Used a plate solving website for the first time, its cool!

[gaz81]

After another not so successful night... well, apart from getting quicker at polar alignment etc..

Had some issues with star alignment... think that was more due to using a UHC filer that made the stars harder to spot?

Got focused up with the old mask....

Then slewed to my target, the North American Nebula.

Did a test exposure.. couldn't see much, but thought it was probably due to needing more stacked exposures (still learning 🙂  )

So, set APT off... came back later and did a quick stack to see... and nothing 😞   

Anyway, was a work night so packed up for the night.

Then remembered people on here talking about sites you can upload the image and it will tell you where it is in the sky, so gave it a go.

The rectangle was where my scope was pointed... and the nebula was above... oh well.  Least it was cool to see these amazing sites and what they can do!

 

[tomato]

Yes, first time you see it solve it is pretty cool, especially when I think back to the 80’s when I used to squint through an eye-piece and pore over star charts, trying to establish if the scope was pointing at the DSO or more usually, a degree or two off target.

[endless-sky]

The first few times I used plate solving I considered it sort of miraculous as well. Then you get used to it and actually get mad when it doesn't work, but that's another story... 😅

You can actually link plate solving directly to AstroPhotography Tool, so that it can plate solve immediately and help you figure out by how much you are off your target. Another beautiful feature is that it will keep solving and slewing repeatedly until it's pretty much centered dead on your target RA/DEC coordinates.

Take a look here on how to integrate plate solving into APT, if you are interested: Point Craft and Plate-Solving

[gaz81]

Yeah, did have a quick look at that yesterday. 
 

Will have to take a proper look, challenge (or maybe it isn’t) is that I connect the laptop to the mounts Wi-fi. 
 

So the imaging laptop isn’t connected to the internet. 

[bottletopburly]

You  may find this helpful https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/334568-setting-up-platesolving-in-astrophotography-tool-apt/

I would highly recommend platesolving in Apt and use Astap option to platesolve  takes seconds much faster than other solver I have used .

[gaz81]

Thanks all! 

[edarter]

I waited far too long to ditch the handset and start with platesolving. Once you've tried it though you never go back! Lifes too short lol

[endless-sky]

1 hour ago, edarter said:

I waited far too long to ditch the handset and start with platesolving. Once you've tried it though you never go back! Lifes too short lol

Once I learnt about the dark magic art of plate solving, the handcontroller has been safely resting inside a drawer and won't see the light - or rather, the night sky darkness - any time soon...

[gaz81]

I just finished doing the set up in APT... such a good tutorial.

Thank you!

Also did the extra bit that been added to APT since (ASTAP)

Tested some older images, solved in a few seconds... just need a clear night to try it while APT is actually hooked up to my AZ GTI (EQ).  APT can already talk to it, so should be good there. 

So in effect now....

1. Polar align

2. GoTo a target via the APT object list

3. Take an image

4. Plate solve

5. Sync those coordinates back to the mount? 

6. GoTo again and repeat the sync

7. Then... image away

 

Does that about cover the process?

Edited October 14, 2020 by gaz81

[gaz81]

one quick question... 

I also played with the Object Calculator... so seems pretty useful, has your camera, scope folcal length then you pick and object and it gives you an idea of the size

However the CCD pixel and CCD Width x Height seem wrong

The sensor in the 100D is bigger than the 6.7mm x 5.3mm the Object Calculator says... or does this mean something else?

.... camera wasn't connected at the time... 

Edited October 14, 2020 by gaz81

[bottletopburly]

6 hours ago, gaz81 said:

one quick question... 

I also played with the Object Calculator... so seems pretty useful, has your camera, scope folcal length then you pick and object and it gives you an idea of the size

However the CCD pixel and CCD Width x Height seem wrong

The sensor in the 100D is bigger than the 6.7mm x 5.3mm the Object Calculator says... or does this mean something else?

.... camera wasn't connected at the time... 

I wouldn’t worry camera needs connection  then you will find all is well , I pa first then take an image say 5 sec using shoot button setting iso at 1600  , blind solve from home position, some say not to and move scope to another part of sky , I never really had a problem personally, sync mount then use the objects via go to++ making sure the sync coordinates are in the re/dec box on go to++ before choosing your target then choose target and  watch the magic happen , platesolving is magic go to++ is  even better it leaves target on the centre and if you need to move centre to suit use the aim button then you can save those coordinates as a custom target for net time .

