Astronomy Societies - your view

[centroid]

In the interest of trying to stimulate some discussion on the forum, during a winter that seems to have been plagued by cloud , and infrequent clear skies, lets see what you views are on Astro Societies.

Here are mine:

Local Club: I first joined my local club about 20 years ago, knowing little or nothing about astronomy, with view to meeting like minded people, and learning from those more experienced. However, I found the club very 'cliquey', and my feeling that asking basic questions was an irritation. As A result, I left the club, sold my scope (6" Newt), and lost interest in the hobby.

I returned to the hobby, some 15 years later, this time having read a great deal, so with more knowledge 'on board'. Some time after this, I went along to an 'open evening' at the old club, and in talking to some of the members, I discovered that there had been significant regime changes within the club, and that it was now very much more 'beginner friendly'.

However, I'd moved on a bit now, and got involved with the series of 'workshops' run by the club, to help those new to the hobby.

I remained a member of the club for a few years, but found that my attendance tailed off to pretty much zero. This trend was mainly due to the fact, that apart from the 'workshops', conversation at the club, was very much less than stimulating. The majority of members being pretty much 'armchair astronomers', and I was the only member, out of around 100, that was involved in astro imaging.

When my membership expired at the end of December, I decided not to renew.

Back at the beginning of 2005, I joined the UKAI forum, where I was abe to share my enthusiasm, and ask questions of well informed people. In Feb 2007, I joined the then quite small (700 members) SGL.

These two forums added so much to my enjoyment of the hobby. I have learnt much, from the discussions that have taken place. Shared my own experiences with others, and learnt from theirs.

The 'icing on the cake', is that now via SGL, I get to meet personally with the many friends I have made, both at our 'local meets', and at 'star parties'.

The SPA: I was a member of the SPA for quite a few years, but last year I decided that, apart from a magazine, the SPA offered very little, if anything, to me personally, and I terminated my membership.

The BAA: I have on several occassions, looked at BAA membership, but have never found it to offer anything that I wanted or needed, and as such considered the money could be better spent elswhere.

It would seem that the BAA are 'feeling the pinch' in the current economic climate, as both on their website, and in a 'flyer' in this month's AN, they are offering 18 months membership for the price of 12, plus several 'freebie goodies'. However, its still not for me.

FRAS: I don't know much about this organisation, but as I understand it, its a bit of an 'old boys act' setup, whereby you have to be recommended for membership, by another member. A bit ike some of the more 'snobby' golf clubs I guess.

Of course, you do get to put the intials FRAS after your name , 'whoopee doo'. If that's good for you, then why not, but its not my scene.

So, over to you guys and gals

Dave

[Dangerous-Dave]

Interesting post Dave. I suspect the simple explanation is an astronomical society only has two unifying factors - geography and interest in astronomy - whereas on the internet you have a greater chance of meeting people with the exact same interests. I noticed a similar thing when I moved from Sunderland to London in the early 90's, it is easier to "find your niche" in a larger community.

The astro soc I got to is small and hard to be cliquey, so I enjoy it a lot. But there are some people I still don't know the names of!

[TheThing]

I belonged to my local club - Croydon Astro - for many 4 0r 5 years, but I found them unhelpful and cliquey. Frequently, they'd email asking for volunteers to help open up the observatory for this group or that. I'd e-mail back offering to help, only to be ignored! It was very mcuh like an old boys club - unless you'd been a member for years they weren't even interested in talking to you or knowing your name!

It came to something when the clubs official astonomer confessed that he did little observing, just spent his time surfing the web for astronomy related subjects!

Strangely enough, when I e-mailed them to cancel my membership, they suddenly became interested in me and I eve got an e-mail from the chairman. Too little, too late!

I did join SPA, but it has little to offer really. The magazine is ok, but not worth the membership price alone.

Most of my 'learning' comes from this forum and the S@N magazine.

[Ben Ritchie]

I've had a couple of tries at joining local clubs. Generally everybody is friendly enough, if a bit cliquey, but both times there was a contingent who seemed to have a problem with research Astronomy and a resident 'expert' or two who felt the need to argue at every opportunity. That got me flagged as 'the enemy', which was enough to make me feel fairly unwelcome.

As for the BAA/RAS, i'm a member of both but often wonder why. I guess with the BAA you get out what you put in, and I don't put in anything in particular, but i'm not sure what the RAS is for really. I wouldn't dream of putting FRAS after my name though, given that you require no qualifications or ability in Astronomy to get it and do nothing other than pay a fee each year then it's purely a vanity title, it's not a real Fellowship. So I generally treat it as a sign of someone who needs to take themselves a little less seriously

[jgs001]

I've recently joined the Adur Astro Soc, run by Robin and Trev (from here). The monthly guides are provided by Ed (MrEd) and Steve (Steppenwolf), there's a few tech guides on the website provided by Astro_Baby (Thanks Mel, the HEQ5 stuff was and is Brill). I've only attended a couple of meetings, but good info, and friendly people.

