Setting up mount and computer for guiding, software etc.

[Rustang]

I was going to try PHD2 for the guiding part which I have since downloaded. I thought I could just continue with the handset aswell but it seems not! 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Rustang

[blinky]

Ok, all a bit confusing when you first get started!  The cable you have goes from computer to the HEQ5, the guide camera also connects to your computer, as I assume your main imaging camera does (though maybe not if you are using a DLSR). 

Anyway, you want to install ASCOM Platform from here: https://github.com/ASCOMInitiative/ASCOMPlatform/releases/download/v6.5Release/ASCOMPlatform65.exe

I would then install EQMod, which allows things to talk to the mount, get it here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/eq-mod/files/latest/download

You already have PHD2 installed, one you have installed those 2 apps above, you should then be able to connect PHD2 to your mount, in the connection box you should see something like EQDir/Mod EQ5/6 - should just jump out at you!

After that, I would suggest as others have, getting something to allow you to select an object and slew the mount to it.  I use SGPro but there is free software, NINA which seems to be getting good reviews at the moment - https://nighttime-imaging.eu/  out of interest, what is your imaging camera?  I would suggest getting NINA setup, then get plate solving setup - its amazing when it works!  You select your object, the mount slews to it, takes an image, then the plate solving software works out where exactly your scope is pointing and issues commands to slew the mount to the exact target you selected.  Im not sure as I dont use NINA, what Plate Solving software is compatible so I would have a look round this site and ask some questions about NINA once you have it installed.

[blinky]

If you dont want to go the whole hog of getting something like NINA, I suppose you could get a planetarium like Stellarium: https://stellarium.org/  and connect that to the mount, you then click a target in there and it will slew the mount, you would then start PHD2 autoguiding and away you go.  But..... I would honestly say, get something like NINA or SGPro or whatever as it makes everything so much easier.  I can now in SGPro, select a target by typing in its name, it then slews the mount, plate solves so its bang on target, starts PHD2 guiding then starts the imaging camera with the sequence of exposures I have set.  I can then go to bed and let it run!

[Rustang]

2 minutes ago, blinky said:

Ok, all a bit confusing when you first get started!  The cable you have goes from computer to the HEQ5, the guide camera also connects to your computer, as I assume your main imaging camera does (though maybe not if you are using a DLSR). 

Anyway, you want to install ASCOM Platform from here: https://github.com/ASCOMInitiative/ASCOMPlatform/releases/download/v6.5Release/ASCOMPlatform65.exe

I would then install EQMod, which allows things to talk to the mount, get it here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/eq-mod/files/latest/download

You already have PHD2 installed, one you have installed those 2 apps above, you should then be able to connect PHD2 to your mount, in the connection box you should see something like EQDir/Mod EQ5/6 - should just jump out at you!

After that, I would suggest as others have, getting something to allow you to select an object and slew the mount to it.  I use SGPro but there is free software, NINA which seems to be getting good reviews at the moment - https://nighttime-imaging.eu/  out of interest, what is your imaging camera?  I would suggest getting NINA setup, then get plate solving setup - its amazing when it works!  You select your object, the mount slews to it, takes an image, then the plate solving software works out where exactly your scope is pointing and issues commands to slew the mount to the exact target you selected.  Im not sure as I dont use NINA, what Plate Solving software is compatible so I would have a look round this site and ask some questions about NINA once you have it installed.

OK cool, that all seems a little clearer, I don't help myself by my mind getting all upset and confused when it all seems a bit to much. Yes I'm using a DSLR, astro modded Canon 650D

[Rustang]

1 minute ago, blinky said:

If you dont want to go the whole hog of getting something like NINA, I suppose you could get a planetarium like Stellarium: https://stellarium.org/  and connect that to the mount, you then click a target in there and it will slew the mount, you would then start PHD2 autoguiding and away you go.  But..... I would honestly say, get something like NINA or SGPro or whatever as it makes everything so much easier.  I can now in SGPro, select a target by typing in its name, it then slews the mount, plate solves so its bang on target, starts PHD2 guiding then starts the imaging camera with the sequence of exposures I have set.  I can then go to bed and let it run!

That would be lovely especially during the summer, I'd rather be sleeping! 😊

[blinky]

Ok, a long time sine I've used a DSLR for imaging, I think you can now connect them to apps like SGPro or NINA and get plate solving working, when I used a DSLR you couldnt do that

[Rustang]

If anyone else has anything to add that would be awesome but I will take a look at everything in the week, digest it all and give it ago. 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

It just seems to me you are doing this in the wrong logical order .

From my understanding most people would start with the imaging software and get that working.  In my case (and I think many others) I did not have any guiding and if polar aligned properly could take 3 minute subs easily without significant star elongation. I did have a guide camera and PHD 2 loaded but I just felt I had enough on learning how to image. The guiding came later but by then I already had all the software installed for the imaging that was needed and with this software I did not need the handset at all, I used the software to tell mount where to go.

