Bored and plotting upgrades

[wibblefish]

My works internet is out so I am bored and browsing FLO to plot some upgrades for the next few months / year  

Telescope is a skywatcher 90/660 (f7.3) short tube refractor on an AZ pronto (aluminum) mount. I am observing from bortle 4 so my app claims though there seems a lot of light source pollution in several directions from street lights + neighbours windows and security lights + my neighbour is now cutting down all their big trees which were providing some additional darkness. I am fairly new to the whole astronomy thing but loving it so far, I have been having a go at different types of observations even where I know the telescope is not as suitable (i.e. faint DSO, splitting doubles) but its fun to try 

As I am not planning on getting another telescope for a long while I am trying to work out what (if anything) mechanically I could add / change would make a difference to maximize what I can do, so far I have added:

- BST short x2 barlow, seems good and sharp but I cannot focus it if I add filters (run out of focuser length), I can add the filter directly to the diagonal but that doesn't seem like a great idea to be swapping things in and out of the diagonal during sessions. Can always wave the filter over the EP at worst  

- BST Starguider 25mm, 18mm, 12mm, these are a great improvement over the stock 25/10

My wish list thus far is:

- RACI 6x30 + Rigel Quikfinder, I made a whole thread on this but effectively it would replace my super bright cheap RDF and binocular combo I am using currently to try and locate targets through the murk at times

- BST Starguider 8mm, this would give me probably the last useful EP for high mag (+ barlow) stuff like double splitting etc.

- Di-electric stardiagonal, my current is a plasticky job that seems to work itself loose every so often plus it can be a pain to unscrew to get the BST EP out at times (and its marking their barrels but I guess its not doing any real damage)

- Steel tripod, my current tripod while super light tends to experience a lot of shake at high magnification (so 12mm + barlow primarily) but seems steady otherwise but I imagine replacing it with something more sturdy would help to a degree

- Filters, not really sure if they are super worthwhile, I have an ND one for the moon which is very useful and I guess something that might help reduce CA halos on brighter objects maybe but I am not sure wether it would make much difference

- Camera mounting kit, I have a m43 dslr so that might be a fun new dimension at some point though the telescope + camera + mount are not ideal for anything serious

- Focuser upgrade, I think there is a Skywatcher duel speed focuser but I am not entirely sure if its compatible

 

Anyhoo, if anyone cares to venture any opinions on what to prioritize, anything I may have missed or whether or not to bother with some / all the items / bother upgrading anything feel free   

Edited January 26, 2021 by wibblefish

[domstar]

I was in a similar position a few years ago. I upgraded the eyepieces to plossls, which was good, but in the end I got a new telescope. That's what you will do eventually if you are sure this is the hobby for you- everybody does . We all brows when there are clouds in the sky. I think you should start to think about what new scope will compliment your current one. 

As for your upgrades- the diagonal (I also thought about it). Just take out the diagonal and look straight through. I was surprised about how little improvement I had without the diagonal. That's why I think there is little to be gained in upgrading yet. As for a new focuser- it's too much money to spend on your scope.  I eventually bought a UHC filter and I was also surprised by how subtle the improvement was. I have since come appreciate it but often I don't know if the views are better with or without it.

Sorry to be negative. I'm only replying because I wanted to slowly improve my (inferior to yours) original scope. If you are bored, start dreaming of a new scope, whatever that may be.

Good luck, I hope you continue to enjoy yourself.

[KP82]

For a fast achro, don't bother with high mag. 12mm BST with a 2x barlow is about as high as your scope can take. You could try the Baader semi-apo filter on the Moon and planets to offset some of the CA at high mag.

A more stable mount will be the best investment you can do now. A better quality finder could also be quite useful. A better diagonal could be a good investment if you plan to upgrade to another refractor in the future. It will be completely useless if your next scope is going to be a big dob unless there is something seriously wrong with your existing one and you need a replacement.

[wibblefish]

Thanks both.

Yeah I figured on either the finders or tripod next. I likely will go for the finders since its my biggest annoyance at present.

I don’t intend to get another telescope any time soon but I did go and have a nosey around but alas I find myself split between ideas either a 127 Mak for high mag stuff or an 8” Dob for more light gathering. Guess I will see how my observing develops over the next year or so. 
 