Edited October 15, 2020 by bottletopburly

[Aramcheck]

9 hours ago, gaz81 said:

I just finished doing the set up in APT... such a good tutorial.

Thank you!

Also did the extra bit that been added to APT since (ASTAP)

Tested some older images, solved in a few seconds... just need a clear night to try it while APT is actually hooked up to my AZ GTI (EQ).  APT can already talk to it, so should be good there. 

So in effect now....

1. Polar align

2. GoTo a target via the APT object list

3. Take an image

4. Plate solve

5. Sync those coordinates back to the mount? 

6. GoTo again and repeat the sync

7. Then... image away

 

Does that about cover the process?

Pretty much - except, worth checking out the focusing with a Bahtinov mask & using APT's 'Bahtinov Aid' under the 'Tools' menu.

So:-

1. Polar Align
2. Rough focus, then GoTo bright named star
3. Take short 10-15 sec exposure
4. Click 'PointCraft', select bright named star; Plate Solve; Sync co-ordinates; then pick named object in the 'Center FOV at position' & click "GoTo++". APT will then precisely centre the target in the centre of FOV, through a series of exposures & mount corrections.
5. Switch to LiveView & fit Bahtinov Mask + use Bahtinov Aid to refine focus.
6. Select Target from list (or custom list) + GoTo
7. Repeat 'PointCraft' to position target in centre of FOV using GoTo++.
8. Start guiding / imaging plan.

Cheers
Ivor
 

[endless-sky]

10 hours ago, gaz81 said:

I also played with the Object Calculator... so seems pretty useful, has your camera, scope folcal length then you pick and object and it gives you an idea of the size

However the CCD pixel and CCD Width x Height seem wrong

The sensor in the 100D is bigger than the 6.7mm x 5.3mm the Object Calculator says... or does this mean something else?

.... camera wasn't connected at the time... 

If the sensor dimensions are indeed wrong, the computed field of view will be wrong as well. It could possibly be due to the fact that the camera wasn't connected, I don't know for sure, though. I have used APT a long while ago and now I use KStars/EKOS, because I am running my gear from a Raspberry Pi 4.

I would try again with the camera connected.

Also, about your workflow, it seems pretty much what I would do. But, as stated above by Ivor, I would add a step for fine focusing. Plate solving can work also if the focus isn't perfect, though.

Another tip: you don't need to wait for precious clear sky nights to do some experiments with your gear. That's what the cloudy nights are for. Set up your mount inside the house, roughly pointing at Polaris general direction. Load an image of an object that you already took (better if a single frame, unstretched - as it would come out of the camera during a "live" session) and ask APT to plate solve it and to slew to it. Watch where the mount is pointing to at the end of the slew. Does it make sense as to where the object could really be at that time of the day in which you did this? Then you can immediately have a general idea if things are going in the right direction.

If you haven't added one, yet, I would also add a planetarium software to your mix - it makes things a lot easier when it comes to find what objects are available, when, and where in the sky, from your particular location. They also integrate with the software you use for imaging and plate solving, so you can see on the planetarium where your telescope is pointing. There are a lot of free ones. One I particularly liked while I was using Windows and APT was Cartes du Ciel. Now I use KStars, with the Pi.

Last thing: if you want a really nice online resource to check for objects availability from your location and also to check framing and field of view with different cameras/lenses combination, take a look here:

- Telescopius.com

- Telescopius.com - Telescope Simulator

With the second link you can input your imaging focal length and your camera sensor size. Then you search for objects and you'll immediately be able to see how big - or how small - they will look in your image. If you register an account with the website, you can save all your cameras and lenses, your location and your preferences. I really find it invaluable, because I can also filter the target list by object type, magnitude, minimum altitude, degrees away from the Moon, etc.

Once you install the planetarium, you can have it display your saved field of views and tour the sky and immediately see how the available objects will fit in your frames, as well.

[gaz81]

Just spent some time in the garage doing cable tidy work been meaning to for ages and exactly above. 
 