[centroid]

Interesting replies guys, and it seems that there is common theme here. Local clubs can be 'cliquey', and not particularly friendly towards the novice/newcomer.

Perhaps the exception here, being the newly formed Adur society, which was I believe, formed mainly from members of this forum. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that its a friendly place.

Ben, I think that in all clubs and societies, astro or otherwise, there will always be the 'psuedo expert' or 'barrack room lawyer', who is often full of no more than 'wind and p***'.

Forums can also become 'cliquey' if they are allowed to. I saw this trend once on another large UK based astro forum, although that isn't the case there now.

Its nice to be able to say, that I've never seen even a hint of this on SGL.

The thought "I often wonder why", pretty much summed up my membership of the SPA. Nothing can be 'all things to all people', and I'm sure the SPA is appreciated by many, but for me there was no benefit from it what so ever. Yes, the magazine was ok, but with having AN and S at N mags, the SPA Mag offered nothing different.

With BAA, as someone commented the other day, it arose out of what was a London based 'gentlemans club', and never moved with the times.

There are people that are members of the BAA, such as Tom Boles, of Supernova fame, who undertake scientific work, within amateur astronomy. I guess perhaps that the BAA is very much biased towards this type of amateur astronomy.

From my perspective, and I could of course be wrong, the BAA doesn't address the interests of majority of amateur astronomers with the UK. Perhaps if they did, they wouldn't need to 'dangle carrots', in order to attract members.

I find your comments on the RAS, quite amusing Ben, and most likely a very apt description. The recent 'grilling' of the shamed 'fat cat' bankers springs to mind, when they were all asked what banking qualifications they had. To a man, they all answered "none".

Dave

[Ben Ritchie]

Perhaps the exception here, being the newly formed Adur society, which was I believe, formed mainly from members of this forum. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that its a friendly place.

I've been meaning to come along to an Adur meeting at some point, because it's not all that far from me - life's just been very busy recently.

[ZOG]

I sort of did it the other way round. When I first considered getting a scope I joined SGL (much smaller than now) and it was a mine of useful information. I tootled along quite happily until a couple of months ago when I joined the Kielder observatory association. I found the guys up there to be very friendly and helpful, through them I also met the guys from Northumberland astro who again are a great bunch.

I think astronomy is rapidly losing it's highbrow image and the new breed of amateurs, on the whole are a down to earth and friendly bunch of folk.

[Viking]

I joined an Astro Society along with my grand daughter. We were both attending night school for GCSE in Astronomy. We only attended the beginners evenings that typically had 20+ attending (including those experts who wanted to debate). After a few visits, the Chairman still came round taking the attendance and asking if you were a member.

I must have missed the beginners part of the society, since the lectures were more for the advanced members. Some lectures did confirm lessons that complimented our GCSE course.

The expert members in the audience were there partly for the debate, but more so for the entertainment at the end of the evening. This was quite noticeable with their positive vocal comments about the rest of the evening.

The society was on our limits for travel. Thankfully, a new CLUB is starting in Swindon - this Friday the 20th at 7.30pm. Like the Adur, there are going to be a number of members from SGL.

What do I want. Coming late into the hobby, a year (to the day) younger than Ron - I would like the Club to be "hands on" and activity based. For the beginner, starting from scratch, perhaps with a mentor. I am hopeful that it will serve us well.

I haven't joined any of the national societies etc., nor subscribed to any of the magazines. When in the US, I do manage to look through some of the astronomy magazines in the HUGE bookseller outlets. My feeling is that I can get everything I need from SGL (images etc), some astronomy books and the internet.

I have high hopes for the Swindon venture.

John

[NickH]

I think you generally get out what you put in to anything. SGL/UKAI/CN etc provide huge resources of info, help and nice people to talk to about a common set of interests. Societies, as with anything in life are clubs, and can be as good or as bad as the people in them. I enjoyed going to WOLAS when I lived in London, and enjoy WAS in Wiltshire. Used to be a member of the SPA, and BAA...but aside from Lyn in the Solar section of the BAA, felt I didn't really get to go to many events, talk to many people or probably get what I hoped for...ergo, you get what you put in..

WAS is a very active society, always running outreach events, broadcasting on the radio, setting up observatories, regular (clouds permitting) observing evenings, workshops, and annual Q&A forums...and after speake talks.. etc..and from speaking to other societies, I get the feeling that most of them are very much into the same things..

