, but have just sold my old 30mm one.

Can't see anywhere with them in stock though.

The Lacerta branded ED 30mm and 40mm are in stock around the European mainland.  Perhaps @FLO could stock them locally to the UK for y'all.

[PeterC65]

5 hours ago, Pixies said:

The Aero ED variants get lots of recommendations for a reasonably-priced 2" eyepiece. I still have the 35mm, but have just sold my old 30mm one.

Can't see anywhere with them in stock though.

I'm after an Aero ED 35mm. I did consider buying your 30mm but decided it wasn't quite what I needed.

The 35mm is out of stock everywhere but there does appear to be a clone from TS-Optics available.

 

[Astro_Dad]

5 hours ago, Pixies said:

The Aero ED variants get lots of recommendations for a reasonably-priced 2" eyepiece. I still have the 35mm, but have just sold my old 30mm one.

Can't see anywhere with them in stock though.

I looked into these some time ago, and was informed by a retailer that they have been discontinued (OVL versions). Note above with interest that the Lacerta and other equivalents still available though. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Astro_Dad

[Zermelo]

7 hours ago, Alan White said:

APM UFF 30mm, really good to edge, super throughput and colour

I forgot about this one, which seems to get consistently good reviews (and has 9 elements in 5 groups, so it has a fighting chance of being better corrected than the Erfles) and isn't as pricey as the top-end widefields.

It's funny how things happen - within a few minutes of me reading the latest comments on this thread, I got one of those alerts from an auction site - "hey, you remember you were looking at that nice item a week ago, and never did anything about it? Well, it's ending in 15 minutes ..."

That item happened to be a second-hand 30mm UFF, but the Altair version rather than the APM (much debate on CN about whether they're absolutely identical, but optically they're the same). I would usually have passed, but ... I saw the reserve was under half the new price, and there were no bids. So I put in a cheeky snipe with no expectations, but it turned out I was the only bidder.

So it will be interesting to compare it with the Stellalyra, when it arrives, and if my modest mount can take the extra weight (it's twice as heavy as the SL !) Otherwise it will sit on the shelf until I get around to buying the Big Dob.

[Louis D]

2 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

So it will be interesting to compare it with the Stellalyra, when it arrives, and if my modest mount can take the extra weight (it's twice as heavy as the SL !) Otherwise it will sit on the shelf until I get around to buying the Big Dob.

The Altair version is reportedly heavier due to having a stainless steel barrel.  The APM version uses aluminum.  My 30mm APM UFF weighs 548g by my scale.

Good job snagging it for half retail. 

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Astro_Dad said:

Note above with interest that the Lacerta and other equivalents still available though.

Not so much still available as a new production run.  Notice that the 35mm ED is not available from Lacerta.  Apparently, they decided it wouldn't be a good enough seller to add it to their production order.

[Alan White]

14 hours ago, Zermelo said:

I forgot about this one, which seems to get consistently good reviews (and has 9 elements in 5 groups, so it has a fighting chance of being better corrected than the Erfles) and isn't as pricey as the top-end widefields.

It's funny how things happen - within a few minutes of me reading the latest comments on this thread, I got one of those alerts from an auction site - "hey, you remember you were looking at that nice item a week ago, and never did anything about it? Well, it's ending in 15 minutes ..."

That item happened to be a second-hand 30mm UFF, but the Altair version rather than the APM (much debate on CN about whether they're absolutely identical, but optically they're the same). I would usually have passed, but ... I saw the reserve was under half the new price, and there were no bids. So I put in a cheeky snipe with no expectations, but it turned out I was the only bidder.

So it will be interesting to compare it with the Stellalyra, when it arrives, and if my modest mount can take the extra weight (it's twice as heavy as the SL !) Otherwise it will sit on the shelf until I get around to buying the Big Dob.

I saw that one come up on the auction site,
Looks very alike to the APM excepting the shiney bits and the green finish, 
should be good, saving grace is that you will use it in the dark so be unable to see the green 🤣
 

[Zermelo]

On 29/06/2022 at 08:48, Zermelo said:

OK, a bit more from me. I haven't used the Superview on my fastest scope as it doesn't have a 2" focuser, though the FLO description (and other sites) does state that it's suitable for F/5. But as you say, the acceptability or otherwise of views is a very subjective matter.

The Stellalyra/GSO/Revelation Superview is an Erfle variant with five elements. It's not as well corrected at the edges as the more exotic designs, which are significantly more expensive (and significantly heavier in some cases). Some observers who have experienced those premium eyepieces would find the Superview edge aberrations too annoying, and perhaps restrict its use to no faster than F/6 or F/7. But the OP for this thread specifically excluded high end eyepieces, and the Superview seems to represent decent performance at that price point. If you have deeper pockets, you might consider a TV/Pentax/ES alternative.

There are threads on SGL here and CN here.

 

I had chance to do a quick follow-up on this last night.

I took out a Skymax 127 (F12.7ish) and a Bresser AR-102S (F5.9), and I compared the Superview with the Altair UFF 30mm that I recently acquired (both in 2" formats).

In the Skymax, I had a look at a few open clusters in both EPs, which filled the field and allowed the edges to be asessed. In the Superview I could detect astigmatism within the outer 15% of the field (estimated as best I could by eye) and it was quite obvious in the outer 10% - stars were smeared quite a bit. There also seemed to be a bit of distortion of the field as a whole at the very edge, but I'm not sure if this was just my reaction to the astigmatism or whether there was some (barrel?) distortion as well. The stars in the majority of the field were sharp, but the background was light (as I expected) given the larger exit pupil, the time of year, the time of night, local light pollution, a bit of moon, ...

