Maybe a new telescope...

[Dannomiss]

 Hi all,

Its been a while, but I'm still here 😁

I wonder if you can help. I bought a Sky-Watcher heritage 150p nearly a year ago and generally I've been pleased with it, however the most frustrating part of using it is because its telescopic to create the 750mm focal length it can become quite shaky. The dob stand is solid, but the scope itself wobbles like crazy. Combine that with the focuser which is really just terrible having to constantly use tape to help tighten the thread of the focuser up - it all just adds to the frustration of it all.

I have had some good views through the scope but its also not practical for going out and about unless I place the dob base on the floor.

I was thinking of replacing the scope but not sure with these that I have looked at below if i will still get frustrated and give up...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-eq3-2.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az5-deluxe.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-synscan-az-goto.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-starquest/sky-watcher-starquest-102mc-f127-maksutov-cassegrain-telescope.html

I can't drive, so in theory thr scope needs to be practical to carry I suspose, but I'm just frustrated all round with current scope.

Thanks all in advance

Edited February 6, 2021 by Dannomiss

[Ricochet]

Given that you have frustrations with both the telescope and mount, I think replacing the whole setup sounds like a reasonable plan. Personally, I think the most important consideration is that you have to carry the whole setup in one go. If it is too big/heavy/awkward then you will find yourself finding excuses not to use it. Based on that, I think I would immediately discount the 150/eq3 option, and any other equatorial mounted system so that you do not have to carry counterweights.

To me, the stand out option from the ones listed is the 127 Mak on the AZ5 mount. In terms of size the 127 seems to be the goldilocks size for Maksutovs, with the 102 not quite having a large enough aperture and the 150 being too heavy. There have also been a  fair few pictures on this forum of a 127 Mak and a mount head packed into a rucksack, which would be a good option for you as you have to carry the telescope to your observing location. With regards to the mount you choose for your 127 Mak, the thing that is great about the AZ5 (or the AZGti if you want a goto option), is that it uses a standard 3/8" photographic connection, which means that it fits on any decent photographic tripod. Photographic tripods are generally designed to be transportable, which for you is ideal. The tripod supplied with the mount is reportedly not great, and doesn't appear to be particularly compact, so I would recommend replacing it with a tripod from Manfrotto, or some other good quality manufacturer. Luckily, photographic tripods are quite common and so there is usually a good supply of them in the second hand market if there ins't enough left in your budget for a new one.

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

Do not bother with the EQ packages and even consider saving yourself a wedge and just buy an AZ5/AZ4 mount and steel tripod. The Heritage will sit nicely on that set up. There's others here do the same. Not great for travel without a car though and if you're really not getting on with the Heritage, then another avenue is required.

If you're considering going really light and travelling with your gear, again dont bother with EQ, or Synscan GoTo kits. All too heavy and cumbersome.

For a few quid more than an AZ5 kit, the AZGTI and Skymax 127 is a no brainer. Add another £50 for a power pack. Easily carried and once you get the hang of it, takes the faff out of finding targets and should track good enough for visual use for around 30 minutes before a key press is needed.

A caveat being, the AZGTI when slewing is a bit noisy for a public camp site. I leave mine at home (see below*) Great if wild camping or for astro camps though.

The lot could be carried in a 70L rucksack along with clothes and meals etc for one night. A friend could carry the tent. 😉 

The light weight tripod supplied with the AZ5, AZGTI etc fits into a rucksack, or strapped to the side of one. It's actually OK if used sitting on a camping chair with the tripod legs barely extended.*I take it along with an AZ5 and a Skymax 102 on camping trips. The AZ5 is a brick though, I've considered buying an AZ Pronto or similar lighter mount.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[Louis D]

39 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

The AZ5 is a brick though

At 5 pounds, it doesn't seem that bad.  My DSV-1 weighs just about the same, and I consider it fairly light weight.  My DSV-2B at 9 pounds feels considerably heavier.

