ZWO ASI 533MM-Pro Cooled Mono Camera

[FLO]

Our first stock delivery of this long awaited and much discussed camera is expected mid/late May 🙂 

ZWO ASI 533MM-Pro Cooled Mono

 

[SteveNickolls]

He, he ordered last night. 👍

Cheers,

Steve

[FLO]

47 minutes ago, SteveNickolls said:

He, he ordered last night. 👍

Well done that man 🤗

Much appreciated, 

Steve 

[Craney]

This one is going to test my resolve......

533MM or a new sofa......??   

[Skyline]

Sofa is hard to beat...

[Gonzo]

Any idea about when the uncooled version will come out and at what price please?

[Gonzo]

On 25/06/2022 at 09:36, Gonzo said:

Any idea about when the uncooled version will come out and at what price please?

found the answer... the uncooled version is no more...

 

[Adam J]

30 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

found the answer... the uncooled version is no more...

 

That just confirms that the market doesn't really understand the technology lol. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Adam J

[Gonzo]

It's a shame, I would have been interested in the uncooled version (and yes I've read all the typical answers such as "don’t bother just buy a cooled camera”)...

[PadrePeace]

Should have been uncooled in the first place. Market research? Who did they ask?

[Adam J]

I think that the thing here is that the lack of amp glow, the low read noise, the high QE and the very low dark current combine to mean that the advantages to cooling are minimal under most conditions. Perhaps someone with the camera can perform an experiment to show this, a short stack with cooling on followed by one with it off???

Assuming that your going for Gain 200 then the read noise is about 1.3e that is still larger than the dark current even for a 60 second exposure at +20c at about 1.1e, and your are unlikely to need much longer exposures so long as your scope is faster than F5, on something like a RASA at F2 cooling would just be a waste of money.

When you consider the other noise sources it is very difficult to argue that at ambient temperatures of up to 20c this chip really requires cooling. 

Looks like Player one astronomy will be offer in a model with passive cooling though even if ZWO have been incorrectly convinced that this is not a good idea, despite originally clearly grasping that it is possible with this sensor as they tried to offer it as an option. 

My prediction for the future is that as advancements in CMOS continue cooling will simply `no longer be required for astronomy cameras at least in UK conditions at first.  Its just going to take consumers and retailers some time to get their head around that idea though. 

Adam 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Adam J

[Gonzo]

I will get the Saturn-M SQR PlayerOne camera for my next little project. Anyway, that's it for this thread

[Adam J]

Someone subconsciously heard my request for +20c its a IMX571 but the dark current and read noise are in the same ball park. 

Please lobby ZWO to being out the uncooled IMX533 camera. 

Adam

[iantaylor2uk]

I think these cameras are also sold in Asia, USA, the Middle East etc where temperatures could easily reach 40C. You can always switch the cooling off.

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, iantaylor2uk said:

I think these cameras are also sold in Asia, USA, the Middle East etc where temperatures could easily reach 40C. You can always switch the cooling off.

and Norway and Iceland and Alaska, who are potentially paying for cooling they don't need, its about the additional cost which is likely a 300 - 400 pound saving if you don't need the cooling. If you had it why would you not use it anyway. 

Adam

[andrew s]

5 minutes ago, Adam J said:

and Norway and Iceland and Alaska, who are potentially paying for cooling they don't need, its about the additional cost which is likely a 300 - 400 pound saving if you don't need the cooling. If you had it why would you not use it anyway. 

Adam

While the ambient temperature may not require cooling regulation of the temperature to a given value makes it easier to apply darks, flats etc. 

Regards Andrew 

[Adam J]

6 minutes ago, andrew s said:

While the ambient temperature may not require cooling regulation of the temperature to a given value makes it easier to apply darks, flats etc. 

Regards Andrew 

In the case of older cameras I would agree but not in the case of the latest IMX5xx series sensors. They are free from ampglow so dont require perfectly matched calibration frames and have very few hot pixels that are removed by an approximate matching dark. If you have the money then why not get the cooled one, but lots of people cant afford to pay for things that they dont strictly require. 

Anyway ill not labour the point further now, another make is offering a passively cooled model, so its not like ZWO are the only option. Over the next few years people / consumers will naturally slowly acclimatise to the idea that cooling is not as important as it used to be. These things take time. 

