EQ v AZ Mounts - Do you need an EQ mount if you're not going to take any pictures?

[John]

7 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

Exactly, why put an Aluminium tripod under an AZ5? Though I don't know if it's Skywatcher or FLO that are making that pairing. And to be fair to FLO, you can easily buy the AZ5 and they sell a separate steel tripod that would fit it. Didn't know you had the AZ5 Heather, I take it you're happy with it?

It will be Skywatcher's choice. I seem to recall that FLO were selling the AZ5 as just a mount head at one point but it is not listed that way now.

 

[Tiny Clanger]

12 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

Exactly, why put an Aluminium tripod under an AZ5? Though I don't know if it's Skywatcher or FLO that are making that pairing. And to be fair to FLO, you can easily buy the AZ5 and they sell a separate steel tripod that would fit it. Didn't know you had the AZ5 Heather, I take it you're happy with it?

Yep, it is a far heftier chunk of solid aluminium than the illustrations make it appear to be : that disc you see at the top with the skywatcher logo on is 6cm thick, and the two curvy arms which connect to it fix to opposite sides of it, which is not at all obvious in pictures. I don't have the stat. to  hand, but I was most surprised by the weight of the thing

[Tiny Clanger]

3 minutes ago, John said:

It will be Skywatcher's choice. I seem to recall that FLO were selling the AZ5 as just a mount head at one point but it is not listed that way now.

 

They still are, I bought just the az5, there's a drop down menu option for mount only or + the alu tripod .

Heather

[johninderby]

Yep it is still  available on it’s own from FLO.

[Tiny Clanger]

My thoughts when looking at the az mounts to pick one for the 127 mak were that I definitely wanted slo mo controls because of the maks small field of view,  so the az4 was not looking good, also I was happy to use my own tripod, so the bundled tripod (no option to not buy it) would be a wasted £100 or so. For a wider field instrument, and for someone who doesn't already have a suitable tripod it looks as if it would be a good sturdy+ option.

The 'pronto' does have slo mo, but the capacity is just 3kg , a bit too close to the mass of the 127 mak to make me confident in it as a stable base, and again, I think that mount is only available with the tripod , and in this case it is the alu. one.

So, for me, the choice was az5 , or nearly double the price for a sky tee ... az5 it was !

Heather

[Jasonb]

Yes, and the Sly Tee is one of those dual mounts.

So, £139 for the AZ5 and £109 for a steel tripod (both on FLO), compared to £169 for the AZ4 with a steel tripod. That's a bit of a price jump. Good job I'm not buying! 😀

[John]

53 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Yep, it is a far heftier chunk of solid aluminium than the illustrations make it appear to be : that disc you see at the top with the skywatcher logo on is 6cm thick, and the two curvy arms which connect to it fix to opposite sides of it, which is not at all obvious in pictures. I don't have the stat. to  hand, but I was most surprised by the weight of the thing

Yes, I had a play with one when it was first launched

 

[Tiny Clanger]

11 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

Yes, and the Sly Tee is one of those dual mounts.

So, £139 for the AZ5 and £109 for a steel tripod (both on FLO), compared to £169 for the AZ4 with a steel tripod. That's a bit of a price jump. Good job I'm not buying! 😀

You could keep a look out for something like a Manfrotto 55 series tripod  , or a 190 (slightly less carrying capacity, think that one is about 7kg from memory ) going cheap secondhand locally ... you only need the leg section, so may get a bargain as most photographers would rather buy one with a suitable photo head included in the deal. Bit of a perisher to box up and post, so local second hand shops, camera shops which take kit in part exchange,  or collection of local online deals might strike lucky.

Does your eq have a standard photo tripod screw ? If so, you could shift it to better tripod legs if any happened to become available, and think about an alt az if the eq still didn't work for you .

Heather

 

[Jasonb]

Thanks Heather, good advice, and something to keep an eye out for in case something pops up!

