What would constitute the ideal dark site?

[Ande]

Apart from the obvious dark sky, what would you consider the ideal attributes for a dark site?  For example, would higher ground (less atmosphere to look through but inherently windier) trump a lower, more protected site. How about the ground?  Would concrete/asphalt (possibly giving out stored heat to disturb the air) be better than grass that might be sodden, and prone to belching out a lot more moisture? 
 

What other factors would be worth consideration?  My garden affords poor easterly views, appalling northerly, moderate southerly, and non-existent westerly.  And light pollution is also a major hazard. Consequently, I’m in need of a dark(er) site, so would like to try and source a decent place.  I’m just thinking that if I can find the optimum set of variables, then I can narrow things down accordingly. 

[bf79]

Somewhere near my house would be nice 😂

In all seriousness though, Ive recently moved into a new housing estate and everybody around me has bought these annoying soffit lights all round their houses. That together with the lamp post right outside my front garden means viewing anything is a nightmare. My nearest proper dark sky park is Galloway Forrest area which is about an hour and a half away, (and Ive still not been yet). 

Light pollution is a serious factor to consider when looking for somewhere, and travel time is also a big consideration, particularly if you’re taking and trying to set up a large or heavy rig. 
I dont know what difference concrete / asphalt would make re giving off heat, but Id think that would have to be balanced with the need for hard ground to give proper stability. 
 

Disclaimer though, Im still new to all this so my points may well be completely irrelevant in the real world 🤣

[Captain Scarlet]

It’ll be unlikely there won’t be ANY light-domes from towns nearby, so try to choose a spot with a hill of some sort or wooded area between the site and the light-dome. I live in a very dark place, and luckily Lough Hyne hill sits just between me and bright Skibbereen.

Magnus

Edited January 18, 2022 by Captain Scarlet

[Shimrod]

14 hours ago, Ande said:

Apart from the obvious dark sky, what would you consider the ideal attributes for a dark site?  For example, would higher ground (less atmosphere to look through but inherently windier) trump a lower, more protected site. How about the ground?  Would concrete/asphalt (possibly giving out stored heat to disturb the air) be better than grass that might be sodden, and prone to belching out a lot more moisture? 
 

What other factors would be worth consideration?  My garden affords poor easterly views, appalling northerly, moderate southerly, and non-existent westerly.  And light pollution is also a major hazard. Consequently, I’m in need of a dark(er) site, so would like to try and source a decent place.  I’m just thinking that if I can find the optimum set of variables, then I can narrow things down accordingly. 

I prefer to set up over grass rather than concrete so if I drop a piece of equipment it will be less of a heart-stopping moment.

I wouldn't think in the UK you would be able to find an easily accessible site at sufficient altitude that the atmosphere would make much of a difference so I would look for something sheltered and a bit away from the road. Good horizons (so not picking a carpark in the middle of a forest) although you could mitigate that if you had several different sites depending on what direction you want to observe.

I am also of that age now where my ideal site would also include toilets and an astro-friendly cafe so I can get a cuppa!

[ONIKKINEN]

My ideal darksite would be a clearing in the middle of a forest with maybe a dirt road as the surface for less thermals and still giving plenty of support for tripods (as opposed to just the forest floor which is soggy and tripods sink into this). The trees provide shelter from wind, but also could cause worse seeing if there is turbulence straight above. But seeing is not that great usually anyway so whatever, ill just deal with it. It would also be at least 70km away from where i live (a major LP source) and be accessible by car in less than 30min. Now the last part makes this pure fantasy, but that would be ideal for me.

I can think of many B4-5 or even B3 areas with the above criteria, maybe even some B2 ones. But all are at least 90min away so not something i could use on weeknights. On weekends maybe if the forecast is solid and there is little risk of a wasted trip, but usually such weather only happens when a proper high pressure zone is straight overhead, and that is unfortunately very rare outside of spring and summer here.

[Swoop1]

Apart from the obvious need for dark skies, I would like well drained grassland for kit and joint protection, slightly raised surrounding ground as a shield against distant light pollution (setting up in the bottom of a 3 meter deep, 2 meter diameter depression?), easily accessible parking and a nearby hostelry for a warm up and a hot cuppa (or toddy) whilst the kit completes an imaging run.

 

[scarp15]

There is perhaps no one good all-rounded dark site, you probably require a 'portfolio' of several good dark site options. This can be determined by several factors. 

A location on open higher ground benefits from a breezy aspect and may be above any formations of lower lying valley mist. This also gains potential good 360 horizon aspects. However, if the breeze becomes a gust that ain't good (unless you can protect the scope from strong gusts). At least one aspect (often i.e. S/E) may encounter a light dome with no screening such as from trees. In winter conditions narrow back roads are untreated, much ascending upwards and down may test your vehicle, tyres, drivers ability to remain calm and focused (nearly ended up in a ditch on an icy downwards slope a couple of years back). 