I would agree that the 127 Maks are good for light weight, compact setups.  I've got one and I bought one for my daughter for her camping trips.  The scope and all the gear fit in a gym duffel bag.  The mount and tripod fit in a long tripod/light stand bag.

The Synta 127s are really only 118mm in clear aperture, so the OP might want to look at the Bresser/ES 127 which is supposed to accurately rated.  The advantage of the Synta Maks over the Bresser/ES Maks is that they show up regularly in the classifieds for $200 to $300, at least here in the US.

Here's @Geoff Lister's posting about putting an entire 127 Mak and goto mount into a backpack minus the tripod:

I've repeated the image below:

To reduce weight, but not sacrifice rigidity, the AZ5's tripod could be replaced with a carbon fiber photo tripod.  It would also dampen vibrations better than metal as well.

[Dannomiss]

3 hours ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

For a few quid more than an AZ5 kit, the AZGTI and Skymax 127 is a no brainer.

So it seems either of these :

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az5-deluxe.html

 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az5-deluxe.htmlhttps://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Dannomiss

[Dannomiss]

4 hours ago, Ricochet said:

To me, the stand out option from the ones listed is the 127 Mak on the AZ5 mount

This seems to be the winner. From portability and packing into a rucksack is now a must as i want to get out more and explore. 

I know that i am losing the 150mm aperture from the heritage but as I'm so frustrated with it, I'll end up not using it

[Dannomiss]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

At 5 pounds, it doesn't seem that bad.  My DSV-1 weighs just about the same, and I consider it fairly light weight.  My DSV-2B at 9 pounds feels considerably heavier.

I would agree that the 127 Maks are good for light weight, compact setups.  I've got one and I bought one for my daughter for her camping trips.  The scope and all the gear fit in a gym duffel bag.  The mount and tripod fit in a long tripod/light stand bag.

The Synta 127s are really only 118mm in clear aperture, so the OP might want to look at the Bresser/ES 127 which is supposed to accurately rated.  The advantage of the Synta Maks over the Bresser/ES Maks is that they show up regularly in the classifieds for $200 to $300, at least here in the US.

Here's @Geoff Lister's posting about putting an entire 127 Mak and goto mount into a backpack minus the tripod:

I've repeated the image below:

To reduce weight, but not sacrifice rigidity, the AZ5's tripod could be replaced with a carbon fiber photo tripod.  It would also dampen vibrations better than metal as well.

If the 127 Mak fits into a Ruck i would be over the moon as then i can carry the tripod and at least get out and about

[Neil H]

Hi you can get a back pack that will take a 250 scope they do them at 365 astronomy it's padded too I was looking at one for my 200 but mine 1200 long and the bag is for the shorter scope ,so if you still want big light bucket this bag will let you move easily

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

Just now, Dannomiss said:

This seems to be the winner. From portability and packing into a rucksack is now a must as i want to get out more and explore. 

I know that i am losing the 150mm aperture from the heritage but as I'm so frustrated with it, I'll end up not using it

Personally I'd go with the AZGTI for the extra few quid unless you're going camping on public camp sites, the budget is super tight or of course if you just prefer a manual mount. Despite its size and weight it is a powerful instrument. Also very handy in an urban environment for finding targets you may have difficulty with. 

Good luck with your choice. 🤞

[Dannomiss]

10 minutes ago, Neil H said:

Hi you can get a back pack that will take a 250 scope they do them at 365 astronomy it's padded too I was looking at one for my 200 but mine 1200 long and the bag is for the shorter scope ,so if you still want big light bucket this bag will let you move easily

Hi Neil you mean these? 

https://www.365astronomy.com/Lacerta-Padded-Carrying-Case-DeLuxe-for-150-750-Newtonian-Telescope.html

 

I suspose as i don't drive, I'll be walking or public transport, so something light and portable maybe better for me like the 127mm mak, but i suspose i sacrifice the large aperture of the heritage scope 

[Dannomiss]

8 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Personally I'd go with the AZGTI for the extra few quid unless you're going camping on public camp sites, the budget is super tight or of course if you just prefer a manual mount. Despite its size and weight it is a powerful instrument. Also very handy in an urban environment for finding targets you may have difficulty with. 

