Renamed - StellaLyra vs Ursa Major Dobsonian

[cajen2]

32 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

So, first light with the Ursa Major.

Out last night with a clear sky. No moon or planets, so just panning around to see what I could see. I only reliably know Ursa Major, Cassiopea, Orion and Gemini and had only a small star chart with me. Orion was too low to get sight of M42 and I had a lot of trouble finding my way around the sky. I was pointed towards the galaxy "belt" and possibly spotted a few fuzzies, but nothing I could readily identify. The main excitement was giving up on that (starting to get a bit cold after eleven), panning around with the 9mm Plossl (I'd been using the 25mm up to now) and just by chance spotting and following what I hope was a double star somewhere around Leo. Don't know how to describe the distances, but through the eyepiece looked something like this...

So a slightly frustrating evening. Hasn't put me off, but some things to address.

Pros

Really like the UM150 - light, easy to move around.

Optics seemed very good to me. Some spikes apparent but not huge.

Had a good evening, with some helpful advice.

A great dark sky site - Kithurst Hill if anyone is in range of the South Downs.

Encouraged me to just get out in the garden more and start finding my way around the night sky.

Cons

I found the straight through finder almost unusable - not an equipment fault, due to age and fitness (or lack of). I'd have been lost if someone hadn't lent me a 9x50 90 degree finder.

The single speed focuser need very precise management. I was continuously over-focusing until I could hit on a sharp image.

Lost in the sky - although this is down to me.

At the moment, I am seriously considering whether (if possible) I should return and update to a StellaLyra 8", which comes with the finder and focuser and at 8" might be easier on my old eyes? I would say that none of the above is the telescope at fault. I think I have reasonable realistic expectations of what I can and can't see. I'm happy enough with the choice of a Dobsonian reflector. If I was twenty or thirty years younger I would be more than happy, but I just feel as if I'm handicapping myself from the start?

Well, I did tell you......😆😛

[cajen2]

You should remember, however, that the 8" is rather heavier and more cumbersome.

Edit: just checked with FLO and the tube weight is only half a kilo more, so you should be fine.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by cajen2
Wrong info

[Paul_Sussex]

29 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Well, I did tell you......😆😛

Everyone's a comedian!  😆

16 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

You should remember, however, that the 8" is rather heavier and more cumbersome.

Edit: just checked with FLO and the tube weight is only half a kilo more, so you should be fine.

 

Yes, the weight's not (such) an issue. It's more the lack of flexibility. (So maybe I should just go for the 16"!)

@JOCI like the idea of a Y mount - do you have a source for that? Already have the offer of a free Telrad...

[JOC]

7 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

@JOCI like the idea of a Y mount - do you have a source for that? Already have the offer of a free Telrad...

I've never played with a telrad so don't know how they mount, but my Y mount came from someone in Poland on ebay who was printing them - I paid about £15 like the ones on this page from someone in Belgium https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=telescope+finder+mount&_sacat=0 , what you do need is a baby red dot finder with a wedge shaped foot on it to fit though.  Like this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384053571749?hash=item596b6070a5:g:~yUAAOSw0nhgWdWO

[Louis D]

Telrads have a separate mounting plate than can either be stuck on with included double sided tape or bolted in place after drilling a couple of holes in your tube.

ScopeStuff sells an adapter base to mount a Telrad into a Synta/Vixen finder base.

There are triple finder mounts on ebay.  I've got a couple of them.  They are very sturdy.  The Telrad and RACI would probably need to use the far opposite shoes to fit.  The middle one might go unused.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

So, first light with the Ursa Major.

Out last night with a clear sky. No moon or planets, so just panning around to see what I could see. I only reliably know Ursa Major, Cassiopea, Orion and Gemini and had only a small star chart with me. Orion was too low to get sight of M42 and I had a lot of trouble finding my way around the sky. I was pointed towards the galaxy "belt" and possibly spotted a few fuzzies, but nothing I could readily identify. The main excitement was giving up on that (starting to get a bit cold after eleven), panning around with the 9mm Plossl (I'd been using the 25mm up to now) and just by chance spotting and following what I hope was a double star somewhere around Leo. Don't know how to describe the distances, but through the eyepiece looked something like this...

So a slightly frustrating evening. Hasn't put me off, but some things to address.

Pros

Really like the UM150 - light, easy to move around.

Optics seemed very good to me. Some spikes apparent but not huge.

Had a good evening, with some helpful advice.

A great dark sky site - Kithurst Hill if anyone is in range of the South Downs.

Encouraged me to just get out in the garden more and start finding my way around the night sky.

Cons

I found the straight through finder almost unusable - not an equipment fault, due to age and fitness (or lack of). I'd have been lost if someone hadn't lent me a 9x50 90 degree finder.

The single speed focuser need very precise management. I was continuously over-focusing until I could hit on a sharp image.

Lost in the sky - although this is down to me.