Works internet better come back on soon or life is going to get expensive looking at all the toys I dont need 😎

Edited January 26, 2021 by wibblefish

[Louis D]

8 hours ago, wibblefish said:

Steel tripod, my current tripod while super light tends to experience a lot of shake at high magnification (so 12mm + barlow primarily) but seems steady otherwise but I imagine replacing it with something more sturdy would help to a degree

Get some anti-vibration pads.  I made my own from Sorbothane from ebay.  Especially with a rigid metal tripod and mount, they knocked vibrations down from 3 seconds to 1/2 second for me.  A wooden tripod is another good alternative.

[wibblefish]

3 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Get some anti-vibration pads.  I made my own from Sorbothane from ebay.  Especially with a rigid metal tripod and mount, they knocked vibrations down from 3 seconds to 1/2 second for me.  A wooden tripod is another good alternative.

Interesting, I do most observing on the grass so I didnt think of pads. Will look into it thanks!

[Louis D]

41 minutes ago, wibblefish said:

Interesting, I do most observing on the grass so I didnt think of pads. Will look into it thanks!

The effect will be more muted, depending on the hardness of your soil.  I observe from a small concrete pad.

[Tiny Clanger]

9 hours ago, wibblefish said:

My works internet is out so I am bored and browsing FLO to plot some upgrades for the next few months / year  

Telescope is a skywatcher 90/660 (f7.3) short tube refractor on an AZ pronto (aluminum) mount. I am observing from bortle 4 so my app claims though there seems a lot of light source pollution in several directions from street lights + neighbours windows and security lights + my neighbour is now cutting down all their big trees which were providing some additional darkness. I am fairly new to the whole astronomy thing but loving it so far, I have been having a go at different types of observations even where I know the telescope is not as suitable (i.e. faint DSO, splitting doubles) but its fun to try 

As I am not planning on getting another telescope for a long while I am trying to work out what (if anything) mechanically I could add / change would make a difference to maximize what I can do, so far I have added:

- BST short x2 barlow, seems good and sharp but I cannot focus it if I add filters (run out of focuser length), I can add the filter directly to the diagonal but that doesn't seem like a great idea to be swapping things in and out of the diagonal during sessions. Can always wave the filter over the EP at worst  

- BST Starguider 25mm, 18mm, 12mm, these are a great improvement over the stock 25/10

My wish list thus far is:

- RACI 6x30 + Rigel Quikfinder, I made a whole thread on this but effectively it would replace my super bright cheap RDF and binocular combo I am using currently to try and locate targets through the murk at times

- BST Starguider 8mm, this would give me probably the last useful EP for high mag (+ barlow) stuff like double splitting etc.

- Di-electric stardiagonal, my current is a plasticky job that seems to work itself loose every so often plus it can be a pain to unscrew to get the BST EP out at times (and its marking their barrels but I guess its not doing any real damage)

- Steel tripod, my current tripod while super light tends to experience a lot of shake at high magnification (so 12mm + barlow primarily) but seems steady otherwise but I imagine replacing it with something more sturdy would help to a degree

- Filters, not really sure if they are super worthwhile, I have an ND one for the moon which is very useful and I guess something that might help reduce CA halos on brighter objects maybe but I am not sure wether it would make much difference

- Camera mounting kit, I have a m43 dslr so that might be a fun new dimension at some point though the telescope + camera + mount are not ideal for anything serious

- Focuser upgrade, I think there is a Skywatcher duel speed focuser but I am not entirely sure if its compatible

 

Anyhoo, if anyone cares to venture any opinions on what to prioritize, anything I may have missed or whether or not to bother with some / all the items / bother upgrading anything feel free   

Cloudy weather is expensive isn't it ? The mind turns to buying stuff to use when eventually those clouds clear ...

As you know from past posts, I've done the RDF annoyance thing and spent some cash on a RACI and a Rigel Q.F.  The Rigel is great for lining up actual visible things, and it has rings (half degree and 2 degrees) similar to the telrad (by the way, you can change to those sizes of ring in stellarium's telrad overlay ) which is handy for star hopping but the RACI was my first buy, and it is a great help for feint stuff as well as so much easier to look through on a reflector. Depends what you want to find, having both is good, but if I had to choose just one to supplement an existing RDF it would be a RACI,

I'm  reluctant to suggest anything much about eyepieces because I really don't  know what works well in refractors (except of course that the best eyepiece is always somewhere above all but the richest individual's budget) but I wonder if you might go for a low magnification one than the stock 25mm  , try the FLO eyepiece view simulator thing (another great way to while away some work time) and check out what would be reasonably cheap and give a wider view .