As mentioned by others, a location with some tree cover can be great, acting as a barrier to any distant light pollution screened from view. Just need to ensure that the trees are a reasonable space apart for lower elevation observing. However if this forms part of a wider forestry area, it may by its natural tendency attract misty conditions. This tends to happens sometimes if located at low levels such as in Kielder, when a few miles out of the forest boundary it could be completely clear.

The ground, as long as it is well drained does not really matter and I always set up a dobsonian for example, onto a rubber ground mat (from a former car boot). This helps to stabilize the scope, prevent moisture creeping up and may capture anything that might drop. At my relatively new favourite location, I also keep under a car seat a small hand brush, just to sweep debris any small stones away from my intended spot, prior to placing down the mat.

Visit potential locations in the day time, get a sense for what they might be like in the night time. This is of course for unwelcome human visitors. It can be trial and error, but for peace of mind, where I head to, I know reassuringly that no one will stop by. Therefore rule out country parks as a first priority, been there, can be great then on other occasions, well you can probably imagine the likely scenarios. Sometimes an ideal location can be found by chance.

A Unihedron Sky Quality Meter (supplied by FLO) is a vital tool for anyone who pursues like me, venturing to dark sky locations in their region. Taking a succession of readings over a session period and perhaps comparing with previous visits and potentially other locations is integral information to a deep sky session.

However wherever you go, it is an adventure and can be very rewarding, in which you become sensitive to the environment and its wildlife. Two final tips; expect the unexpected and never forget the coffee. 

[jjohnson3803]

1. Convenience - a dark site does no good if you can't / won't use it regularly.  My closest is only a 45-minute drive and even that can be difficult.
2. Safety / security - Risking life and limb (or kit) tends to make observing less than enjoyable.  Even just the perception of danger - real or imagined - can detract from a session.

Edited January 20, 2022 by jjohnson3803

[Ande]

Thanks to all respondents, and apologies for being absent from my own thread.  Life went a little mad for a while…..

I noticed that well drained grass seemed to be a recurring theme, so I shall definitely add that to my checklist.  I actually have a site in mind that enjoys both elevation, and shelter from the wind. It is a disused, semi-circled quarry which would afford great views, particularly E,S,W with plenty enough of northerly view to get a decent PA. I just need to have a drive up there at night and make sure that it doesn’t become a [removed word] spot or similar once darkness descends.  I can do without extra “moons” being on show 😂. 

[Alien 13]

An ideal site for me would be all concrete or granite, have red LEDS embedded in the floor, have power points, have good WIFI, have security with a gated entrance, have toilets, have a burger van or similar, have access to a warm room 😀

Alan

[Iem1]

I am quite lucky in that I have a very dark sky about 25 minutes drive from me. Being that close, I don't see the need to settle for the light pollution

dark, quiet, open views. Not much to complain about really!

 

[CCD-Freak]

After a three year search my buddy Robert and I found a great dark site with SQM 21.99 Sky.  I call it Star Ranch Obs or SRO for short.  Western Texas is fairly dry but windy at times which I like because I HATE DEW!!  The site has great horizons, good road access and we have installed power and water so we can be comfortable in our Caravans.  The wireless phone service is good and there is enough bandwidth for setting up an Internet hot spot.  The county is just over 900 Square miles with a population of 1,640 and about a 1,000 of them live in the town of Paducah which is a little over 10 miles to the North East.   Our closest neighbors are about 1.5 miles away.   The downside is the site is 200 miles from home (about 4 hours drive time) but when I go I typically stay for as much as a week if the weather is agreeable.    Robert recently finished his cabin and observatory and I have built temporary shelters and will be building a "barndominium" fairly soon.  

"But wait....there's more"  ...... a research weather station of the West Texas Mesonet is on our property and we can access it for local weather data. 

It was a long search but I am pleased to finally have "my own dark corner of the universe" 

These places are out there but sometimes it takes some real effort to find them.

Edited January 24, 2022 by CCD-Freak

[Chaz2b]

Hi John,

Any chance we could borrow a bit of your dark sky land? Say about 10,000 square miles for about six days a week, if you could just park it somewhere between Cornwall and Ireland that would be great.

chaz

Edited January 24, 2022 by Chaz2b

[CCD-Freak]

3 hours ago, Chaz2b said:

Hi John,

Any chance we could borrow a bit of your dark sky land? Say about 10,000 square miles for about six days a week, if you could just park it somewhere between Cornwall and Ireland that would be great.

chaz

Sure.......But I don't think it will fit in the wheelbarrow.  8^P

Edited January 24, 2022 by CCD-Freak

[CCD-Freak]

I just checked with FedEx and UPS and you don't even want to think about the shipping costs !!!!!  (^8