Skymax 127 Vs Evostar 80ed for visual

[thesaintishere]

Greetings!

I'm thinking about my first scope and I've kind of narrowed it down to either the Skymax 127 or Evostar 80ed on an AZ-GTI. I'm only interested in visual observing at present, so wondering which would be the option?

A friend is selling their Evostar 80ed so cost will be about the same regardless of which I plump for.

Thoughts?

Thank you.

[Stu]

Any thoughts on what sort of targets which would interest you? If lunar and planetary then the Mak would certainly be better, but they have quite a narrow field of view so the refractor would be better for larger open clusters, MilkyWay sweeps etc.

Refractors do have an aesthetic quality to the stars that some of us love and potentially prefer over the resolution benefits of a larger scope, so again alot depends on preferences you may have.

[Louis D]

The refractor will cool down considerably quicker than the Mak.  If you can get the refractor for the cost of a new Mak, I'd go that route.  The 80ED is roughly double the price of the 127 Mak here in the states.

[Gfamily]

In my experience, high magnifications for the Moon and Planets are often limited by atmospheric effects, so you may find that the longer inherent focal length doesn't give a lot more usable power as such. 

I've recently bought a 72mm refractor and it's almost totally taken over my viewing, with the 127 Mak often staying in the bag all evening.  Seeing open clusters against the open sky background puts them in context in a way that the much smaller field of view of the Mak just can't match.  

 

[bomberbaz]

I would get the ED80 if I had the same choice. 

One thing to note, if you get the az gti the extension pillar is a must have. 👍

[Stu1smartcookie]

Hi , One thing you havent considered is the weight issue . An ED80 is quite a heavy scope ... i had one and although it worked , a 2" diagonal and a 2" EP made it a bit clumsy on the AZ-Gti mount ... in fact i sold the scope and the buyer had the same issues as me . The ED 80 is a fine scope and deserves its place in anyones collection but the AZ-GTi takes 5kgs max... there is a reason they are supplied with scopes that weigh around 3-3.5 kgs 

[rob_r]

I have both the Mak127 and a Evostar 72ED. Both perform fine on the AZ-GTI for observing, might be taxing the mount with a heavy DSLR though. I think it will depend on your targets, the Mak will favour close up lunar and planetary. The Evostar will favour DSO objects. The 127 with it's long focal length will struggle to fit some of the larger DSOs with the FOV, such as M45 and M31. The Mak coupled with a dedicated astrocam will excel at planetary and close up lunar shots. I only got the 72ED recently for astrophotography (and as a grab and go system with the AZ-GTI) rather than for observing but finding so far that the Mak may will be staying in the my carry bag until the Summer.

[SuburbanMak]

Like others here I would say it depends on the targets you favour. 

I have the Mak 127 and not an ED80 but the ST80.  The Mak is a superb lunar/planetary, globular cluster and double star instrument and I have so far tracked down 80/110 Messiers with it, so it is no slouch in the DSO department.   The extra aperture the Mak delivers over the ED80 will count on DSOs especially if you can grab-and-go to a really dark sky location. I've seen spiral form in M51, dust lane in M82, and form in some of the Virgo/Coma galaxies with the Mak on the best nights.   Its a sharp contrasty view and the difference in star patterns to a refractor is not that huge, I would say that diffraction rings are slightly messier but its quite marginal.  Its robust, doesn't need collimating and with the 127 I've not found UK cool down time to be much of an issue - everything steady after 15-20 minutes outside, which is often how long it takes me to get organised anyway. 

I love my ST80 for widefield clusters - the Mak will just fit the whole of the main parts of the Double Cluster or the central section of the Pleiades for example but features like the Hyades, Alpha Persei, Andromeda Galaxy etc are better in the ST80.  At some point I'd love to upgrade to either an ED72 or ED80.   

The two 'scopes you are choosing between are complimentary - personally if I had to pick just one it would be the Mak, but equally if you are being offered a great deal on the ED80 maybe go for that one first and pick up a second-hand Mak later. As I said they are not fragile so should be able to pick up a good one used when funds allow. 

PS - The AZGTi is great! 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by SuburbanMak

[thesaintishere]

Very much belated, but thank you for all your above advice. After a month or two of toing and froing I decided to opt for the 80ED on an AZ5 manual mount. It took me a couple of months to pick up all the bits second hand (aside from a few eyepieces) but I got there eventually! Here's what I bought for circa £750:

- Skywatcher 80ED pro kit
- AZ5 Mount
- Skywatcher Steel 3/8" tripod
- AZ5 extension pillar
- BST Starguiders 5mm, 8mm & 15mm
- Baader Classic Ortho 6mm & 10mm. 

