[Help] Moving up to a better mount!

[raadoo]

After many hours spent tweaking and playing around with my AZ-GTi for the past year or so, I'm ready to move up to a more long-term mount and plead the wisdom of this fine group for some considered recommendations.

Things I care about:

• Equatorial GoTo
• Imaging, guided for both DSOs and planetary
• Portable, so low weight is paramount*
• Minimum imaging payload of ~10kg**
• Good track record of reliability, both hardware and software
• I'll continue to be using my AAP for a while so software compatibility is important
• < €2.5K

I've got a shortlist which looks like this:

	iOptron	Vixen	iOptron
	CEM40 / GEM45	SXD2	CEM26 / GEM28EC
Payload (sans cw)	18	15	12.7
Weight (head)	7.2	8.8	4.5
Price	2400	2600	2430
Comment	Seems like the best option, on paper, at least. Portable enough with payload that'll last me a while and generally seems like I it's unlikely I'll get a lemon.	Not the greatest payload to weight ratio, and the priciest of the bunch, but there's an assumed inherent quality, it coming from Vixen.	In their EC variant, the 26/28 reach the same price as the 40/45 series. I'm going to guide anyway so wondering if that RA encoder is worth it? Lightest of the bunch, but also flimsiest from what I read.

But I'm very open to other options, so please do recommend!

* In an ideal world, I'd go for the RST-135 in a heartbeat. But it's near twice my budget so it's a non-starter, sadly.

** A C8 equivalent is the heaviest I'll ever put on it. Not because I don't want to go heavier, but because my bad back would have words with me if I would dare huck a chonker around.

 

[vlaiv]

I vote iOptron.

Do consider using better tripod like Berlebach instead of stock steel tripod for better stability, but check from portability point of view if it will suit you. I added Berlebach Planet to my HEQ5 and it made a huge difference.

Btw - you don't need guiding for planetary imaging.

[raadoo]

7 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

I vote iOptron.

Do consider using better tripod like Berlebach instead of stock steel tripod for better stability, but check from portability point of view if it will suit you. I added Berlebach Planet to my HEQ5 and it made a huge difference.

Btw - you don't need guiding for planetary imaging.

@vlaiv You're one of the people here whose experience with their iOptron swayed me towards the CEM40! 😃 

I've purposely only mentioned the head weight for each mount above as I've been well sold on Berlebachs ever since I got my Report - but am planning on using an Uni for the new mount.

I am aware that planetary doesn't need guiding - that would in fact be one of the worse things I could do for my lunar images! 😁

[Stefek]

I do have GEM28EC as my second mount and with C8 Edge HD and OSC camera on , I can go unguided easily with 5min exposure at native 2m FL.  As you say , you will be guiding anyway, investment into encoders is not really justified.  I realized that this setup is a bit wind sensitive as it is very light all together.  BtW there are "plain" non-EC versions of 28 and 26 mounts available. 

In fact, "plain" GEM28 or CEM26 is a clear winner on portability-price - payload ratio. However if this is going to be your main mount , I suggest you seriously consider CEM40 or GEM45.

It would handle the weight easily, even if you add weight in the future, guiding with this load will be a piece of cake , and still very portable. 

Of course , Vixen is good , and whatever choice you make, it will not be wrong. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Stefek

[fireballxl5]

I've done similar with my GTi, spending quality imaging time this year trying to get good results at longer focal lengths using my 60mm refractor. You should add the Rainbow Astro 135 models as other options at this capability point, admittedly with another step-up in cost mind🤑

PS, just read your notes🙃

Edited November 28, 2021 by fireballxl5
added PS

[Whirlwind]

14 hours ago, raadoo said:

After many hours spent tweaking and playing around with my AZ-GTi for the past year or so, I'm ready to move up to a more long-term mount and plead the wisdom of this fine group for some considered recommendations.

