How to power my gear at a remote location

[smr]

Hi,

This year, for the first time, I'd really like to try some dark sky imaging, to drive off to a remote location under Bortle 2/3 skies and do some imaging. The thing is I have no idea how I can power my gear so I'm after some advice.

The equipment I have and how I power it at the moment - 

ZWO 2600MC Pro
HEQ5 Pro 
ZWO EAF 
Laptop (Stellarium, APT, PHD2 for image acquisition)

To power all 4 of these in my garden, I have an RCD unit plugged into a socket in my house, which I run an extension lead from into a dri-box on a table near the mount, in the dri-box I have a 4 way socket extension to which I plug in all of the devices, so they're all mains powered.

How can I power all of the equipment with no mains supply, what would you recommend as a power bank?

I've been looking at this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jackery-Portable-Explorer-Generator-Outdoors/dp/B08RNPYLQW/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?adgrpid=63487147130&gclid=Cj0KCQiAw9qOBhC-ARIsAG-rdn6dsGz4T8uwTI70LNxSGrUNEnldHHcfLGMkQ3ex7wii36vTYkNwbDAaApwPEALw_wcB&hvadid=338642543415&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1006867&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=13930289927739403768&hvtargid=kwd-476674996960&hydadcr=5113_1827864&keywords=jackery+portable+power+station&qid=1641512338&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExME0xVzJEUTZOSTdVJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzI5MTcxMlBGSktTVzNNODBGSCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTUzMTExMkxTTzZHM0g5NUdFMSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Would I be able to plug my RCD unit into this, (if needed?) and run everything from the 4 way socket extension from the plug socket on the Jackery, would it be enough to power everything properly?

Thanks for any help!

Edited January 6, 2022 by smr

[Capt Slog]

I don't know what you're powering (yes, you put a list, but I don't know what they are), but what does each one 'draw' in terms of power, and hence, what will be the total load?

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

The answer will depend on the total load.  The laptop might be the most tricky item to power in the field, but a modern laptop with SSD will image for several hours without an external power supply. Older models with hard drive consume a lot more power.

[Len1257]

I use a GEM45,  with ASI2600 at -10C, 2A worth of dew control, EAF, ASI 120 guide cam and an Intel NUC via a converter all off an UltraMax 36Ah 12V (nominal) Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Battery in a homemade powerbox with suitable outlets/fuses etc. Lasts all night, probably most of the second night too. The NUC with SSD's is the highest consumer in my setup (2A to 4A peaks).

Note: my Laptop is inside with me in the comfy warm of my conservatory. A 90W laptop at 19V will be taking peak 4.7A. multiply that by your hours and that would need to go on top too or substitute for my NUC. Remember the nights are cold and batteries don't hold up so well when the temperature drops so you might want some safety factor built in.

You need to measure if you can your rigs current drain for a definitive answer.

[Shimrod]

14 minutes ago, Len1257 said:

 

Note: my Laptop is inside with me in the comfy warm of my conservatory. A 90W laptop at 19V will be taking peak 4.7A. multiply that by your hours and that would need to go on top too or substitute for my NUC. Remember the nights are cold and batteries don't hold up so well when the temperature drops so you might want some safety factor built in.

My laptop (low power HP Spectre X2) battery life drops from 9 hours to about 3 hours or less as the weather gets colder so definitely worth bearing in mind. My laptop charges via USB-C so I use a cheap £30 powerbank to extend the battery life of the laptop - everything else is powered by a Celestron Powertank Pro, which provides enough power for 3-4 hours (my 'night') with plenty left in reserve.

[Clarkey]

I have a 12v supply for my astro gear and a separate 19V laptop powerbank for the laptop. The laptop is the weak link as even with the extra battery power it will only last about 8 hours which is just about OK for an imaging session.

One thing to consider is if you need to star adding any dew heaters as these are relatively power hungry.

[FinleyChambers]

I’m sure skywatcher do the power packs. Not sure if it’ll work for everything you have there though.