I was lucky enough to score a second hand star diagonal for the mak, like you I thought the stock one a flimsy insecure horror, and had added a skywatcher  or stella mira £69 one ( they seem identical) to my wishlist to buy eventually  ... then a second hand one came up .... Much nicer made, and far more solid and secure . I've not compared the original & replacement visually as just the physical improvement is enough to convince me it's a good 'un.

A heavier, stronger, tripod is always a good idea . I was lucky to already own an old but good photo one (Manfrotto 55) with an 11 kg rating , so had enough money to get an az5 mount to put on it, possibly expensive overkill for a 127 mak , but if I'd the cash I would have gone even bigger & stronger for a sky tee ... Back before electronically stabilized  lenses were invented it was a photographer's rule that a cheap camera on an expensive tripod would  beat an expensive camera on a cheap tripod  , and it seems I've rolled that belief over to astro kit !

This fantasy shopping lark is fun, as long as you keep the credit card locked safely away ... 🙂

Heather

 

 

[wibblefish]

17 minutes ago, Louis D said:

The effect will be more muted, depending on the hardness of your soil.  I observe from a small concrete pad.

No hardness in the soil atm sometimes things sink 🙈

[Tiny Clanger]

9 minutes ago, wibblefish said:

No hardness in the soil atm sometimes things sink 🙈

Make it some snowshoes maybe ?

[Louis D]

58 minutes ago, wibblefish said:

No hardness in the soil atm sometimes things sink 🙈

Try putting a discarded lid of some sort under each tripod foot.  I've found lids from orange juice bottles flipped over work great.  I just don't know if they sell OJ over there in similar bottles.  You can even put a bit of Sorbothane in the center (under the tripod foot) to absorb vibrations to make your own vibration suppression pads.  The bright orange ones are easier to find in the dark.

[wibblefish]

10 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Cloudy weather is expensive isn't it ? The mind turns to buying stuff to use when eventually those clouds clear ...

As you know from past posts, I've done the RDF annoyance thing and spent some cash on a RACI and a Rigel Q.F.  The Rigel is great for lining up actual visible things, and it has rings (half degree and 2 degrees) similar to the telrad (by the way, you can change to those sizes of ring in stellarium's telrad overlay ) which is handy for star hopping but the RACI was my first buy, and it is a great help for feint stuff as well as so much easier to look through on a reflector. Depends what you want to find, having both is good, but if I had to choose just one to supplement an existing RDF it would be a RACI,

I'm  reluctant to suggest anything much about eyepieces because I really don't  know what works well in refractors (except of course that the best eyepiece is always somewhere above all but the richest individual's budget) but I wonder if you might go for a low magnification one than the stock 25mm  , try the FLO eyepiece view simulator thing (another great way to while away some work time) and check out what would be reasonably cheap and give a wider view .

I was lucky enough to score a second hand star diagonal for the mak, like you I thought the stock one a flimsy insecure horror, and had added a skywatcher  or stella mira £69 one ( they seem identical) to my wishlist to buy eventually  ... then a second hand one came up .... Much nicer made, and far more solid and secure . I've not compared the original & replacement visually as just the physical improvement is enough to convince me it's a good 'un.

A heavier, stronger, tripod is always a good idea . I was lucky to already own an old but good photo one (Manfrotto 55) with an 11 kg rating , so had enough money to get an az5 mount to put on it, possibly expensive overkill for a 127 mak , but if I'd the cash I would have gone even bigger & stronger for a sky tee ... Back before electronically stabilized  lenses were invented it was a photographer's rule that a cheap camera on an expensive tripod would  beat an expensive camera on a cheap tripod  , and it seems I've rolled that belief over to astro kit !

This fantasy shopping lark is fun, as long as you keep the credit card locked safely away ... 🙂

Heather

 

 

Yeah I think finders solve my immediate issues is the way to go. I might have a browse for second hand photog tripodsI hadnt realised they could take mount heads but I guess its just a pin type system.