The question I would ask is whether you can wait and build up some funds if you want a 'long term' mount.  It will open up more (and better) options.   The only experience I have is with the original SXD (different software) but found it a wonderfully light weight portable mount.  There were some known software bugs originally but I never came across these.  However I understand the SXP2 is much superior to the SXD2 option these days.  You've already noted the RA-135E is out of budget but if you could wait 6/12 months would that become viable?  I always find the worst feeling is "if I'd only been a bit more patient" etc.  

[raadoo]

9 hours ago, Whirlwind said:

The question I would ask is whether you can wait and build up some funds if you want a 'long term' mount.  It will open up more (and better) options.   The only experience I have is with the original SXD (different software) but found it a wonderfully light weight portable mount.  There were some known software bugs originally but I never came across these.  However I understand the SXP2 is much superior to the SXD2 option these days.  You've already noted the RA-135E is out of budget but if you could wait 6/12 months would that become viable?  I always find the worst feeling is "if I'd only been a bit more patient" etc.  

It's a fair point and one I've personally made to others in the past as well. We do need to define a few parameters before moving forward with this thread:

• Long-term Mount: I'm thinking 3-5 years. Past that, I'd be looking at what I call a Forever Mount (e.g. 10Micron)
• We can always extend the idea of if I'd only been a bit more patient more and more. And with it, budget. But a line must be drawn. So I'll extend that waiting to your proposed 6 months and up the budget to under €4k.

That being said, I have very little knowledge of that market or what's reliable / flaky, so any recommendations and ideas are very welcome!

[Whirlwind]

13 hours ago, raadoo said:

It's a fair point and one I've personally made to others in the past as well. We do need to define a few parameters before moving forward with this thread:

• Long-term Mount: I'm thinking 3-5 years. Past that, I'd be looking at what I call a Forever Mount (e.g. 10Micron)
• We can always extend the idea of if I'd only been a bit more patient more and more. And with it, budget. But a line must be drawn. So I'll extend that waiting to your proposed 6 months and up the budget to under €4k.

That being said, I have very little knowledge of that market or what's reliable / flaky, so any recommendations and ideas are very welcome!

It doesn't have to be and it really depends on what you want.  All I can go on is from my own experience.  I went from a CG5 - Vixen SXD - Mach1GTO.  In hindsight I would have probably been better to have gone straight to the Mach1GTO based on what I wanted to achieve at the time.  Nevertheless the SXD (although not planned) still provides a very useful 'holiday' mount as it is much more portable than the Mach1 (so I still have it).  The Mach1 is probably my forever, but not in an observatory mount.  When I get my own house in the countryside, in dark skies etc (I wish) then I will plan for an observatory mount....lol  Although if your current mount is on its last legs than you may be pushed into that earlier decision anyway (it really depends on why you want to upgrade).  But I do take the point that you can't wait forever otherwise you will never get anything!

[raadoo]

46 minutes ago, Whirlwind said:

It doesn't have to be and it really depends on what you want.  All I can go on is from my own experience.  I went from a CG5 - Vixen SXD - Mach1GTO.  In hindsight I would have probably been better to have gone straight to the Mach1GTO based on what I wanted to achieve at the time.  Nevertheless the SXD (although not planned) still provides a very useful 'holiday' mount as it is much more portable than the Mach1 (so I still have it).  The Mach1 is probably my forever, but not in an observatory mount.  When I get my own house in the countryside, in dark skies etc (I wish) then I will plan for an observatory mount....lol  Although if your current mount is on its last legs than you may be pushed into that earlier decision anyway (it really depends on why you want to upgrade).  But I do take the point that you can't wait forever otherwise you will never get anything!

That's exactly the kind of experience I'm looking to learn from, thank you!

[900SL]

Based on your list of requirements (which align pretty closely with mine), the Vixen. Although I'm oscillating between the SXD2 and SXP2 belt drive. 