Good luck with your choice. 🤞

I think that's where I'm heading however out of stock 60-90 days currently. So I'll have to wait 😁

I know its hard to compare but how does the 127mm mak and 150p heritage compare on performance... The heritage is f5, so faster than the 127mm mak at f11... I know they are both different scopes, but for moon, planets, stars and maybe some nebulas would the 127mm mak be ok? In one sense if I'm not as frustrated with it I'll use it more ultimately 😊👍

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

Look at Leehore7's recent 127mm Skymax threads. He's having a hoot with his. I only have the 102 but it's a great little travel scope.

Comparing the 127 Mak to a 150/750 reflector.. probably not a great deal to split them. The 150mm reflector has a wider field of view and on fainter or large DSOs, may just edge it. Double stars, planets, planetary nebulae, globulars, tighter clusters and lunar, the 127 should perform admirably. The 102 certainly does considering its size.

Also (hopefully) no collimation worries.

 

 

[Tiny Clanger]

2 minutes ago, Dannomiss said:

I think that's where I'm heading however out of stock 60-90 days currently. So I'll have to wait 😁

I know its hard to compare but how does the 127mm mak and 150p heritage compare on performance... The heritage is f5, so faster than the 127mm mak at f11... I know they are both different scopes, but for moon, planets, stars and maybe some nebulas would the 127mm mak be ok? In one sense if I'm not as frustrated with it I'll use it more ultimately 😊👍

I own both the heritage  150 and the 127 mak on an az5, can't say I've ever found the 150 at all shaky, but I do place it on a purpose made very sturdy three legged table . The 127 mak is good for planets and the Moon, but as it has a focal length double that of the heritage, if you don't mount it well on a good tripod you will see plenty of shaking !

 I'd not personally want to carry either 'scope very far, the heritage is an awkward shape as you are aware, and weighs about 7kg  .  The 127 mak weighs 3.2 kg , an az5 is 2.3kg, I don't know about the skywatcher steel tripod you would want to have it on , I use a manfrotto tripod which weighs in at a little under 3kg, so I'd guess the steel tripod is similar. 8.5 kilos, plus a sturdy rucsac with a frame and/or padded back and hip  belt , another 1.5kg minimum. Torch, eyepieces in a case, sundry  accessories at least another half kilo.   That's 10.5 kilos,  rather heavier than my summer backpacking camping kit base weight  !

Unlike my tent , sleeping bag etc, the mak  is going to be less forgiving of being dropped, banged or slung onto the luggage platform of a 'bus , and will need the kit to be assembled when you arrive , presumably in the dark ...  Its a lot of faff , and I'd be worried it would just be too much trouble to do often.

If I was looking for a 'bus friendly , one evening at a time trip out 'hand luggage' solution (rather than, say , car based camping for a weekend)  , I'd go with a 102 mak (under 2kg) which can go on a lighter pronto mount, (the quoted weight for 102 + pronto + tripod 5.85 kg)  or it could even a photo tripod as shown on this site which has some good comparison photos of the 102 and 127 in their bags and on various mounts

http://www.waloszek.de/astro_sw_mak102_e.php   Then I'd spend the money saved on some decent 10x50 binoculars for wide field stuff !

[Dannomiss]

Wondering if it would be better to buy the 127mm mak separately at £265 which means i can use my current dob base from my heritage 150p...

... Then save for a better mount and tripod for £285 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-wifi-az-goto-mount-tripod.html

[Geoff Lister]

A mix and match selection ...