Also a great way to make friends.. some of whom will probably now be lifelong...

[jakey]

I also attempted an astro society but the people within it seemed far removed from myself. They were sort of "Dwain Dibley" characters.

If you watched red Dwarf you will know what I mean.

[NickH]

I find your comments on the RAS, quite amusing Ben, and most likely a very apt description. The recent 'grilling' of the shamed 'fat cat' bankers springs to mind, when they were all asked what banking qualifications they had. To a man, they all answered "none".

Dave

Having visited the RAS recently, I have to say that I found Peter Hingley and Ian Ridpath both charming and incredibly knowledgeable, more than justifying in both instances any postnominal FRAS status. The library at the RAS along with Peter, who runs it, just simply staggering as a resource for research.

I do get what you mean Dave, but I don't think it applies to everyone

[Ben Ritchie]

Don't get me wrong Nick, there are some superb Astronomers - both from the professional and amateur ranks - in the RAS, no doubt at all. Professionally I do wonder a bit about how effective the society itself is and what role it serves, but that's not really for this discussion.

I would far rather see the 'FRAS' tag applied to those who have earned it, as with other professional bodies - in which case I wouldn't have it either. Given that it's entirely an honorific though I think it's really rather pretentious to use it.

[centroid]

My opening words at the start of this 'thread' were "In the interest of trying to stimulate some discussion.......".

It has certainly done that, and thank you to those who repsonded.

Its nice to read the views of others on any particular subject, and I think in general, you end up with a fairly balanced view. Albeit in this case, so far, only a handful of people have presented their opnion.

Dave

[Psychobilly]

I have promised myself that I will never join an astro soc... and have also got reservatiosn about attending star parties or viewing evenings... The imagign side oif things is purely for "art" and not science... although I enjoy the technological side of things... it's soemthing I do for fun and thanks to SGL can share with others...

Why?...

Becasue a certain local Astro prof doesn't believe the images that I can produce from my home site using the gear I have at hand... the thought of spending an evening in the company of more like him is just.......welll how can I put it.... only slightly more appealing that root canal work without aneasthetic...

Billy...

[George]

FRAS.....sounds like some dinosaur outfit that should have died years ago, cash for honors comes to mind

I went to a BAA meeting about 18 years ago and can say it was the most boring event I have ever attended, put me off joining any sort of local society

[Dave]

I have attended astro socs. throughout most of my teeage and adult life. I have made some fantastic friends, shared some wonderful observing evenings and learnt a lot from other people's experience. I also hope that by showing some of the stuff I have been doing, I will inspire others to have a go. Each type of society has its place, people have widely different reasons for being members, some just want to learn for knowledge sakes, many being armchair astronomers, rarely observing. It seems to be a small proportion of society members who are really active observers or imagers. I have enjoyed being a member of the SPA since my teens and still enjoy the magazine and the newsletter. If I want to send in observations (very rarely) I can. The BAA does appear to be a tad too serious and people can feel somewhat intimidated by that. Everyone finds out what they enjoy, and that's what makes us humans so interesting, we are all so different. The main thing is to really enjoy our hobby within the comfort of your experience and financial resources, no matter what you aim to achieve from it.

[mdstuart]

Well I go to the Bristol Astronomical society and I have enjoyed every meeting. Loads of interesting talks, very friendly people, club night every two weeks with more amateur info etc. So nothing but praise for our local club...

[Astro_Baby]

I used to go to a society in Portsmouth years ago but it was indeed full of Duane Diblits plus its was somewhat cliquely and unless you had made your own telescope and were an expert in mirror making and knew every single fact about the universe you were kind of left out. I was younger then and prettier so I suppose I probably got made an exception of to a small degree.

When I came back into this about 12 months ago I looked at a few Astro Societies but found there wwre usually two problems......

1/ The never answered emails and their websites were somewhat uninformative. One who did answer emails suggested as a 'novice' I could maybe come along but probably wouldn't be interested as they were all 'experts'

2/ The talks they were giving were B-O-R-I-N-G - it was almost as if they felt they had to get someone to give a lecture no matter how arcane and about 90% of what they were having a talk on had zero application to an amateur - I mean if I want to learn about very in-depth astro phyics I'll go take a degree. If I want to know a little about fusion power I'll watch a few TV programs. I wont gop and sit in a cold hall on an uncomfy chair and litsne to a very dull speaker talk about it.

Just as I despaired I saw Trevor on here saying he was starting up a more practical group with the aim of being friendly, doing outreach stuff and having talks that are useful, understandable and practical. That was EXACTLY what I was looking for so I went along and joined. I dont get there as often as I would have liked but I'll renew my membership.

I think societies need to have members evening where you can just go along and chat as much as they need lectures.