At the moment, I am seriously considering whether (if possible) I should return and update to a StellaLyra 8", which comes with the finder and focuser and at 8" might be easier on my old eyes? I would say that none of the above is the telescope at fault. I think I have reasonable realistic expectations of what I can and can't see. I'm happy enough with the choice of a Dobsonian reflector. If I was twenty or thirty years younger I would be more than happy, but I just feel as if I'm handicapping myself from the start?

I have a 10 inch with a RACI finder....I can't find anything with it.  The cure was a dual mount.  One side holds the finder and the other side holds a laser.  Align the finder to the scope and the laser to the finder.  Now when I want to look at something the laser comes on, swing it to the object....which is now in my finder and BOOM....it's in the eyepiece.  Doesn't get any easier then that.  As for the various zero mag red dot stuff....I can't stand them but that is a to each his own kinda deal.  One thing about using a laser.  Watch out for aircraft.  Don't know about jolly old England but here in the States....zapping a cockpit with a laser WILL get you a visit from the Federal Aviation Administration.  So be careful where you point that thing.

[Louis D]

29 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

I have a 10 inch with a RACI finder....I can't find anything with it.  The cure was a dual mount.  One side holds the finder and the other side holds a laser.  Align the finder to the scope and the laser to the finder.  Now when I want to look at something the laser comes on, swing it to the object....which is now in my finder and BOOM....it's in the eyepiece.  Doesn't get any easier then that.  As for the various zero mag red dot stuff....I can't stand them but that is a to each his own kinda deal.  One thing about using a laser.  Watch out for aircraft.  Don't know about jolly old England but here in the States....zapping a cockpit with a laser WILL get you a visit from the Federal Aviation Administration.  So be careful where you point that thing.

Yeah, laser pointers/sights are highly frowned upon here in SGL land, so I quit bringing them up quite a while ago.  As someone with a bad neck and back though, I'm right there with you on using them.  I still have my Telrad, QuikFinder, and RDF, but for most usages, the laser gets me there quicker and painlessly.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Yeah, laser pointers/sights are highly frowned upon here in SGL land, so I quit bringing them up quite a while ago.  As someone with a bad neck and back though, I'm right there with you on using them.  I still have my Telrad, QuikFinder, and RDF, but for most usages, the laser gets me there quicker and painlessly.

I am all about sharing what works for me and that just happens to be a laser LOL

[AstroKeith]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Yeah, laser pointers/sights are highly frowned upon here in SGL land, so I quit bringing them up quite a while ago.  As someone with a bad neck and back though, I'm right there with you on using them.  I still have my Telrad, QuikFinder, and RDF, but for most usages, the laser gets me there quicker and painlessly.

5mW lasers aren't explicitly illegal in the UK, but their use is now controlled (restricted) under government regulations. Universities and other business users have responded with codes practice for their use on their premises or by their staff.

So a person can use one, but if anything goes wrong, or the authorities want to take issue, they have no defence.

This is further complicated by any laser 'pointer' >1mW is illegal to sell, but not to import. Crazy.

[bosun21]

If I were you I would change the existing finder with a RACI using the same shoe and rather than a telrad use a Rigel Quickfinder mounted with double sided tape. I have a telrad and RACI on my Maksutov and on my Dobsonian I have a RACI and a Quickfinder. The weight of the telrad and heavy eyepieces threw the balance of but the Quickfinder was fine. I tested the position of the QF with a few magnets and double sided tape as this let me try various positions until I decided on one and made it permanent.. Good luck 👍 

[Mr Spock]

Finder solution on my 12" Dob. RACI + Telrad = perfect!

[rojay]

A straight through finder can also work a bit like a red dot finder - I kneel beside the Dob, with right eye looking through the finder and left eye open too. Then slew the telescope until the finder feels like it's pointing at the star you are looking at, and then it just appears in the finder fov. It's hard to describe, but it just works! You can then centre the star in the finder, and it will be in the fov of a wide field eyepiece.

Of course the tricky part for my old bones is getting up again to look through the eyepiece. You're not allowed to hold on to the scope to help yourself up...

[cajen2]

46 minutes ago, rojay said:

A straight through finder can also work a bit like a red dot finder - I kneel beside the Dob, with right eye looking through the finder and left eye open too. Then slew the telescope until the finder feels like it's pointing at the star you are looking at, and then it just appears in the finder fov. It's hard to describe, but it just works! You can then centre the star in the finder, and it will be in the fov of a wide field eyepiece.

Of course the tricky part for my old bones is getting up again to look through the eyepiece. You're not allowed to hold on to the scope to help yourself up...

Another good option is a Baader Skysurfer RDF. Its two tubes act like a straight-through finder, plus you have the red dot for greater accuracy. It even works as a finder if the battery goes flat! 😉

[Paul_Sussex]

Just renamed this thread - I plan on replacing the 6" Ursa Major with an 8" StellaLyra, but wanted to preserve the previous discussion.

I've put a very quick review of the Ursa Major on FLO. As a beginner, I didn't have much to say, but I do think it would be a good first telescope for someone younger and fitter than me - a good price point, some nice additions like the CNC machined focuser, and pretty much everything you need to get started. I'll be interested to see what others make of it.

