Deep Sky Dad Rotator

[teoria_del_big_bang]

I have been wanting to fit a rotator for sometime now to be able to frame images better and easier.
My setup at the time is an Esprit 100ED, QHY268M and QHYCFW3 FW.
So with this I have 55.7 mm BF to fit all these into. The camera, FW and 5mm bolt-on to 48 mm spacer that comes with the camera (or FW can't remember which) uses 35 mm leaving 20.7 mm.

I found buying one a bit of a nightmare with not that much advice out there how to adapt rotators with differing threads and bore diameters to your specific set up. Then to add to the issues if using mono with FW there is very little room within the BF to fit a rotator let alone then having to add any adapters due to differing threads.

First I bought a Pegasus Falcon
My first attempt was to use the Pegasus Falcon rotator, with a width of only 18 mm it looked like it would fit, however, the 54mm threads meant I needed to use the adapters to 48mm available. I bought one from RVO together with a 54mm to 48mm male to male and male to female adapters. According to the specification the male to female should take no spacing up and the male to male should add 1mm so this should only take up 19mm of the 20.7 mm available and with some thin spacers around the female to female adapter to allow some gap between FW and rotator should work just fine.
pegasus-falcon-rotator
BUT, on receiving the rotator it actually measured 18.5 mm without adapter and with adapter measured 22.1 mm, an incredible 3.1 mm more then the published dimensions. This was a blow because the rotator seemed really well made, I like the Pegasus kit, but I knew I could get it to fit but would need me to get some sort of bespoke adapter made, or the very least to machine the current 5 mm spacer that came with camera down to 3.4 mm.
Whilst not too difficult I decided to return the rotator and and order the Deep Sky Dad rotator which already had 48 mm female threads and  a slightly thinner thickness of 17.5 mm and so should fit easily.

Deep Sky Dad Rotator (FR1)
This did indeed fit without issues.
The optional 48mm female to male adapters available from DSD add nothing to the BF.
I also ordered the optional hand set to be able to rotate when stood at the mount.

DSD Rotator (FR1)
 

 

With some thin additional spacers I was able to get the exact BF required.
It works effortlessly with both EKOS and NINA (I am sure other software too but these are the ones I have used).

Although I have not done any scientific tests, other than check my images before fitting and after, and giving it a bit of a shake by hand to see if I can feel anything, I can see no evidence of added tilt due to the bearing in the rotator, the video below shows some fairly extreme tests done by DSD to prove this.

Software wise it just seems to work a treat, in both NINA and EKOS when plate solving to an existing image it rotates the camera to get the framing pretty much bang on (I guess as close as I set the tolerance).
I really cannot seem to see any shake (for want of a better word) either up-down, left to right, or even in an angular direction.
Although at first in the angular direction there was a bit of movement, which did not seem to affect images unless I moved it by hand, but then I found there is an adjusting screw that moves a jockey pulley to tension the timing belt, and with a small adjustment any backlash in a rotational direction was eliminated.

The only minor issue I had to begin with was actually getting the plate solving to work properly in EKOS. It appeared to work and as well as moving the mount to achieve the correct framing it also moved the rotator but it was not exact framing, in fact it was pretty random what angle it ended up at. EKOS seemed to try but gave up after one rotation and the angle sometimes was near on some targets but tens of degrees out on others. All I had to do was check the box for reverse direction and it worked a treat. 
Now I have changed to using NINA I have not had a proper session to test everything out with the plate solving but I assume I will have to do the same in NINA.

So all in all I am absolutely over the moon with this purchase and love it. Makes framing so simple and "bob-on" every single time.

At the time of writing (Feb 2022) the price was 430 Euros, 20 Euros for the optional hand set and 15 euros for the M48 female to male adapter and 24 Euros DHL delivery.
But that is without VAT so there is about 23% to add to this for VAT and other costs when it is imported to UK.

 

Some images of it on my set-up

 

 

Steve

Edited February 5, 2022 by teoria_del_big_bang

[assouptro]

Hi Steve 

did you get this working with Nina? 
 

cheers 

Bryan 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

9 hours ago, assouptro said:

did you get this working with Nina? 

Hi, yes works like a dream. 

[assouptro]

6 hours ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Hi, yes works like a dream. 

Thanks for answering!! 
I have the same rotator, and I use Nina

I initially had some issues getting it to plate solve and rotate without searching but I think I have that dialled now (not enough time under stars to be confident!) 

One thing I have a problem with is connecting the rotator to phd2 as well as Nina 

I need phd2 to know the rotation as I have an oag in the mix and it ideally has to go behind the rotator so it doesn’t cast a different shadow on the chip of my imaging camera 

Have you any advice? 
 

many thanks again for replying 

Bryan 😊

[teoria_del_big_bang]

6 hours ago, assouptro said:

Thanks for answering!! 
I have the same rotator, and I use Nina

I initially had some issues getting it to plate solve and rotate without searching but I think I have that dialled now (not enough time under stars to be confident!) 

One thing I have a problem with is connecting the rotator to phd2 as well as Nina 

I need phd2 to know the rotation as I have an oag in the mix and it ideally has to go behind the rotator so it doesn’t cast a different shadow on the chip of my imaging camera 

Have you any advice? 
 

many thanks again for replying 

Bryan 😊

Sorry but not really any idea how to connect to PHD2. I didn't even know you could do this.