Each OTA will work with each mount, although some will have altitude limitations, and I limit the maximum slew rate on the Virtuoso mount if I fit the larger OTAs.

 

15 hours ago, Dannomiss said:

Then save for a better mount and tripod for £285 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-wifi-az-goto-mount-tripod.html

This mount uses WiFi, and is similar to my Celestron Cosmos 90's. I found it much easier to use a 'real' handset, with real, tactile, buttons, instead of the virtual buttons on my tablet's touchscreen, particularly when looking through the eyepiece for final alignment. Virtual buttons are fine when you are looking at the screen, and so have visual feedback; missing when you are looking through an eyepiece.

Geoff

[Tiny Clanger]

16 hours ago, Dannomiss said:

Wondering if it would be better to buy the 127mm mak separately at £265 which means i can use my current dob base from my heritage 150p...

... Then save for a better mount and tripod for £285 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-wifi-az-goto-mount-tripod.html

You said you found the view through the heritage shaky , which is down to the mount , putting a mak on it will magnify the shake and also you know that little stick/jump stiction thing you get when adjusting the az on the dob base unless you are careful ? That will be magnified too.

I'd suggest a better strategy would be to buy the mount and tripod first,  mount the heritage 150 on it and save for a new scope second  !

I'm a fan of hefty mounts, preferably way over rated for the weight you intend to put on them , hence me going for the az5, which is a big lump of aluminium and to reach its potential, needs a better tripod than the one packaged with it. However, your aim of portability on the 'bus means you need something easier and more convenient to schlep around.

I have no experience of the tripod/head package you linked to, but a couple of things I've read other folk on here comment are that the aluminum tripods some package deals include are a disappointment, many seek to upgrade asap, so it is a good thing that it comes with the heavier steel tripod. Also people report that running go to heads off AA cells (  that one needs 8 ) can be frustrating, so best factor in a suitable powerbank or pack a lot of backup AAs .

[Stu]

@Dannomiss it seems that getting a different scope may make sense for you, but I’m surprised you are having so many issues with the 150p. Do you have to constantly retape the focuser? I just did both my 130p and 150p once with PTFE tape pulled really tight, then worked the focuser in and out a couple of times and it is fine, very stable and easy to use. The truss is also not bad at all, is it fully extended and locked in place with the locking screws properly?

The base is not the most convenient I admit, so I use mine on a tripod mount which is much easier. These two images are a single frame and stacked short video of Mars last year, so it is a capable scope.

From the other comments, a 127mm Mak and AZ5 sound like they might be a great choice for you.

[Tiny Clanger]

24 minutes ago, Stu said:

@Dannomiss it seems that getting a different scope may make sense for you, but I’m surprised you are having so many issues with the 150p. Do you have to constantly retape the focuser? I just did both my 130p and 150p once with PTFE tape pulled really tight, then worked the focuser in and out a couple of times and it is fine, very stable and easy to use. The truss is also not bad at all, is it fully extended and locked in place with the locking screws properly?

Yep, my first attempt with ptfe tape on the heritage dob  I didn't pull it tight enough, and it got chewed up , second better try has lasted 5 months so far and no sign of any loose tape or focus tube wobble.  Also find the extension locks tight when the screws are tightened.

I've still not tried mine on the alt az mount though 🙂

[Ricochet]

18 hours ago, Dannomiss said:

Wondering if it would be better to buy the 127mm mak separately at £265 which means i can use my current dob base from my heritage 150p...

No. You have stated that needing to find something to raise the scope up is an issue, and a Newtonian has the eyepiece at the top. With a Mak the eyepiece is at the bottom so your problem will be even worse. 

18 hours ago, Dannomiss said:

Then save for a better mount and tripod for £285 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-wifi-az-goto-mount-tripod.html

Better than what? The dob base? I don't see that it can be better than the azgti, which looks smaller and easier to pack, and can have its carrying capacity/stability improved with a better tripod, whereas the star discovery tripod is not upgradeable.