I'm likely to buy one in the new year and for similar reasons. Portability, good QA/QC, reliability, good guided performance, and the Starbook 10 go-to seems like a great system. 

Portability is the big thing for me. I prefer to drive to dark sky sites

 

[raadoo]

1 hour ago, 900SL said:

Based on your list of requirements (which align pretty closely with mine), the Vixen. Although I'm oscillating between the SXD2 and SXP2 belt drive. 

I'm likely to buy one in the new year and for similar reasons. Portability, good QA/QC, reliability, good guided performance, and the Starbook 10 go-to seems like a great system. 

Portability is the big thing for me. I prefer to drive to dark sky sites

 

I'm finding it quite difficult to consider the SXP2...

	Vixen	Rainbow Astro
	SXP2	RST-135
Payload	17kg	18kg
Weight	11kg (head) + 3.7kg (cw)	3.3kg (head) + 3kg (cw)
Price	€ 4,300	€ 4,500

  

Edited December 2, 2021 by raadoo

[900SL]

23 minutes ago, raadoo said:

I'm finding it quite difficult to consider the SXP2...

	Vixen	Rainbow Astro
	SXP2	RST-135
Payload	17kg	18kg
Weight	11kg (head) + 3.7kg (cw)	3.3kg (head) + 3kg (cw)
Price	€ 4,300	€ 4,500

  

Yes, the RST 135 has a lot going for it. The PE is pretty poor unguided though..

 

I'll likely stick with the SXD2 and get a decent scope with the €2K remainder..  

Edited December 2, 2021 by 900SL

[scotty38]

At that price wouldn’t you throw the CEM-70 in to the mix?

[vlaiv]

14 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

At that price wouldn’t you throw the CEM-70 in to the mix?

I guess portability?

In that price range - GTD E.Fric is probably best option - except it is larger / heavier and can carry 30Kg.

[scotty38]

1 minute ago, vlaiv said:

I guess portability?

In that price range - GTD E.Fric is probably best option - except it is larger / heavier and can carry 30Kg.

Yep, worth noting the requirements 😀

[raadoo]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

I guess portability?

In that price range - GTD E.Fric is probably best option - except it is larger / heavier and can carry 30Kg.

Indeed, portability is key. On top of that, payloads over ~12kg photographic are not relevant to my use case (bad back, have my own weight limits to take into account).

[Whirlwind]

There's always going to be some sacrifices because of the number of restrictions.  From what I can tell these are what you might call portable:-

SXD2/SXP2 (as discussed)
Ioptron CEM40 (and smaller already noted)
RST-135 (already mentioned)
Crux140 (13kg imaging payload, similar concept to RST135)
AstroTrac 360 GEM (Just enough payload for requirements at 10kg)
Panther TTS160 (above value threshold and individual components may still be too heavy)
Avalon Instruments M-Zero (only 8kg capacity for individual 'scope)
Losmandy GM811G (fits all criteria?  Also the GM8 for less capacity)
Fornax Lightrack II (stated as 12kg max payload with c/w but have no experience with this type of mount, I think the max imaging time is limited to about 100 mins before a rewind is needed).

I can't think of any more?

[raadoo]

You lot will be death of my wallet! 😄

Early Christmas present from the missus came in the very red shape of an RST-135! 🥰 Guess she was well sick of my indecision. 😆

We all love a good setup shot, so here's mine after re-cabling, troubleshooting and general tinkering:

Early reports are that everything works as expected with 0 hiccups and 0 problems.

The little RST-135 may not be premium in some people's eyes but having fondled the thing in and out for the past 24h, it definitely feels premium to me.

With no use for counterweights (there's no backdrive with my setup), this whole setup ended up weighing 2kg less than my previous, AZ-GTi + Berlebach Report, setup, so definitely a win for both portability and my back! 🤘

Big thanks to all of you for the help and planting the seed of the RST-135 firmly in my head. It was undoubtedly the right choice for my needs.