[Quetzalcoatl72]

10 hours ago, Clarkey said:

I have a 12v supply for my astro gear and a separate 19V laptop powerbank for the laptop. The laptop is the weak link as even with the extra battery power it will only last about 8 hours which is just about OK for an imaging session.

One thing to consider is if you need to star adding any dew heaters as these are relatively power hungry.

only 8 hours? you're lucky enough to get 2 in the uk

[Clarkey]

It is a low power laptop and quite a large power tank. Even around freezing it does ok. The 12v supply is 105Ah. If it is really cold I have a small heat mat that I can use to warm the laptop.

Having said this - 99% of the time I use mains😁

[smr]

On 07/01/2022 at 10:15, Capt Slog said:

I don't know what you're powering (yes, you put a list, but I don't know what they are), but what does each one 'draw' in terms of power, and hence, what will be the total load?

 

Not sure, how would I know that?

[smr]

On 07/01/2022 at 12:26, Len1257 said:

I use a GEM45,  with ASI2600 at -10C, 2A worth of dew control, EAF, ASI 120 guide cam and an Intel NUC via a converter all off an UltraMax 36Ah 12V (nominal) Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Battery in a homemade powerbox with suitable outlets/fuses etc. Lasts all night, probably most of the second night too. The NUC with SSD's is the highest consumer in my setup (2A to 4A peaks).

Note: my Laptop is inside with me in the comfy warm of my conservatory. A 90W laptop at 19V will be taking peak 4.7A. multiply that by your hours and that would need to go on top too or substitute for my NUC. Remember the nights are cold and batteries don't hold up so well when the temperature drops so you might want some safety factor built in.

You need to measure if you can your rigs current drain for a definitive answer.

I'm really not into DIY electrical/battery stuff so I'd have to buy a product off the shelf.

[Capt Slog]

5 minutes ago, smr said:

Not sure, how would I know that?

I'm just trying to work out how long that battery pack will last.  So, need to know what it says on individual items.  There's usually a label somewhere displaying the wattage (or the amps at a certain voltage, then Watts = Amps x Volts).

The battery on Amazon said it's rated at 240Wh, (watt-hours) meaning it can (theoretically) power something that is 240w for an hour, 120w for 2 hours, 1w for 240 hours etc.  It's not going to do quite that, it depends on other factors, but that's the idea.  

The total watts you need is divided into the 240wh, you'll get the MAXIMUM number of hours you can expect to run between charges.

 

[smr]

5 minutes ago, Capt Slog said:

I'm just trying to work out how long that battery pack will last.  So, need to know what it says on individual items.  There's usually a label somewhere displaying the wattage (or the amps at a certain voltage, then Watts = Amps x Volts).

The battery on Amazon said it's rated at 240Wh, (watt-hours) meaning it can (theoretically) power something that is 240w for an hour, 120w for 2 hours, 1w for 240 hours etc.  It's not going to do quite that, it depends on other factors, but that's the idea.  

The total watts you need is divided into the 240wh, you'll get the MAXIMUM number of hours you can expect to run between charges.

 

Does this help? On ZWO website for the 2600MC Pro..

Camera Power consumption: 1.15A at 5V
Cooler Power consumption: 12V at 3A Max

[Carbon Brush]

Not exactly following the same direction as others.

If I read it correctly, you propose to use the low voltage lithium battery 'generator' to produce mains, to power all of your kit.

You are intending to use 240V (heart stopping and hair curling if it escapes) in a damp field, when all of your kit (laptop exlcuded) will run from a 12V supply.

Further, you are going to use the 'generator' lithium battery to produce 240V, with significant conversion losses, then step down from 240V to 12V, with conversion losses again, to run the equipment.

The 'generator' is quoted as being 240watt-hours. This is the equivalent of a 12Volts 20 amp hours powerbank. Enough to run a night of imaging.
But the conversion losses described above mean you won't see anythingl ike the 'on the tin' capacity. I would be surprised if you get 2/3 of this power.