Thanks to the clouds (!!!) I've only had it out a couple of times, but I've had some amazing views of the moon and I think I saw M57 (ring nebula). In a word, I'm hooked! Looking to add a 4mm planetary eyepiece (Vixen SLV or OVL Nirvana) and a 18mm Classic Ortho too as I love the view through the 6mm & 10mm classic orthos. 

Thanks again!

[Gonariu]

A good Barlow 2X apochromat would also fit.

[thesaintishere]

21 hours ago, Gonariu said:

A good Barlow 2X apochromat would also fit.

Any recommendations? Thanks!

[Stu]

Not sure I would do both the 4mm and a Barlow, probably wouldn’t be needed. The 4mm will give you x150 which is a decent max for the scope. You might get more on a good night but diminishing returns.

Might be worth adding a 24mm 68 degree at some point for max field of view with a 1.25”. Would give you 2.72 degrees, great for large objects like the North America Nebula and M31. Not cheap, so look out for a used Maxvision, Explore Scientific are more expensive but basically the same optics I believe.

[thesaintishere]

9 minutes ago, Stu said:

Not sure I would do both the 4mm and a Barlow, probably wouldn’t be needed. The 4mm will give you x150 which is a decent max for the scope. You might get more on a good night but diminishing returns.

Might be worth adding a 24mm 68 degree at some point for max field of view with a 1.25”. Would give you 2.72 degrees, great for large objects like the North America Nebula and M31. Not cheap, so look out for a used Maxvision, Explore Scientific are more expensive but basically the same optics I believe.

Thanks for the advice! Any suggestions re 4mm eyepiece? Both the OVL Nirvana 4mm and the Vixen SLV 4mm are within budget, but I could simply wait a while longer if a more expensive eyepiece is going to be much better than either of those. Cheers! 

[Stu1smartcookie]

On 10/07/2022 at 11:57, thesaintishere said:

Very much belated, but thank you for all your above advice. After a month or two of toing and froing I decided to opt for the 80ED on an AZ5 manual mount. It took me a couple of months to pick up all the bits second hand (aside from a few eyepieces) but I got there eventually! Here's what I bought for circa £750:

- Skywatcher 80ED pro kit
- AZ5 Mount
- Skywatcher Steel 3/8" tripod
- AZ5 extension pillar
- BST Starguiders 5mm, 8mm & 15mm
- Baader Classic Ortho 6mm & 10mm. 

Thanks to the clouds (!!!) I've only had it out a couple of times, but I've had some amazing views of the moon and I think I saw M57 (ring nebula). In a word, I'm hooked! Looking to add a 4mm planetary eyepiece (Vixen SLV or OVL Nirvana) and a 18mm Classic Ortho too as I love the view through the 6mm & 10mm classic orthos. 

Thanks again!

 Good choice , especially the steel tripod as that enables stability. 

[Gonariu]

1 hour ago, thesaintishere said:

Grazie per il consiglio! Qualche consiglio sull'oculare da 4 mm? Sia l'OVL Nirvana 4mm che il Vixen SLV 4mm rientrano nel budget, ma potrei semplicemente aspettare un po' di più se un oculare più costoso sarà molto meglio di uno di quelli. Saluti! 

Years ago I bought the 4 mm LV Lanthanum Vixen, certainly nowadays it is vintage but its duty does it; in used it is still found. I don't know about apochromatic barlows, it seems to me that Televue did good ones but I think that any brand that has a name has decent ones.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Gonariu

[Gonariu]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Gonariu

[Gonariu]

Excuse me, I made some mistakes, the quote came to me in Italian and not in English and I don't know how to remedy it. Can the staff please provide? Thank you in advance.

[cajen2]

1 hour ago, thesaintishere said:

Thanks for the advice! Any suggestions re 4mm eyepiece? Both the OVL Nirvana 4mm and the Vixen SLV 4mm are within budget, but I could simply wait a while longer if a more expensive eyepiece is going to be much better than either of those. Cheers! 

Problem with both of those: the Nirvana has rather tight eye relief but a good FOV and the Vixen has great ER but only a 45° FOV.

Edited July 11, 2022 by cajen2

[Ricochet]

1 hour ago, thesaintishere said:

Thanks for the advice! Any suggestions re 4mm eyepiece? Both the OVL Nirvana 4mm and the Vixen SLV 4mm are within budget, but I could simply wait a while longer if a more expensive eyepiece is going to be much better than either of those. Cheers! 

I recently bought a 72ED and when I take it out for lunar the 4 and 6mm SLVs are the eyepieces I've found myself taking out. They are comfortable, well corrected and lightweight with good transmission, but they only have a 50° field (45° actually for the shorter SLVs). The Nirvana et al have a much wider 82° field which you may prefer. The 4mm Nirvana is reportedly very sharp (at least in the centre) but I would expect to not have quite as good transmission as the SLV with a higher chance of reflections from bright objects. Either would be a good choice, it just depends whether you want to go with a slightly better optical quality or a wider field of view.