Setting up mount and computer for guiding, software etc.

[Rustang]

6 hours ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

I do understand butas I have said I think after a few nights when it all starts to work you will never look back. But if you do don't try to get it all working at once. Load all the software by all means but perhaps just use the top cable plugged direct from mount to guidecam to start with while you get the other stuff going. Okay so everyone says it is not as good as PHD2 but I don't think is is much different and certainly far far better than no guiding. 

Steve

Could you just clarify what you mean by this and how that works to guide!? 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

The top cable in those 3 pictures is a ST-4 cable that comes with most guide cameras and there is a socket in back of camera and also on mount and the cable just goes directly between the two, so does not affect your handset. 

The middle cable is to go between computer and mount and you would not use the handset but need software on computer (in addition to PHD2) to select target and slew mount, also can operate camera (IF camera can be operated via computer and usb cable). This is the method I know most about a it is the only one I have used.

The bottom two cables linked together is to connect computer to hand set. Not sure what else you need to do regarding software or Firmware updates to use this, it may be easy it may not, if I can find out I will let you know.

So you have all three choices.

But to get you guiding it may be easier (for now) to use the st-4 cable as the handset just stays as it is. Again I never used st-4 guiding but as far as I am aware it is very simple you connect the cable from camera direct to ST-4 port on mount with the top cable and in PHD2 select "On Camera" for the mount. I think that it how it works, not 100% as I never used it.

. If that works I just thought it was a simple way to get you guiding.

Then you can look at downloading something like NINA, or APT (my favorite) and start imaging using that. It is fully automatic so at the start of a session when scope is on target you simply set up how many exposures you want and how long the exposures are and leave the software to it. But I guess you need a DSLR or astro camera capable of being connected to computer via usb.  You can continue to use the st-4 cable but you can later look at using ASCOM to do the job and remove the ST-4 cable.

What is your imaging camera ?

Steve

 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

This thread here might be worth a read:

what-is-st-4-guiding-and-what-is-ascom-guiding

In that thread is a link to a great little guide:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qkRRBqBpHHsKHBXioOE6-upq8R4WK5i0/view

One section of that guide says the following:-

"ST4 Cable or ASCOM Pulse Guiding?
As you may be aware, there are two typical methods of sending guide corrections to the mount. Some
cameras may be connected directly to the mount by means of an ST4 cable, so guiding corrections are
sent by means of electronic signals to the mount controller board. Alternatively, guide corrections may
be sent through software via the mount driver (typically the ASCOM platform and drivers on a Windows
PC).
Which is ‘better’? The reality is that neither method is intrinsically better than the other. There is no
performance advantage in using an ST4 cable over using ASCOM pulse guiding, as the time taken for
corrections to reach the mount is minuscule compared to the duration of even a 1 second guiding
exposure.
If you are using an auto guider which calculates its own guiding corrections on the camera, then using
ST4 may make things simpler as you can do away with one set of drivers on the laptop (or not use a
laptop at all if capturing images directly on a DSLR memory card). We are talking about PHD guiding here
though, so I’ll assume that isn't the case.

- If you wish to use an ST4 cable with PHD guiding, you should select ‘On Camera’ from the PHD ‘Mount’
menu to tell it to send guide commands via the camera’s ST4 port.
- If you wish to use ASCOM pulse guiding you would select ‘ASCOM’ from the mount menu, and choose
the appropriate mount from the dialog when you press the ‘connect to mount’ icon on the PHD tool bar.
- For non-ASCOM mounts supported by PHD, you’d choose the appropriate mount from the menu
instead."

Steve

[Rustang]

Thanks guys, I may try that simple option to start with then and going forward take baby steps into the other way with more software extra as it does sound like its a great way to control everything evenn if a little daunting. Thanks again 👍

[Rustang]

My time is limited at the moment but Im slowly getting my head around some of it. I have another quick question, how do I focus the guide camera on the guide scope Ive got as it doesn't look like it has a focuser!? Plus is there a way to view the camera during the day to see how to focus it and check everythings is ok, does it need different software for this!? 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Rustang

[teoria_del_big_bang]

ASICAP

ASICAP

But you need some adjustment to be able to focus.

Crisp focus is not needed for a guidescope but needs to be near focus so you will need to be able to adjust the distance between guidescope and camera.

Steve

[Rustang]

6 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

ASICAP

ASICAP

But you need some adjustment to be able to focus.

Crisp focus is not needed for a guidescope but needs to be near focus so you will need to be able to adjust the distance between guidescope and camera.