May I suggest a different approach?
Buy a 12V battery. Run the scope, camera, etc from this supply.
See how long your laptop will run standalone. Then if necessary buy a 12V to 19V (or whatever is needed) power supply for the laptop.

The discussions on buying a leisure battery, good quality sealed lead acid, or a lithium pack can wait.

HTH, David.

 

[smr]

2 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

Not exactly following the same direction as others.

If I read it correctly, you propose to use the low voltage lithium battery 'generator' to produce mains, to power all of your kit.

You are intending to use 240V (heart stopping and hair curling if it escapes) in a damp field, when all of your kit (laptop exlcuded) will run from a 12V supply.

Further, you are going to use the 'generator' lithium battery to produce 240V, with significant conversion losses, then step down from 240V to 12V, with conversion losses again, to run the equipment.

The 'generator' is quoted as being 240watt-hours. This is the equivalent of a 12Volts 20 amp hours powerbank. Enough to run a night of imaging.
But the conversion losses described above mean you won't see anythingl ike the 'on the tin' capacity. I would be surprised if you get 2/3 of this power.

May I suggest a different approach?
Buy a 12V battery. Run the scope, camera, etc from this supply.
See how long your laptop will run standalone. Then if necessary buy a 12V to 19V (or whatever is needed) power supply for the laptop.

The discussions on buying a leisure battery, good quality sealed lead acid, or a lithium pack can wait.

HTH, David.

 

Yeah as I said I have no idea how to power all of my gear and that battery was just a suggestion but I realise from your post that it isn't suitable - this is really the point of the post - I'm trying to ascertain what exactly I do need.

It's really no use to say to me buy a 12v battery, as I have no idea exactly what 12v battery to get so links to actual suitable products would be more helpful.

[smr]

I may make a video tonight of my setup and post it on here so you can see what I'm powering and what would be suitable, for me, maybe that would be easier.

[symmetal]

To get an accurate reading of what power you are actually using it may be worth getting something like this to plug into the RCD and then plug your extension into the meter. While you're imaging, It will give a continuous display of the actual power being used (watts), as well as the curent (amps) which would then give you a good indication of how long the portable power unit would last delivering that same power. 

Current/power ratings printed on your devices like camera, mount and laptop are the maximum power they can use rather than the average power in use, which is normally much lower, so are unreliable as actual indicators of power required.

Alan

[Iem1]

I am in the exact same predicament, need to power my setup out in the sticks as I always travel to a dark sky.

I am not DIY capable either and would probably be a danger to myself, my equipment, and anyone within a 100 m radius if I tried   so from what I gather, I need to go the expensive route. 

I have ordered this: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/celestron-lithium-lifepo4-powertank-pro.html to go with my new EQ6-R Pro mount. Not yet sure if this will be exclusively enough for my full set up down the road to reliably get a night of imaging done, I am pretty sure I will need a smaller version too (Sky-watcher company video recommends running the EQ6-R Pro from a separate bank to the rest of your gear anyway). I will work out which draws the most, the mount on its own or the combination of cameras/ASIair pro and split stuff accordingly so each battery is running smooth and reliably.

It is expensive compared to DIY methods/other methods, but at this point, that is a drop in the ocean in this hobby! And if it means I have a safe (for me + my gear) and reliable way to power everything then it is worth it to me.

I will let you know how the battery performs out in the cold soon with the mount.

 

[dannybgoode]

I have been mulling this for a while now and finally bit the bullet and bought a Pegasus Astro Pocket PowerBox Advance.  This powers the mount, camera, filter wheel, focuser and mini PC and makes wiring very straightforward.  

I have also just bought one of these

Bison BATTERY BOX CARRIER WITH USB CHARGER, LED METER, BREAKER & 12V SOCKET : Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

So, car battery in the Bison, 12v cigarette charger type lead from Bison to PowerBox, PowerBox to everything else.  Job jobbed.  I have a little wifi travel router thing so can hook into the mini PC to control it via Remote Desktop. 

