Televue

[jetstream]

This is way off what I normally talk about as I have a diverse set of eyepieces and equipment.

It seems as if there are some companies that are dropping astronomical eyepieces from their line up like Docter. Explore Scientific prices are going way up as is the rest of everything.

IMHO, Televue has set a high standard for astronomical eyepieces to which many are compared to. It seems as if they have weathered the storm of cheap, Nagler type competitive eyepieces- well I hope so.

I kind of wonder if we should "heard up" around Televue?

If this company is gone we might be paying huge prices for eyepieces for "other" brands. I have no financial or other interests in Televue but its in our best interest if this company continues to do well.IMHO.

If this thread is off base mods please remove, its just a thought. I'm curious what others think thats all.

[Littleguy80]

Interesting idea, Gerry. My first thought is that competition is healthy. It drives those at the top to keep innovating to stay at the top. APM seem to be releasing good quality new eyepieces at good prices too. Their upcoming super zoom looks to be something new rather than a direct clone of another eyepiece. I think Televue will be fine. At the very least, it’s within their control to remain successful. 

[JeremyS]

I have a load of Tele Vue Naglers. Great eyepieces (apart from undercuts). There are other good quality wide field eyepiece manufacturers like Pentax XW and Baader Morpheus.

Not sure TV is at particular risk. They seem to focus pretty heavily on their eyepiece ranges. 
 

 

[jetstream]

6 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

APM seem to be releasing good quality new eyepieces at good prices too

I agree and I wonder why their price point is so competitive and if the likes of Televue is not there if these prices would remain.

8 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

It drives those at the top to keep innovating to stay at the top.

I'm not sure how much innovating can be done in such a mature technology... Zeiss set a very high standard years ago with ZAOII, not really matched again and got out of the business due to a small market (guess). It would sure be nice to buy ZAOII at their original price + inflation.

[Deadlake]

To explain the costs difference apart from the Tele Vue brand, a lot of EP's are made by KUO whereas Tele Vue fabrication is in Taiwan.

If say APM or ES brands are going up then supply chain is having an influence on price. Cost of labour and raw materials.

The free lunch is over maybe?

Nikon and Takahashi are competitive with Tele Vue IMHO. Same time Nikon EP's are a lot cheaper in Japan than Europe. Vixen telescopes are similar price to Takahashi in Japan and then large markup in EU.
 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Deadlake

[Louis D]

A related question would be, would Nikon have come out with the NAV-HW line if the Tele Vue Ethos hadn't already proven a market for them?

Would other companies have made well corrected 82 degree UWA eyepieces if the Tele Vue Nagler T1 hadn't already proven a market for them?

Maybe they would have eventually, but I'm pretty sure TV lit a fire under their collective behinds to play catch-up.

Even military eyepieces of the 1960s to the 1980s with their huge per item price and huge sizes weren't really up to the level set by TV in the 1980s and beyond.

[mtminnesota]

3 hours ago, Deadlake said:

...Tele Vue fabrication is in Taiwan...
 

My Plossls, Nagler zooms, and Nagler Type 6s are all marked Japan.  I think there is maybe one more line also, but yes most are Taiwan.

 

[Deadlake]

8 hours ago, Louis D said:

A related question would be, would Nikon have come out with the NAV-HW line if the Tele Vue Ethos hadn't already proven a market for them?

I thought Nikon’s NAV-HW line where a spin off from their microscope lines?

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, Deadlake said:

I thought Nikon’s NAV-HW line where a spin off from their microscope lines?

I've never heard that.  I highly doubt it because microscope eyepieces are generally compact for binoviewer usage.  I could believe the NAV-SW being a spin off of either microscope or spotting scope eyepieces, though, since they are so compact.

I recall reading on CN (but I can't locate the discussion now) that Al Nagler related a story at a star party of having met some Nikon optical designers at some point at a conference or some such.  They freely admitted that they reverse engineered the Ethos eyepieces as the starting point for the NAV-HW line.  Since TV never patented the design, and it was merely the inspiration for their design, there were no hard feelings.

[jetstream]

The Nikon HW is not without issues- the glass is top notch but the eyeguard is useless and then there is that barrel collar...the 17E is much more friendly in this regard.The Nikon SW's are good I've heard but possibly not Delos sharp.

[jetstream]

From Agenaastro

"Nikon commemorated the International Year of Astronomy 2009 with the birth of their NAV-SW series eyepieces in five different focal lengths. Nikon NAV SWs eyepieces, based on their excellent eyepieces for Nikon spotting scopes"

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

17 hours ago, jetstream said:

I agree and I wonder why their price point is so competitive and if the likes of Televue is not there if these prices would remain.

I'm not sure how much innovating can be done in such a mature technology... Zeiss set a very high standard years ago with ZAOII, not really matched again and got out of the business due to a small market (guess). It would sure be nice to buy ZAOII at their original price + inflation.

ZAOII EPs are next to useless for those who wear glasses, for all their excellence. All optics are a compromise, and the ZAOs and other Abbe orthoscopics and monocentrics sacrificed eye relief and FOV. Having cylindrical astigmatism, I MUCH prefer the Pentax XWs, TV Delos, and Vixen SLV/LVW types. ES is also on to something with their 92 deg EPs (sadly, just two, but happily, I have them), with better eye relief than the Ethos range. These ES 92s replaced my already excellent TV Nagler type 4, giving more FOV, but more importantly sharper images. New types of glass, and cheaper production of aspherical optical surfaces are just two areas which could lead to even better eyepieces.

[jetstream]

2 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

New types of glass, and cheaper production of aspherical optical surfaces are just two areas which could lead to even better eyepieces.