One thing I dont think most societies do is much observing en-masse. In fairness its hard to organise and few societies have an obseravatory site.

I try and keep the AAS site up to date and relevant myself - the tech articles - keep a watch because I will be doing some more including vidoes of stuff.

[michaelmorris]

I joined Worcester Astro Soc about 9 years ago and have found that it transformed a passing interest into a hobby. It used to have a regular series of beginners talks every year along with many active observers. As with all groups such as this, there are good times and not so good times. Through not fault of anyone, about three or four years ago the organisation of the society seemed to slip a little with talks not being arranged a long time in advance and several long standing members leaving for a variety of reasons. Publicity slipped right off the horizon and membership fell from over 70 to under 40, with only a handful of active observers.

Last year I joined the committee determined to try to halt the decline. Thanks to the hard work of all the committee members we now stemmed the exodus, and have attracted many new members, most of whom are active observers. We run practical astronomer sessions on the third Thursday of the month with talks on practical subjects such as optics, choosing an using eyepieces, astronomical filters, finding your way around the night sky and solar observing.

I have never found the society particularly cliquey. although inevitably some people will tend to talk to certain people more than others people.

I love SGL (along with UKAI and Cloudy Nights) where everyone is incredibly helpful.

[Dave]

Oh, just to add.

Don't take things toooooo seriously. I try not to.

[steppenwolf]

Having been a member of clubs for other hobbies and not really enjoyed them because of the cliqueness that is so apparent in most of them, I always vowed that I would not join an astronomy club - that was until I was asked to take a 'committee position' in a new club just starting out. I declined to do this as current work and home commitments don't make it viable to commit to being on a committee but I did offer to give what support I could. What a good job (for me ) I did decide to give some support as I found myself in a really great club with a very different outlook to most other clubs. The Adur Astonomical Society has only been running for a few months but it is a breath of fresh air. Members can freely ask questions during 'presentations' which makes the whole meeting become a friendly discussion group with a gentle hand controlling the discussion whilst the presenter 'has the chair'.

A great club with a great future, well done Robin and Trevor for choosing to do things differently!

[centroid]

Well, thank you.

A lot more input, some very intersting reading, and its heartening to know that some local clubs out there, are catering for 'hobby astronomer', and doing it quite well it seems.

Conversely, others seem to have shared my own experiences.

I guess when it comes to what we want from the hobby, club or society, we have all different expectations, and must accept that there is much truth in the saying "you can please most of the people most of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time'.

Its clear for example, that 'eagleseye' find his membership of the SPA rewarding, whereas it offered little or nothing for me.

NickH made a valid point earlier, in that with club membership, you tend to get more out of it, if you put more into it. In my case, I did attempt to contribute, but felt like I was somewhat 'flogging a dead horse', when it came to stimulating some interest.

For me, this hobby' like all of my hobbies past and present, is pursued for enjoyment and not science. Having spent the last 20 years of my career in an R&D environment, I really don't want to continue that theme in retirement.

That doesn't mean to say that I have stopped trying to extend my knowledge, especially when it comes to astro imaging, and image processing. In fact I've often got my head buried in technical publications, but only because I enjoy it.

I will own up to taking one particular hobby very seriously, and that was when I used to race sailing dinghies (MartinB will relate to this one), and that was very competetive, with no quarter given .

Anyway, I digress. For me now, my astro clubs are the forums, and primarly SGL. Here, I can discuss technical issues, the weather, or just pass the time of day with a friendly bunch of like minded people.

This has now been extended to our Local Meet, now approaching it's fith meeting, and growing in numbers attending. Here, we can observe/image (cloud permitting), have one of us give a tutorial on a particular subject (e.g. image processing), or just chat over a cup of coffee and a doughnut.

All very relaxed, no committee, no constitution, and the ony rule that applies is common sense.

While the primary purpose of the forthcoming SGL star party, is imaging/observing from under relatively dark skies, under pinning this will be a friendly/social atmosphere. If this is your first time out with the SGL crowd, believe me, you will be made to feel very welcome, and make many new friends.

Dave

[Psychobilly]

I am indeed Jealous of the Audur Soc as it seems to be a "fun" Soc of like minded (SGL) individuals with a great mix of "skills"...

Bit of a long round trip to visit it though

A few years ago I was down that neck of the woods a couple of times a month on buisness and could have arranged work around the meetings...

Billy...

[RobertCL]

I've been to the Kielder Star Camp a few times now and the atmosphere there is always friendly and people are happy to chat. Usually because there are no stars to see due to cloud and rain so theres nothing much else to do! But thats almost irrelevant.

I'm about to attend the first Swindon Astro club meeting, so I hope everyone else going reads this thread and takes note of the do's and dont's