Linked everything up... pretended I was pointing north... then skewed to NGC7000. Loaded a failed image from the night Totally missed 7000 and did a blind solve. 
 

The sync’d the cordinates back to the scope. 
 

After that did another Goto to 7000... scope did a meridian flip and repointed itself. 
 

So the inside the garage rest seemed to work 🙂

Only thing was the sensor size issue, it didn’t change when the camera was connected and powered up. So guess will see what happens when I try for real. 
 

And couple of pics of my cable management attempt. 
 

So again, thank you everyone!! 

[blinky]

On 14/10/2020 at 17:45, gaz81 said:

After another not so successful night... well, apart from getting quicker at polar alignment etc..

Had some issues with star alignment... think that was more due to using a UHC filer that made the stars harder to spot?

Got focused up with the old mask....

Then slewed to my target, the North American Nebula.

Did a test exposure.. couldn't see much, but thought it was probably due to needing more stacked exposures (still learning 🙂  )

So, set APT off... came back later and did a quick stack to see... and nothing 😞   

Anyway, was a work night so packed up for the night.

Then remembered people on here talking about sites you can upload the image and it will tell you where it is in the sky, so gave it a go.

The rectangle was where my scope was pointed... and the nebula was above... oh well.  Least it was cool to see these amazing sites and what they can do!

 

How do you upload to this website?

[gaz81]

Used this

https://nova.astrometry.net/upload

Then after it solved there was a link that took me to that site (bottom right of the page after you click results)

[blinky]

ah, never knew that, never used to get that option

 

[George Gearless]

On 14/10/2020 at 22:07, edarter said:

I waited far too long to ditch the handset and start with platesolving. Once you've tried it though you never go back! Lifes too short lol

Couldn't agree more. 

Since I've discovered the usefulness of Stellarmates platesolver, my photography has taken a giant leap forward. Takes 30-60 seconds depending on how many iterations it has to go through and autocorrect the mount. But once it's done, it's always smack dead center. Every single time. It's a wonderful invention.

[blinky]

How do you zoom in and out on that site?

[gaz81]

15 minutes ago, blinky said:

How do you zoom in and out on that site?

In the screen shot?

just with you mouse wheel, or two finger scroll

[blinky]

perfect!

[gilesco]

The tool is great, I use it on my works in progress

http://www.worldwidetelescope.org/webclient/?wtml=http%3a%2f%2fworldwidetelescope.org%2fwwtweb%2fShowImage.aspx%3freverseparity%3dFalse%26scale%3d2.207991%26name%3dcombine-RGB-image-mod-lpc-cbg-csc-St.jpg%26imageurl%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fnova.astrometry.net%2fimage%2f9340892%26credits%3dAstrometry.net%2bUser%2b(All%2bRights%2bReserved)%26creditsUrl%3d%26ra%3d39.184698%26dec%3d62.720308%26x%3d3263.4%26y%3d3461.7%26rotation%3d-138.40%26thumb%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fnova.astrometry.net%2fimage%2f9340894%26wtml%3dtrue

The image cross-fade is great too, gives you real satisfaction to know what you're imaging is what is supposed to be there.

Edited October 15, 2020 by gilesco

[edarter]

On 14/10/2020 at 22:44, gaz81 said:

I just finished doing the set up in APT... such a good tutorial.

Thank you!

Also did the extra bit that been added to APT since (ASTAP)

Tested some older images, solved in a few seconds... just need a clear night to try it while APT is actually hooked up to my AZ GTI (EQ).  APT can already talk to it, so should be good there. 

So in effect now....

1. Polar align

2. GoTo a target via the APT object list

3. Take an image

4. Plate solve

5. Sync those coordinates back to the mount? 

6. GoTo again and repeat the sync

7. Then... image away

 

Does that about cover the process?

Are you guiding? If so I would also suggest you get sharp cap and polar align using that. Way more accurate than using the polar scope and after a couple of goes it's very quick and easy to do. I get 'excellent' polar alignment as rated by sharp cap every time within 2-3 minutes. 

Even if not guiding and using a dslr you can still polar align this way, there are tutorials on the Web and drivers for Canon dslrs to do it. 

[gaz81]

Yeah, I use PHD2 🙂

The polar align tool is excellent. 

[gaz81]

Come on sky....