I think the penny has dropped now for me, is it that because you do not have Stellarium, or just a sequence program (NINA, APT, SG ro etc) running that you need the handset to slew to a target and so are reluctant to lose the handset ?

Steve

Edited August 17, 2020 by teoria_del_big_bang

[blinky]

Seriously, its not difficult to do - get the software all installed and see if you can connect to the cameras and mount, then have a hunt and get plate solving setup, then you are good to go!  Dont suppose you are anywhere near Edinburgh?  If you were I could pop over and help you out

[Rustang]

Just now, blinky said:

Ok, a long time sine I've used a DSLR for imaging, I think you can now connect them to apps like SGPro or NINA and get plate solving working, when I used a DSLR you couldnt do that

Even plate solving is alein to me so add it to the list of scary new things to look into! 😁

[Rustang]

1 minute ago, blinky said:

Seriously, its not difficult to do - get the software all installed and see if you can connect to the cameras and mount, then have a hunt and get plate solving setup, then you are good to go!  Dont suppose you are anywhere near Edinburgh?  If you were I could pop over and help you out

That would be awesome but sadly not, I'm down in Hertfordshire! 

[blinky]

Just now, Rustang said:

Even plate solving is alein to me so add it to the list of scary new things to look into! 😁

Its pretty easy nowadays to get it all setup, and watching it work is like magic!  You will get loads of help on here as well but just get everything installed and connected first

[Rustang]

5 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

It just seems to me you are doing this in the wrong logical order .

From my understanding most people would start with the imaging software and get that working.  In my case (and I think many others) I did not have any guiding and if polar aligned properly could take 3 minute subs easily without significant star elongation. I did have a guide camera and PHD 2 loaded but I just felt I had enough on learning how to image. The guiding came later but by then I already had all the software installed for the imaging that was needed and with this software I did not need the handset at all, I used the software to tell mount where to go.

I think the penny has dropped now for me, is it that because you do not have Stellarium running that you need the handset to slew to a target and so are reluctant to lose the handset ?

Steve

Yes I'm reluctant because I'm used to using the hand set now. So I've been imaging for just over a year, 2min subs are just about ok, from a test the other night 3 min subs not so much. So I'm familiar with imaging even if still not great so the next stage is guiding. I reaserched what camera and scope which I've got so now I'm trying to get the software etc set up to give it ago. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Rustang

[Rustang]

2 minutes ago, blinky said:

Its pretty easy nowadays to get it all setup, and watching it work is like magic!  You will get loads of help on here as well but just get everything installed and connected first

I really appreciate all the help, I'm just stuck at the setting up bit! 👍

[teoria_del_big_bang]

It can seem scary at first and it does take a few nights where probably you get no useable data before things start to drop into place, same for us all believe me.

So how do you image then at moment. I must admit I probably wouldn't know how to do this without the sequence software (it make things so much easier). Are you just using the DSLR manually ?

Steve

[Rustang]

Just now, teoria_del_big_bang said:

It can seem scary at first and it does take a few nights where probably you get no useable data before things start to drop into place, same for us all believe me.

So how do you image then at moment. I must admit I probably wouldn't know how to do this without the sequence software (it make things so much easier). Are you just using the DSLR manually ?

Steve

DSLR with one of those fancy plug in timer/control things, I think it begins with a V what ever its called! 🤔. Once I've Pola aligned, 2 star aligned and set the scope off to target via the mount  hand controller, I then let the camera plug in timer thingy do its work because it has everything set on it, exposure time, interval time, number of exposures etc so I can sort of lie out on a deck chair and get some kind of sleep while the scope does its thing. I've got that sorted now which is why it's a little scary and I'm hesitant to add any complexity to it but I need longer subs and would like better images! 😊

[Viktiste]

18 minutes ago, Rustang said:

Sorry guys, its probably me not explaining things properly. All I'm after doing is getting my set up ready to guide, I have the mount, guide cam and guide scope, and have downloaded the PHD2 software, its just putting it all together properly to read each other through what every cables i need. As said, the mount is the older HEQ5 Pro with the SynScan hand set. It seems the drivers that Ive downloaded for the guide cam have allowed PHD2 to read the camera but that is as far as I have got. I'm still unsure what cables need to go where to get everything up and running. If I have to lose the Synscan hand controller then so be it. Below are the 3 different cables I have and there's one more but that's the one the goes from the guide camera to the computer. So what devices/sockets do they need to go to and from!? Is PHD2 going to be useable with what equipment I have? 

First cable: Plugs from the guide camera to your HEQ5 mount 'AutoGuider' socket. I don't think you need this.