 

[banjaxed]

2 hours ago, Jasonb said:

That's interesting, I looked at both of those (of course, just looking, not buying!) and the AZ4 comes with a steel tripod and is listed with a payload capacity of 6.8Kg and the AZ5 comes with a Aluminium and a capacity of 5Kg. Seems weird the AZ5 is 'worse' than the AZ4?

 

I omitted to say that I used the Skywatcher 3/8” stainless steel tripod on both mounts which increases the load from 5 kg to 9 kg for the AZ5.

[Jasonb]

Cool, thanks Banjaxed. Whatever I upgrade to, whenever I upgrade, it won't be a aluminium tripod.

[banjaxed]

1 minute ago, Jasonb said:

Cool, thanks Banjaxed. Whatever I upgrade to, whenever I upgrade, it won't be a aluminium tripod.

Sorry I wasn’t more specific with my explanation. When I first bought the AZ4 it was just the mount which I tried on an AZ3 tripod and was very under impressed with the stability. I contacted FLO who assured me that the 3/8” stainless steel tripod would be much better which proved to be the case, I am now very happy with my present set up and would recommend it.

[Stu1smartcookie]

14 hours ago, Jasonb said:

That said, if you had an AZ5 and put it on a steel tripod, I'd expect its capacity to increase.

As Heather said , the payload for an AZ5 on a steel tripod is a max 9kgs ... i have used it to its fullest capacity (not always adviseable ) and it worked well ... The AZ5 has two settings to adjust the angle of the mount which also helps . I think , once you have one of these you are sorted ... until you fancy a skytee 2 , that is

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

13 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Exactly, why put an Aluminium tripod under an AZ5? Though I don't know if it's Skywatcher or FLO that are making that pairing. And to be fair to FLO, you can easily buy the AZ5 and they sell a separate steel tripod that would fit it. Didn't know you had the AZ5 Heather, I take it you're happy with it?

You can also buy an adapter which allows connection to an EQ5 mount , which is what i did .

[Tiny Clanger]

16 hours ago, Jasonb said:

Cool, thanks Banjaxed. Whatever I upgrade to, whenever I upgrade, it won't be a aluminium tripod.

If the only tripods you consider are the skywatcher ones, I think that's the best plan.

However, even big strong portable photo tripods are usually aluminium ( weight and corrosion factors are big for these things which get carted around and used with their feet in wet places ) . There's the inevitable trade off between sturdiness (big & thick  diameter tubes) and portability (light weight) .

Studio photography with big cameras more often uses a smaller foot print camera stand from a specialist manufacturer like Cambo or Linhof . These are an extremely heavy base plate with a metal column, bit like a 'scope pier but moveable ( the company I worked for had one, it had locking wheels on the base, which was a good thing as I couldn't lift the thing even slightly to move it) I've never priced a studio stand, but I bet they run into the thousands of ££s   Photo tripods are the portable end of the market,

I've never owned or used a carbon fibre tripod, but suspect (having sat bored on the fringes of a few heated debates on the relative merits of bike frame materials) that the stiffness and vibration damping properties of the stuff might make it a tripod material almost as good as wood  😀 If the premium bonds come up I'll drop a £k+ on a top of the range carbon fibre gitzo and half that on one of those nice looking Berlebach wooden jobs, and do a comparison ...

[Jasonb]

Sounds like a plan Heather!

I should have been clearer, I was specifically talking about Skywatcher level tripods, and at that level I'd be looking at Steel whenever I upgrade!

 

[Jasonb]

Just to resurrect a relatively old thread, something occurred to me. Why do EQ mounts have counter weights and AZ mounts don't, or is that an accurate statement?

Also, reading back over this thread, £139 for the AZ5 and £109 for the tripod has changed in the last three weeks, they're £175 and £129 now!

I've spent a bit of time looking at tripods and mounts, and man it'd be a lot easier if they actually all fit each other!