[Tiny Clanger]

4 hours ago, wibblefish said:

Yeah I think finders solve my immediate issues is the way to go. I might have a browse for second hand photog tripodsI hadnt realised they could take mount heads but I guess its just a pin type system.

Most photo tripods (all the good quality , reasonably strong ones ) have a 3/8-16 screw ( bigger than the one that goes from the tripod head to the actual camera , which is 1/4-20  (see, this is why I can't remember what my own mobile 'phone number is, my brain is too cluttered with irrelevant oddments ) . By some miracle of 'not doing things differently just for the sake of it and to make you buy the one brand stuff' many 'scope mounts use the same 3/8-16 to connect head the tripod, certainly all the alt az ones I looked at for the little mak did, but I bet the more exotic stuff for far heavier kit probably has a different, stronger connection.

The circular plate at the top of my tripod which the screw protrudes from, and the 'scope mount sits on, is smaller in diameter than the very wide base of the az5, but it is secure and does not wobble .

Back 3 or 4 decades when I was very involved in photography, the most commonly used , highly respected makes of portable but quite heavy duty pro tripod were both Italian, Manfrotto and Gitzo - it was a division of loyalties a bit like android vs apple , but with no internet back then, more polite . Not sure if Gitzo is still around , but Manfrotto is still cranking out an updated model of my 55 at a price not much more than the steel skywatcher one. Other old but decent brands worth checking for include Cullmann, Slik and Benro , altho'I think  the Benro name got bought out so more recent Benro models I'd not be confident of without checking.

The great thing about Manfrotto is that you can buy spares off them should you drop/lose/break any bits , even for some quite old models, so if you found a Manfrotto tripod (without a head) going cheap second hand with, say, a missing screw in one leg clamp , as long as you know the precise model you can price the part online and see if the thing is worth buying and restoring to use.

Heather

 

[John]

I think upgrades / improvements to aid finding things are the best way to go. Being able to increase the "repertoire" of targets will keep your interest as the seasons progress and such upgrades can simply include more research and practice which don't cost anything at all 

As well as finders (which you are already thinking about) star charts, software, apps and on-line resources are all worth exploring.

 

[Tiny Clanger]

10 minutes ago, John said:

I think upgrades / improvements to aid finding things are the best way to go. Being able to increase the "repertoire" of targets will keep your interest as the seasons progress and such upgrades can simply include more research and practice which don't cost anything at all 

As well as finders (which you are already thinking about) star charts, software, apps and on-line resources are all worth exploring.

 

Which reminds me of a very cost effective upgrade I made to my object finding ability (which is pants BTW, and needs all the help it can get ...) One of the little electronic levels that cost around £10 from the far east - there are hundreds on offer via Amaz.  Tiny box, 2 AAA cells , surprisingly accurate, magnetic base . I've set stellarium to tell me the az/alt of an object I click on, and plonk the level on the 'scope tube (the dob is magnetic, the mak isn't, so the level gets balanced in front of the RACI on that ) turn the level on, am dazzled by the bright green display , tilt the tube to the required angle, and (in this cold weather) whip the thing off and stick it in my jacket  pocket to keep the AAAs warm. It's increased my chances of finding feint stuff by having one dimension sorted very effectively.

I'm waiting for local printshops (and friends offices)  to be back at work to get an az circle printed and laminated for the dob base , but while that is a dob sort of thing, the little level (sometimes referred to online as a 'wixey' ) would work for any 'scope.

I'm trying to get in in the habit of closing my 'viewing eye' and using the other one only to look at the level's display, but I keep forgetting or start sniggering at myself winking madly in the dark ....

Heather

[Alan64]

Just a few decades, and longer ago, quite a few telescope kits came with wooden tripods, even those kits that were small and inexpensive...

That's my very first telescope, a 60mm achromat, and in direst need of restoration.

Wood dampens vibrations better than aluminum, and perhaps steel as well.  But in this day and age, after our seemingly having been jettisoned into the future, wood is out, and aluminum and steel are in.  It seems as though wood for these kits has become scarcer, therefore more costly; or, its omission in the interest of conservation.  I don't need a whole tree for my wooden tripods...

Before I had rediscovered and restored the wooden legs for the tripod on the left, I had been considering cobbling together a larger wooden tripod, and from a surveyor's tripod; new or used, no matter, as long as they were of wood...