Second cable: If you want to loose the handset and control the mount from a PC only. Plugs into HEQ5 'Hand controller' socket (and a PC)

Third cable: If you want to use both the handset and a PC. Plugs into the bottom of your handset (and a PC).  And if the PC is old and still have a RS232 connection, loose the USB crossover. Newer PC's dont have RS232 anymore and the USB crossover is needed.

 

Also you might find this guide helpful: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/354148-howto-set-up-win10-from-scratch-to-control-mount-with-stellarium/

I suggest you get to the point where you can slew your mount with Stellarium. Then look at what software you want to use for imaging, I also recommend NINA. But there are plenty of other choices. Then look at guiding with PHD2.

Took me a LOT more than one night to figure all this out.

 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Advice from @Viktiste sounds good to me, I must admit I had no experience of using handset and computer together.

But to be honest I think eventually loading some sort of sequence software and Stellarium would really make things simpler and is the way to go. I really think you are doing it the hard way and think you are managing really well to image this way.

And honestly when all this is set up (you can do it all with free software - I personally recommend APT which is free but I found it so good I paid for it as payment is sort of voluntary but even then it is so cheap)  I think you will find it so much easier, especially getting the framing correct and same over a number of nights.

To just use PHD2 you will I think need to load the ASCOM platform which is the harder bit, the other software is a doddle when that is loaded. And with this software and some extra files downloaded when you platesolve you will wonder how you ever did anything without it 🙂 .

But hopefully if you want to just use PHD2  then the cable setup suggested will get you going.

Good luck I hope you can get it working.

Steve

 

 

[Rustang]

11 minutes ago, Viktiste said:

First cable: Plugs from the guide camera to your HEQ5 mount 'AutoGuider' socket. I don't think you need this.

Second cable: If you want to loose the handset and control the mount from a PC only. Plugs into HEQ5 'Hand controller' socket (and a PC)

Third cable: If you want to use both the handset and a PC. Plugs into the bottom of your handset (and a PC).  And if the PC is old and still have a RS232 connection, loose the USB crossover. Newer PC's dont have RS232 anymore and the USB crossover is needed.

 

Also you might find this guide helpful: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/354148-howto-set-up-win10-from-scratch-to-control-mount-with-stellarium/

I suggest you get to the point where you can slew your mount with Stellarium. Then look at what software you want to use for imaging, I also recommend NINA. But there are plenty of other choices. Then look at guiding with PHD2.

Took me a LOT more than one night to figure all this out.

 

Thanks, much appreciated 👍

[Rustang]

2 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Advice from @Viktiste sounds good to me, I must admit I had no experience of using handset and computer together.

But to be honest I think eventually loading some sort of sequence software and Stellarium would really make things simpler and is the way to go. I really think you are doing it the hard way and think you are managing really well to image this way.

And honestly when all this is set up (you can do it all with free software - I personally recommend APT which is free but I found it so good I paid for it as payment is sort of voluntary but even then it is so cheap)  I think you will find it so much easier, especially getting the framing correct and same over a number of nights.

To just use PHD2 you will I think need to load the ASCOM platform which is the harder bit, the other software is a doddle when that is loaded. And with this software and some extra files downloaded when you platesolve you will wonder how you ever did anything without it 🙂 .

But hopefully if you want to just use PHD2  then the cable setup suggested will get you going.

Good luck I hope you can get it working.

Steve

 

 

Thanks mate, I will digest everything mentioned and see how I get on. The biggest problem will be losing the handcontroller, it will be like taking away a child's safety blanket! but onwards and upwards... very slowly that is! 😉

[Viktiste]

Loosing the handset was one of my best moments in this hobby!  I don't miss it 😉  But I still use it for visual observing.

[Viktiste]

Also if f you choose the 3rd cable (with the handset) there is some setting in the handset (PC direct I think, but not sure) that you need to enter to be able to control the mount from a PC. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Viktiste

[teoria_del_big_bang]

4 minutes ago, Rustang said:

Thanks mate, I will digest everything mentioned and see how I get on. The biggest problem will be losing the handcontroller, it will be like taking away a child's safety blanket! but onwards and upwards... very slowly that is! 😉

I do understand butas I have said I think after a few nights when it all starts to work you will never look back. But if you do don't try to get it all working at once. Load all the software by all means but perhaps just use the top cable plugged direct from mount to guidecam to start with while you get the other stuff going. Okay so everyone says it is not as good as PHD2 but I don't think is is much different and certainly far far better than no guiding. 

Steve

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Another cloudy night so may as well get some kip but keep the thread going with your progress and between us you will get there, whichever way you want to go, that is your choice as more than one way to do this, far too many to be honest 🙂 

Good night all.

Steve

[Rustang]

6 hours ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Another cloudy night so may as well get some kip but keep the thread going with your progress and between us you will get there, whichever way you want to go, that is your choice as more than one way to do this, far too many to be honest 🙂 

Good night all.

Steve

Cheers Steve, will do 👍