[Stu1smartcookie]

I was lucky enough to to buy an AZ5 mount head for the lower price , literally a week later they went up by £40 !! As for counter weights , well I really don’t throw the technical answer but if you’ve experienced a heavy scope on an EQ mount and swung it around to an awkward angle then let it go without a weight .. wow ! Not good ! I suppose with an az you don’t end up in those awkward scenarios.. it’s up down left right and so as long as the scope is balanced on the mount then it doesn’t need the weights .. maybe the mount acts as the counter weight in the case of Alt-Az mounts . As I said I really don’t know the answer , just giving my opinion ( which I expect to be shot down lol 😂but I am here to learn as well so feel free ) 

[Louis D]

On 20/02/2021 at 17:06, Jasonb said:

Why do EQ mounts have counter weights and AZ mounts don't, or is that an accurate statement?

Most GEM EQ mounts don't have the ability to overcome the weight imbalance without counterweights.  There are some harmonic drives that don't need counterweights up to a certain point.  They employ a drive technology similar to some assembly line robots, and you never see counterweights on them.  Some direct drive EQ mounts are also able to handle imbalance as well.

As long as an alt-az mount is level and the entire load is well within the footprint of the tripod, counterweights are generally unnecessary.  However, if you set up one tilted, as on a slope, the azimuth axis will swing around by itself until the load is at the lowest point.  If it was properly counterweighted, this wouldn't happen.  However, it would weigh a lot more and be much less portable to dodge obstructions such as buildings, trees, and shrubbery.

[Louis D]

On 02/02/2021 at 13:41, Tiny Clanger said:

You could keep a look out for something like a Manfrotto 55 series tripod  , or a 190 (slightly less carrying capacity, think that one is about 7kg from memory ) going cheap secondhand locally ... you only need the leg section, so may get a bargain as most photographers would rather buy one with a suitable photo head included in the deal.

I use Bogen 3036 tripods under my alt-az heads.  They are now known as Manfrotto 475B and are much more expensive.  Used Bogen 3036 tripods with heads can be had for under $150 shipped within the US.  They are super sturdy in my experience.  It might be worth checking around for them.  The Manfrotto 058B (Bogen 3051) is basically the same with different leg locks and can be had used for under $200 as well.  I like the variable angles for the legs so I can set the height and level without extending the legs.  The extendable center column is also handy for use with refractors when moving from zenith to lower altitude objects.

[AlexK]

Just my 2 cents.

For any classic design Newtonian reflector, like the OP's 130P, the best mount for visual observations enjoyment is the classic Dobson stool.

Contrary to the common confusion, caused by China engineers "genius" in the recent years, the "Dobson mount" is not a cheap wooden Alt-Azimuth mount (many are proudly calling even flymsy particle board Alt-Azimuth semi-forks "Dobs" officially on their shopping pages), it's an ingenious fine tuned "Gravitational Stasis Telescope Stand". Only the general physics it is based upon dictates its orientation in space reconfiguration flow remotely resembling the Alt-Azimuth mounts operation.

It's not exactly a joke, folks. The true Dobson, contrary to most other manually operated Alt-Az/GEM/EQF/HorseShoe/"Fake Dobs", does not need ANY manually operated axial brakes. Ever.

Edited February 25, 2021 by AlexK

[Jasonb]

Thanks for your replies.

I've found a used tripod online which is easily going to meet my needs (check out the Postman thread for pictures!) and I have a (barely) used AZ5 on its way, so I'm slowly but surely (actually, quite quickly) upgrading my setup to a far more stable tripod and mount. Now I just need to get out and use it!

[Stu1smartcookie]

51 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

I have a (barely) used AZ5 on its way,

You will love that AZ5 . 

[Jasonb]

36 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

You will love that AZ5 . 

I will if I can get it to connect to the tripod!

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

19 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

I will if I can get it to connect to the tripod

It will connect if its a 3/8" thread .