A bit of DIY work, yes, yet worth the effort in my opinion.  Newer surveyors' tripods also come with legs of fibreglass, and that can be preferable over aluminum and steel as well.

[johninderby]

Gitzo is certainly still around although more upmarket than Manfrotto now. Some lovely gear but ££££££££

https://www.gitzo.com/uk-en/

[aderyn]

19 minutes ago, Alan64 said:

....from a surveyor's tripod...

Just this morning, while we were levelling up for  a new shed (sadly, not an obsy) I realised there was a very sturdy old wooden tripod right in front of me. Husband not enthused for some reason, when I suggested it could do very nicely for astro purposes. Maybe a cunning plan to put a solar scope on it for him might help the cause. (He's offered to buy me a rain gauge 🙄)

[Alan64]

1 hour ago, aderyn said:

Just this morning, while we were levelling up for  a new shed (sadly, not an obsy) I realised there was a very sturdy old wooden tripod right in front of me. Husband not enthused for some reason, when I suggested it could do very nicely for astro purposes. Maybe a cunning plan to put a solar scope on it for him might help the cause. (He's offered to buy me a rain gauge 🙄)

Oh, how lovely, a rain-gauge, however what a dreadful portent.

[DaveL59]

I recently bought an old wood tripod with the boss/collar that would've been for a vintage 60mm tube. Being that was far too small for the vintage scope I hoped to use it for, I removed the legs and fitted them in place of the metal ones on the cheapie Celestron LT70AZ starsense scope. Transformed the stability and while the Celestron yoke mount isn't great just the legs makes the whole assembly far less wobbly and also settles much faster too. 

The legs will need some minor restoration doing but it was a lucky find on the bay and I figure well worth it 🙂 

I had been considering surveyor tripods, but they tend to be £50-60 and up here plus shipping and would need some thought on adaptation unless the legs can be directly swapped over. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by DaveL59

[wibblefish]

Apologies for not replying but I have now caught up, thanks for the replies all.

Very interesting to see about the tripods my father in law usually enjoys a good diy project so maybe I'll set him to making a wooden one during the summer

I think I will go down the finders route initially though annoyingly I can't order a 6x30 RACI from FLO (they only have the RA) but I cant order a Rigel from elsewhere ... double shipping from two different companies  Thats an interesting idea @Tiny Clanger I might have to look into one of those as marrying up the angles to the phone app can sometimes be a pain, maybe some sort of plastic over the display to dim it down might be an easy mod  

 

 

[Tiny Clanger]

5 hours ago, wibblefish said:

Apologies for not replying but I have now caught up, thanks for the replies all.

Very interesting to see about the tripods my father in law usually enjoys a good diy project so maybe I'll set him to making a wooden one during the summer

 

You could let your father in law loose on this https://www.eyesonthesky.com/tutorials/1x3-tripod/

or check the other tripod on that site which is heftier and intended to have a platform on top for a tabletop 'scope to fit on . I bet there are plenty of other wood tripod plans around on the www

I know back when I was doing a lot of reading around the  whole 'what to buy' topic I saw some tripods made of metal plumbing pipe parts if you want some weird modern art parked in the garden ... I didn't save those links ...

Heather

[Tiny Clanger]

7 hours ago, wibblefish said:

Apologies for not replying but I have now caught up, thanks for the replies all.

Very interesting to see about the tripods my father in law usually enjoys a good diy project so maybe I'll set him to making a wooden one during the summer

I think I will go down the finders route initially though annoyingly I can't order a 6x30 RACI from FLO (they only have the RA) but I cant order a Rigel from elsewhere ... double shipping from two different companies  Thats an interesting idea @Tiny Clanger I might have to look into one of those as marrying up the angles to the phone app can sometimes be a pain, maybe some sort of plastic over the display to dim it down might be an easy mod  

 

 

The display when backlit is a very bright and vivid green, but you don't  have to have the backlight switched on, my intention is to look at the not-lit-up led display with my red torch.   However, I keep accidentally fumbling the button which lights up the display by accident when I switch the thing on.

Ideally I should switch it on indoors and then leave it turned on through the session, but it has an auto off , battery saving 'facility' after about five minutes. The instructions might include a way to disable auto off, but they are of the comedy google translate type, so it's hard to tell. 🙂  Think I'll add a little bit of glow in the dark tape by the 'on' button and see if that helps.