[cajen2]

2 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

Just renamed this thread - I plan on replacing the 6" Ursa Major with an 8" StellaLyra, but wanted to preserve the previous discussion.

I've put a very quick review of the Ursa Major on FLO. As a beginner, I didn't have much to say, but I do think it would be a good first telescope for someone younger and fitter than me - a good price point, some nice additions like the CNC machined focuser, and pretty much everything you need to get started. I'll be interested to see what others make of it.

I really think you won't regret it, Paul. To upgrade just the focuser to the two-speed and the finder to a RACI would cost far more than the price difference, plus you'll appreciate the adjustable balance and the smooth alt and azimuth axes. And you'll be getting another 2" of aperture! 👍😉

Edited April 27, 2022 by cajen2

[Stu]

On 26/04/2022 at 14:49, rojay said:

A straight through finder can also work a bit like a red dot finder - I kneel beside the Dob, with right eye looking through the finder and left eye open too. Then slew the telescope until the finder feels like it's pointing at the star you are looking at, and then it just appears in the finder fov. It's hard to describe, but it just works! You can then centre the star in the finder, and it will be in the fov of a wide field eyepiece.

Of course the tricky part for my old bones is getting up again to look through the eyepiece. You're not allowed to hold on to the scope to help yourself up...

I posted this a while back, to almost universal dismay amongst the SGL RACI-azzi 😉

I think that if you only have a finder, the straight through is actually easier for the reasons you mention; you are looking at, and pointing at the target, whereas with a RACI you are looking down into in and it is harder to aim.

However, a RACI combined with a TelRad, Rigel or even an RDF is a great combination, getting you in the right ball park with the TelRad (or Rigel etc) to pick up the target in the RACI.

[cajen2]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

I posted this a while back, to almost universal dismay amongst the SGL RACI-azzi 😉

I think that if you only have a finder, the straight through is actually easier for the reasons you mention; you are looking at, and pointing at the target, whereas with a RACI you are looking down into in and it is harder to aim.

However, a RACI combined with a TelRad, Rigel or even an RDF is a great combination, getting you in the right ball park with the TelRad (or Rigel etc) to pick up the target in the RACI.

This. I have a Baader Skysurfer RDF and a RACI as I'm so bad at finding things - I need all the help I can get!

[Guest]

On this side of the pond, if you buy it from Orion, that scopes goes by the name Skyline.  I tossed a picture of it on here for you, including my preferred way of aiming it.  A word of advice.  I would give real consideration to changing the secondary screws to thumb screws.  Bobs Knobs has them here in the States, but I am sure you could source them over there.  

[rojay]

Glad to hear that there are other 'two eye straight through' fans out there! Does that make us TESTy rather than RACI observers?

[Paul_Sussex]

Can't remember if I mentioned before, but I found the straight through finder impossible to use (old age and a bad back) but a borrowed RACI solved the problem and I found it quite easy to use. Maybe as a beginner I didn't have any ingrained expectations to overcome?

[Mr Spock]

23 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

Can't remember if I mentioned before, but I found the straight through finder impossible to use (old age and a bad back) but a borrowed RACI solved the problem and I found it quite easy to use. Maybe as a beginner I didn't have any ingrained expectations to overcome?

+1 for the bad back - RACI solution 👍

[Paul_Sussex]

Apologies, all. After a serious sit down and think with the Finance Director, I decided the Dob was not for me. Far too stiff and aching after a night out and I doubt this would be improved with an 8". 😟 After several emails exchanged with Chris (with his FLO hat on) I've decided to go back to the idea of a 127 Mak - this time on a SynScan mount. So, order placed with FLO and looking for delivery some time next week. I'll be on leave, so possibly an unboxing and first light thread - hopefully more successful.

Many thanks for all the advice...

[Ratlet]

2 hours ago, Paul_Sussex said:

Apologies, all. After a serious sit down and think with the Finance Director, I decided the Dob was not for me. Far too stiff and aching after a night out and I doubt this would be improved with an 8". 😟 After several emails exchanged with Chris (with his FLO hat on) I've decided to go back to the idea of a 127 Mak - this time on a SynScan mount. So, order placed with FLO and looking for delivery some time next week. I'll be on leave, so possibly an unboxing and first light thread - hopefully more successful.

Many thanks for all the advice...

At least you've not given up on it.  Look forward to reading how you get on with the 127 Mak.  I hear that Jupiter and Saturn will be nice in the summer.

[Paul_Sussex]

Not giving up...hopefully, the Mak will be a bit easier on the old bones! Due for delivery Tuesday, but the weather's looking a bit pants so may be a delay in unboxing and first light report. Hmmmm...first quarter moon next week!

[wulfrun]

37 minutes ago, Paul_Sussex said:

 Hmmmm...first quarter moon next week!

That's not how it works. Full moon if that wasn't your intended target, plain-old full-cloud if it was!