Adam 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Adam J

[FLO]

3 hours ago, Adam J said:

Please lobby ZWO to being out the uncooled IMX533 camera. 

I see where you are coming from, modern sensors are less dependent on cooling, but demand for cooled cameras remains significantly higher than uncooled. 

HTH, 

Steve 

[CCD-Freak]

The new ASI432MM camera looks interesting with it's larger pixels and low noise. 

[Adam J]

24 minutes ago, FLO said:

I see where you are coming from, modern sensors are less dependent on cooling, but demand for cooled cameras remains significantly higher than uncooled. 

HTH, 

Steve 

You would know about demand more than anyone else Steve so I will not argue that, I am providing a technical argument for a uncooled IMX533 camera as opposed to a commercial one. 

Markets always take time to adjust to new ideas, by the time we are talking about IMX7xx sensors then I am sure the direction of technological travel will have become apparent to the average consumer. 

Adam

[Gonzo]

38 minutes ago, FLO said:

I see where you are coming from, modern sensors are less dependent on cooling, but demand for cooled cameras remains significantly higher than uncooled. 

HTH, 

Steve 

Probably because we keep reading on forums the same response over and over: don't bother with an un-cooled camera, save and go straight to a cooled one.

All the newcomers to the hobby go for that "cooled" camera, increasing the demand for it...

Over on CloudyNights (and probably here too), there are countless stunning images taken with un-cooled cameras. The latest CMOS sensors are getting more and more efficient.

Yes an un-cooled camera has cons, but ... they can work if you're on a "small to moderate budget" (not everyone can afford top of the range mounts/scopes/cameras).

[Adam J]

5 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

Probably because we keep reading on forums the same response over and over: don't bother with an un-cooled camera, save and go straight to a cooled one.

All the newcomers to the hobby go for that "cooled" camera, increasing the demand for it...

Over on CloudyNights (and probably here too), there are countless stunning images taken with un-cooled cameras. The latest CMOS sensors are getting more and more efficient.

Yes an un-cooled camera has cons, but ... they can work if you're on a "small to moderate budget" (not everyone can afford top of the range mounts/scopes/cameras).

Its just momentum in the market, all past cameras really did need set point cooling, things are now slowly moving to the point when that is no longer the case but users will take longer to cotton onto that and the majority will continue to quote the old thinking until more images start rolling in from uncooled sensors. The the dialog will slowly shift as it has with CCD vs CMOS, although even in that case you still find some die hards. 

In my opinion though, its a case of "if you build it they will come". If you don't build then eventually someone else will. An unfortunate lesson learnt by some of the older camera makes who were sluggish to move over to CMOS. 

Adam

[Adam J]

29 minutes ago, CCD-Freak said:

The new ASI432MM camera looks interesting with it's larger pixels and low noise. 

That thing has massive potential for galaxy imaging on long focal length scopes, just not seen a dark frame from it yet. 

Adam 

[Hans Joakim]

Luke got very nice results with an uncooled PO Uranus-C and the f/2 RASA: YouTube link. That’s just 3 hours worth of data.

The specs on the new sensors, such as the Uranus-C are really exciting, both as a lunar and planetary camera, but also for DSO work! The Uranus-C is not unlike the ASI183MC Pro in terms of sensor and pixel size, but less than half the price. I live in Norway, and so (as pointed out above in this thread) cooling is not that much of a concern for most of the imaging season. Now, only have to wait two more months for the nights to get a bit darker…! 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Hans Joakim

[Adam J]

2 hours ago, Hans Joakim said:

Luke got very nice results with an uncooled PO Uranus-C and the f/2 RASA: YouTube link. That’s just 3 hours worth of data.

The specs on the new sensors, such as the Uranus-C are really exciting, both as a lunar and planetary camera, but also for DSO work! The Uranus-C is not unlike the ASI183MC Pro in terms of sensor and pixel size, but less than half the price. I live in Norway, and so (as pointed out above in this thread) cooling is not that much of a concern for most of the imaging season. Now, only have to wait two more months for the nights to get a bit darker…! 

And thats exactly what I am talking about, except the result would have been even better with the 533 as the rasa 8 is still oversampling with 2.9um pixels on the 585 unless he was binning that image. But what a fantastic result with an uncooled camera. No one with a RASA should be using a cooled camera you just dont need long enougth exposures to warrent it.

Adam