The first thing I noticed on inserting the UFF was that my mount gears groaned audibly under the weight. When it had recovered, I took my first look through the new EP. Looking at the central portion first, the stars appeared to be focussed a little tighter, and the background was a little darker, giving an improved contrast and overall a more pleasing view. But, while obvious, I wouldn't say that the difference was dramatic. At the edge of the field the difference was very obvious. I could detect no astigmatism, even at the field stop, or any other distortions. That was interesting in itself, because I know that longer focal length EPs have shown up some astigmatism in my own eyes before now, but not here. I didn't try to measure the relative TFOVs. The UFF claims 70° AFOV versue the 68° for the Superview. The difference felt more than that, but it might have been down to the UFF's crispness out to the edges. One thing I did notice was that I couldn't access the field stop easily in either EP with the eyecup up. I much preferred it folded down (which was a bit easier to do on the Superview).

On to the faster Bresser, which would be expected to show up differences more obviously. I had a general sweep of the milky way in Cygnus to fill the field. Again, I couldn't see any edge distortions in the UFF. The Superview astigmatism zone was slightly larger here, perhaps 20% of the distance from the edge. but not that much difference with the view in the Skymax.

So, with the list prices currently at £59 and £185, it comes down to your personal tolerance for astigmatism. I didn't see so much difference in the image as a whole as I might have expected, though the UFF was more pleasing, well worth what I paid for it second hand, and I suspect that it might be shown off to better effect in a different scope. Personally I still think the Superview gives a decent performance for the price in my scopes, but if pushed it to F/5 or beyond I think it might tip the equation.

[EDIT 24/08/22: see here for another review of the Superview]

Edited August 24, 2022 by Zermelo
see last line

[Stu1smartcookie]

That was a very interesting comparison. @Zermelo. 

Nice one !

Stu

 

[badhex]

I have both the 35mm TS-Optics version and the 40mm Lacerta version of the Paragon/Aero ED clones - although AFAIK technically the 35mm was not part of the original TMB designed lineup. It seems to be a 'new' EP built by KUO with the same design as the 30mm and 40mm.

The 35mm has had the most use and I really like it as a widefield search and survey EP. I only got the 40mm a couple of months ago, so I cannot say definitively which is 'better' but the 35mm definitely seems to perform better in my F5.9 ZS73 than the 40mm. Both have some astigmatism in the outer ~20% but I don't think this is enough to discount them considering the price (after all, a 41mm Panoptic is at least 4x the cost of the 40mm Paragon!).

If you're looking at 30mm, I would probably strongly consider the APM (et al.) UFF over the Aeros. I have the 24mm UFF, and assuming that the quality of the 30mm is to the same standard - which most seem to say it is - then it's  almost certainly going to be better than the Paragon clones.

Edited July 6, 2022 by badhex

[badhex]

I forgot to add that I have the Superview 30mm also. I have not tried it directly head-to-head against the Paragon/Aero EDs but I wasn't a big fan of this EP - I much prefer the 35mm Paragon. Maybe I'll dig it out and try them head to head in my ZS73.

[badhex]

Hello @Stu1smartcookie

Not sure where you landed on this topic, but I managed to get round to checking the GSO 30mm against the 35mm and 40mm Paragon ED clones in My F5.9 ZS73, albeit in daytime. 

So both the GSO and Paragon clones show aberrations (astigmatism) in the outer edge, but it seems to be a lot worse in the GSO. I would estimate that only the very center 30% of the GSO is sharp, worsening significantly as you reach the edge. The Paragons seem to be sharp in the center 60-70%, and not as strongly affected in the outer 30-40%

More disturbing (and obviously much more pronounced due to daytime viewing) is the lateral chromatic abberation in the GSO. I've included an image below which shows the extent to which the GSO shows this. As you can see, almost immediately out of the centre 20% of the field, strong red and blue fringing occurs, worsening significantly towards the edge. I tested this on a more distant object, a narrow metal chimney on a distant roof although I couldn't take a picture as the phone wouldn't focus correctly. I panned left to right to test both the focus and CA, and sure enough the CA was visible as soon as you start to move outside the inner 20% and was extremely disturbing at the outer 10%.

Again this is visible to an extent in both the Paragons but to a much less disturbing degree. I would say visible colours were a much lighter violet, and again much further out to the edge than the GSO. 

Obviously, you should take this with a pinch of salt given that it is daytime viewing - this may be much less visible in at night and certainly I have not notice CA in the Paragons. That said, if funds allow I personally wouldn't recommend the GSO in a very fast scope given how it performs in my F5.9.

Edited July 10, 2022 by badhex

[cajen2]

Can anyone confirm what I think I read somewhere recently - that the APM UFF 30mm and Celestron Ultima Edge 30mil are the same EP?

[Louis D]

Besides Celestron Ultima Edge, the APM UFF series is also sold as the Meade Series 5000 UHD, Orion Ultra Flat, Sky Rover Ultra Flat Field, Altair Ultraflat, TS-Optics UFF, and Tecnosky Ultra Flat Field.  There may be differences in barrel material and undercuts leading to weight differences.  All are made by Kunming United Optics (KUO).  Choose whichever brand meets your budget, ergonomics, appearance, and weight requirements.

[cajen2]

Cheers, Louis, very helpful.