Have you heard what these new types of glass could be? How does making cheaper aspherical optics better? (other than being less expensive?)

Its curious that Vixen seems to be trimming back the eyepiece line up too if there are less expensive ways to produce.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

4 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Have you heard what these new types of glass could be? How does making cheaper aspherical optics better? (other than being less expensive?)

Its curious that Vixen seems to be trimming back the eyepiece line up too if there are less expensive ways to produce.

If aspherical surfaces become cheaper, it becomes more affordable to incorporate them in designs. I haven't heard of specific glass types, but I know from my colleagues at the Kapteyn Astronomical Institute and SRON (the Dutch Space Research Foundation) that the big producers of optical glass are still developing new stuff. Much of that finds a way into camera lenses (much bigger market), or spotting scopes and binoculars, of course. You can definitely see improvements (generally first at the high-end section of the market) in recent years. I compared the Zeiss Victory SF 10x42 side by side with the earlier Victory FL type, and there are small, but definite improvements to be seen. The Abbe orthoscopic design itself was based on classic crown and flint glass elements from the 1880 (and no coating, MgF2 coatings were introduced by Zeiss in 1935 or thereabouts). Had Ernst Abbe had modern ED and fluorite glass at his disposal, who knows what his designs had looked like.

[jetstream]

2 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

I haven't heard of specific glass types, but I know from my colleagues at the Kapteyn Astronomical Institute and SRON (the Dutch Space Research Foundation) that the big producers of optical glass are still developing new stuff.

This is great news!

I eagerly wait to try these new glass types at good price points in astronomical eyepieces!

[jetstream]

I have a few Zeiss optics- all superb- an old Zeiss T coating rangefinder monocular type has better glass and views than a set of Pentax binos I had. The Zeiss T coating zoom 25.1-6.7 also has "zero" (not detectable to me) scatter and is one of my few truly sharp eyepieces, my 2" Zeiss prism is also beyond compare. Then there is the Docter 12.5 UWA (no longer produced).

Question- if there are already glass types, polish levels and coating technologies out there that only a very few use what chance do we have of ever getting the newest latest techno glass out there in astro eyepieces coming up?

I wonder if there are any widefields that go deeper than Delos? any Pentax XW users experience?

Edited August 24, 2021 by jetstream

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

7 minutes ago, jetstream said:

This is great news!

I eagerly wait to try these new glass types at good price points in astronomical eyepieces!

It may take a while before they trickle through, of course. Many "new" glasses are of course variations on existing ones, with subtly different properties, but a larger variety of glasses means more degrees of freedom in design.

I have also seen some stuff on 3D printed optics. That could lead to more affordable prototyping or production of small runs.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

1 minute ago, jetstream said:

I have a few Zeiss optics- all superb- an old Zeiss T coating rangefinder monocular type has better glass and views than a set of Pentax binos I had. The Zeiss T coating zoom 25.1-6.7 also has "zero" (not detectable to me) scatter and is one of my few truly sharp eyepieces, my 2" Zeiss prism is also beyond compare. Then there is the Docter 12.5 UWA (no longer produced).

Question- if there are already glass types, polish levels and coating technologies out there that only a very few use what chance do we have of ever getting the newest latest techno glass out there in astro eyepieces coming up?

I wonder if there are ant widefields that go deeper than Delos? any Pentax XW users experience?

I have a series of Delos (6, 8, and 14mm) and Pentax XW (5, 7 and 10 mm) EPs. Other than focal length, I could not really say which is better. Their performances are so closely matched, it is really a matter of seeing conditions that dictates which I prefer at any given point in time

[Space Hopper]

I think we are blessed to have a company like Tele-vue in this hobby.

Look at how their eyepieces have evolved over the last 20 years.

Wonderful eyepieces, innovative designs from the likes of Al Nagler Paul Dellechiaie that have enriched our hobby so much.

Long may they continue ( I have 6 :  2 pair of Panoptics and a couple of Powermates)

 

I do have other brands as well, and it looks like i managed to get one of the last batches of Docter UWAs before they were discontinued.

 

 

[jetstream]

11 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

i managed to get one of the last batches of Docter UWAs

This Jena Zeiss spinoff company produced one of the finest eyepieces ever, IMHO. Very sorry to see it go. They have very unique characteristics.

[jetstream]

One really amazing TV piece of glass is the Paracorr II. I held off for years before getting one- I cannot find one negative to it. Somehow it appears to enhance contrast on bright nebula in both my truss dobs ie the Veil. Not sure how or why it does but it does, to my eyes.

[Space Hopper]

I'm not actually 100% certain Docter Noblex are no more, but rumours seem to indicate that its true.

I actually had a pair for 2 eyed viewing but decided to sell one of them last year.

I sold it to someone on here, and i often wonder how hes getting on with it ?

My remaining one is a keeper though, and it performs beautifully mono style, with and without a Powermate option.

[John]

When ES produced their own designs such as the 92's, the 30mm 3 inch and the 9mm 120 degree, it was interesting to see that their retail prices (before the latest round of increases) were much higher than those of the 68, 82 and 100 degree ranges where they could piggyback on the development work done by Tele Vue.

I suspected that ES were, for quite a long time, setting prices that were more about capturing market share than making profits. I guess, with their new pricing levels, at least in the USA and Canada, they are in for a lean time with regard to eyepiece sales for a while

 

 

 

[jetstream]

22 minutes ago, John said:

, they are in for a lean time with regard to eyepiece sales for a while

As long as Televue and maybe Nikon or Pentax are still around IMHO... just guessing. I would think that astro eyepieces are a small sideline for the last 2 mentioned.

[Don Pensack]

15 hours ago, mtminnesota said:

 

Delites are also Japan.