I know you say it has to do this because of the OAG but it would still work shouldn't it so long as  PHD2 recalibrates every time you have moved the rotator , which shouldn't be too much of an issue because that is only really every time you change targets and even if you manage 3 or 4 targets in a night still not too much lost time.

Steve 

[assouptro]

thanks for the reply! 

The problem lies in calibrating when not pointing at the equator and meridian etc 

however... ignoring the guiding issue, can you remember how you set the rotator up with nina? 

Did you somehow synchronize the rotation of the rotator to the actual physical position and do you limit the rotation to 90, 180 or 360 degrees? do you check reverse? 

I am getting frustrated with the rotator deciding to nearly travel 360 degrees when it only needs to travel 10 

I'm not sure if I have a faulty unit or I just don't know what I am doing??

I appreciate your help, I'm a bit lost and frustrated, I dont get enough clear sky to waste on trial and error at the moment!

Thanks again 

Bryan 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

 

Just powere my scope up as not had it out for ages just to check but mine does go the shortest direction and will not keep going same direction that would twist the cables out of their connectors.

In NINA.

 

And settings in FR1

[teoria_del_big_bang]

If you are still having issues then email Pavle at DSD, he is very good and will sort you out.

pavle.gartner@gmail.com

Only other thought is if you had bought 2nd hand was the Firmware out of date ?

Mine is quite old but this is my Firmware version. Like I say email Pavle he sorted me out on a few issues with both rotator and flat panel.

Steve

[assouptro]

1 hour ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

If you are still having issues then email Pavle at DSD, he is very good and will sort you out.

pavle.gartner@gmail.com

Only other thought is if you had bought 2nd hand was the Firmware out of date ?

Mine is quite old but this is my Firmware version. Like I say email Pavle he sorted me out on a few issues with both rotator and flat panel.

Steve

Superb advice and information Steve! 

I did buy it new from 365 astronomy and had to load the initial driver from the dsd website following the instructions 

I will check all the settings when I get home and reach out to Pavle should I still struggle! 
 

thanks a million for your time 😊

Bryan 

[assouptro]

Hi Steve

Finally got it nailed! (I think🤔)

wow, what a learning curve! 
 it’s not that complicated but there are so many variables and very little in the way of specific instructions 

It turns out I need to have reverse ticked in the deep sky dad driver but don’t select this in Nina? 
I’m not sure if this changes with type of ota used as you may have a reverse image or an upside down image or both? But that was the configuration that worked for me! 

I also tried to synchronise the mechanical and sky position by plate solving in Nina then matching the sky rotation to the mechanical rotation in the dsd software. I’m not sure this was necessary but made sense to me 

I am working on 180° mechanical range 

and set the starting point is 90°

The other thing I have managed to do is get the rotator to talk to Nina and PhD2

This was achieved by downloading an ascom server called Optec 

I didn’t even know this tool existed until I reached out to the community on the PhD2 Google form 

Optec is a Great piece of software that does what it says! 
 

I just want to thank you for you help in this, I’m not sure I could have solved this without help 

 

Bryan 😊

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Hi Bryan,

Glad I could be of some assistance but looks like you sorted much of it yourself.

Whatever, I am just so glad you have got it all working and hopefully like myself will come to think it is one of the best things I did to upgrade my rig, so easy when used with NINA to get perfect alignment of images session after session on same target .

Steve

[Stuart1971]

2 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Hi Bryan,

Glad I could be of some assistance but looks like you sorted much of it yourself.

Whatever, I am just so glad you have got it all working and hopefully like myself will come to think it is one of the best things I did to upgrade my rig, so easy when used with NINA to get perfect alignment of images session after session on same target .

Steve

I had the Pegasus version, and had it fitted between the scope and the flattener on the esprit 100, as did not have room the other side of the flattener, due to have a tilt adjuster fitted there, Pegasus supply the correct adopters to fit in this space, but they were an extra £70, it also meant the focuser did not need to come out as far, as this took up some of the backspace which was a bonus too…but I just found I never used it so took it out and sold it…maybe I will regret at some point…

I have the DSD motorised flats panel and that is superb…👍🏻

[Stuart1971]

No problems with any sag or tilt being introduced with the DSD version…???

[teoria_del_big_bang]

I never saw any evidence of it.

[assouptro]

I haven’t had enough experience yet but so far, so good 😊

[Stuart1971]

Can I ask too, is it possible to set the zero position on this rotator, by this I mean if I wanted the rotator to be in a certain orientation when at zero, this could be set…?

[teoria_del_big_bang]

On 25/02/2024 at 22:06, Stuart1971 said:

Can I ask too, is it possible to set the zero position on this rotator, by this I mean if I wanted the rotator to be in a certain orientation when at zero, this could be set…?

tbh not sure. For sure you can set a zero but not sure if NINA would just overwrite that after a successful plate solve, again the guy to ask is Pavle at DSD, he is very good and will sort you out.

pavle.gartner@gmail.com

[assouptro]

On 25/02/2024 at 22:06, Stuart1971 said:

Can I ask too, is it possible to set the zero position on this rotator, by this I mean if I wanted the rotator to be in a certain orientation when at zero, this could be set…?

I think so 

it’s done by the main dsd software 

I could tell it where it is and synchronise the current position to whatever figure I wanted so yeah. 
The only thing I found is setting the 0 position I wanted to 90° worked better for me as I was only allowing 180° travel and that way it would rotate either side of 90° without doing a 360

if that makes sense 

I’m still learning though 😊