So, process will be.  At home log into mini PC and using NINA create the imaging sequences I think I'll go for that night and save them.  Then, at the field set everything up and then using the iPad, hook into the mini PC and load and run the imaging sequences.  I do have full control from the iPad so can change targets etc if necessary however it is a little bit fiddly just due to lack of keyboard and small screen but perfectly manageable.  But the more I can do at home the better in the initial set up the better.

The Bison will easily hold a 70A battery however mine is only a 40A but even then I'll get a good few hours imaging or observing.

Edited January 11, 2022 by dannybgoode

[Carbon Brush]

@Iem1 Yes you can construct 12V supplies yourself that are safe and reliable IF you have the knowledge and skills.
The Celestron kit is a good solution.

We are all connecting mounts, hubs, cameras, dew controls and computers in dark places.

Any arrangement needs to be as near 100% reliable as possible to avoid a wasted night.
A poor (intermittent) connection to a mount will mean (as a minimum) a re-align.
I have maintained for years that the little DC plugs on astro kit need either a cable tie base near the socket, or replacing with something better.

Second, lack of attention to detail can result in fried cameras and other expensive toys.
An example being different items, requiring different voltages, having the same (interchangeable) small black power plug.

Another (low cost) essential is of course a multimeter for diagnostics.
I am still amazed by how many people happily connect lots of expensive items together, completely unchecked.
This includes cheap unknown power supplies to expensive cameras!

@dannybgoodeThe bison box looks to be a good starter if going down the 'lead acid and some DIY' route.
Don't forget it is better to fit several lower current breakers for individual items.
If a breaker trips, you don't have all the fuss of working out which of several items caused the trip.
An alternative is to put a battery into a picnic cool box and build your own front/top panel with breakers, voltmeter, etc.

Slightly off topic but relevant. Lead acid doesn't perform so well when cold.
There are good arguments for getting the battery to room temperature before leaving home - then putting it into your insulated box. 

HTH, David.

[dannybgoode]

@Carbon Brush - I fly electric RC planes and helis and lipos don't like the cold any more than LA batteries to be fair.  If flying in the winter I leave the motor just idling to get the pack up to temperature before putting it under load.  Definitely good for their lifespan

That Bison box will take any 12v battery really.  At some point I'll get a decent sized LiFe battery but the advantage of LA is you get a lot of amps per £.  This disadvantage of course is the weight.  As for multiple circuit breakers, that is the beauty of the PPBA.  Just a single device plugged into the battery.  Makes like so easy  

I was going to built my own box but by the time I had bought the 12v panel, a suitable box, the wires etc the Bison was only marginally more expensive and looks well built and ready to go.

[Capt Slog]

9 hours ago, smr said:

Does this help? On ZWO website for the 2600MC Pro..

Camera Power consumption: 1.15A at 5V
Cooler Power consumption: 12V at 3A Max

At present you use 240v AC and transform that (through adaptors i assume) to run those.

There would be no point in using those adaptors to give you 12v Dc and 5v DC when that unit already outputs those voltages.  Sorry if I'm saying the obvious and you knew that. 

You just need the appropriate leads;  USB to camera and 12v cigar type plug to the cooler.

[curtisca17]

It is always best to measure the power for your own setup.  I made a video showing how easy this is to do.  But, if you don't think you can make your own measurements, you can get some pretty good estimates of what you will likely as I also provide detailed data on the power requirements for most typical equipment.  If you are using some sort of Raspberry Pi (like an ASI Air) or a mini-pc, and do not have a cooled camera or need the dew heater you probably use 20 - 30watts.  With a cooled camera add another 10 to 20watts depending upon the depth of cooling.  Same with a dew heater for a scope.  That puts one in the range of 50 - 60 watts.  If you have to power a laptop you can easily add ~30watts.  In any event, I put this video together to help people with this exact question since I had the same and worked through the details myself.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLIdo7zsU78&t=1s

Regards,

Curtis