Steve

So the software focuses the guide scope camera?, so its not like focusing my normal imaging camera then? Where is the movement back and forth coming from to obtain focus!!!? if that makes sense!?

Edited August 19, 2020 by Rustang

[teoria_del_big_bang]

The software is just a stand alone application to run the camera so you can see images during daylight as well as night time.

You need a focuser on the guidecam to bring the guide camera to focus.

Steve

[fozzybear]

20 minutes ago, Rustang said:

My time is limited at the moment but Im slowly getting my head around some of it. I have another quick question, how do I focus the guide camera on the guide scope Ive got as it doesn't look like it has a focuser!? Plus is there a way to view the camera during the day to see how to focus it and check everythings is ok, does it need different software for this!? 

what brand of finderscope is this? as the camera to me needs to be closer to the body of the finderscope  or is it a guidescope?

[Rustang]

Its an Altair 60mm scope, i guess i need a focuser for the scope then, i should have known!

[fozzybear]

2 minutes ago, Rustang said:

Its an Altair 60mm scope, i guess i need a focuser for the scope then, i should have known!

is it a guidescope or a finderscope can we see a picture of it in it's entirety would help

[Rustang]

8 minutes ago, fozzybear said:

is it a guidescope or a finderscope can we see a picture of it in it's entirety would help

Guide scope I believe! I do love  to continue embarrassing myself!

Edited August 19, 2020 by Rustang

[fozzybear]

12 minutes ago, Rustang said:

Guide scope I believe! I love you to contiue embarrassing myself!

have a look at this it might help

 

[fozzybear]

ok looking around and you already have attached a focuser to the finder scope  so just some adjustments needed

https://www.altairastro.com/precision-camera-focuser-for-auto-guiding-with-altair-60mm--80mm-raci-finder-scope-86-p.asp

[Rustang]

lol, yeah just found that myself, thats what you get for buying, putting to one side for a while then forgetting what you brought!! I can be an idoit sometimes! So I unscrew the end to focus then lock with the ring im guessing. I'm going to go hide away while my red cheeks go down!! ☺️

Edited August 19, 2020 by Rustang

[fozzybear]

1 minute ago, Rustang said:

lol, yeah just found that myself, thats what you get for buying, putting to one side for a while then forgetting what you brought!! I can be an idoit sometimes! So I unscrew the end to focus then lock with the ring im guessing

👍

[Rustang]

I cant be trusted with Posh stuff, especially if i dont know what ive got!

[teoria_del_big_bang]

2 minutes ago, Rustang said:

lol, yeah just found that myself, thats what you get for buying, putting to one side for a while then forgetting what you brought!! I can be an idoit sometimes! So I unscrew the end to focus then lock with the ring im guessing

Honestly, do not be worried about about any post or question we have all been there (and to some extent I still am). We are all willing to help 🙂 

Steve

[fozzybear]

4 minutes ago, Rustang said:

lol, yeah just found that myself, thats what you get for buying, putting to one side for a while then forgetting what you brought!! I can be an idoit sometimes! So I unscrew the end to focus then lock with the ring im guessing. I'm going to go hide away while my red cheeks go down!! ☺️

we have all got the same tee-shirt. I've got a drawer full of stuff (electrical components for what I can't remember either)

[Rustang]

Cheers guys, i think im there to a point with the connections, I have set up the simple way (ST4) and it seems PHD sees the camera ok so that's one step forward!

 

[fozzybear]

As Steve quoted, focus the camera now during the day to get a descent image then adjust at night as you should not be far off then, rather than faffing around at night for ages.

 

[Rustang]

Just now, fozzybear said:

As Steve quoted, focus the camera now during the day to get a descent image then adjust at night as you should not be far off then, rather than faffing around at night for ages.

 

Just need to get that software for day time viewing working then hopefully going to get that sorted 👍

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Great. Just need to see you can get focus now. I always found it easier to check focus works okay during daylight. Focus on starts at almost infinite distance will not be the same but should not be too much different. In my experience I have needed about 10 mm maximum more focus in the outward direction to focus on stars as opposed to distant land based objects.

steve

[Rustang]

11 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Great. Just need to see you can get focus now. I always found it easier to check focus works okay during daylight. Focus on starts at almost infinite distance will not be the same but should not be too much different. In my experience I have needed about 10 mm maximum more focus in the outward direction to focus on stars as opposed to distant land based objects.

steve

I have the driver installed, i can see it in my devices on the computer but whats the software that brings up the video to view through that driver for the day time viewing!?

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Rustang

[fozzybear]

have you downloaded ASIStudio the complete suite? that will enable you to capture images?

https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/software-drivers