Second Scope Advice

[mikeyjm26]

On 02/05/2020 at 10:34, johninderby said:

Just replaced the finder bracket with a low profile one (as I had a spare one) and found a 1.25” eyepiece extenstion in the spares box gto replace the big extension provided with the scope.

I use an adjustable height drummers throne (stool) for most of my observing.

Newbie question, does this have 2 finders?

[John]

3 minutes ago, mikeyjm26 said:

Newbie question, does this have 2 finders?

Yes - an optical 9x50mm right angle, correct image finder and a zero magnification Rigel Quikfinder. A very effective combination

 

[johninderby]

Just now, mikeyjm26 said:

Newbie question, does this have 2 finders?

Yes it does. It’s common practice to use a non magnifying finder such as a Rigel Quikfinder or Telrad along with a right angle optical finder. The non magnifying  finder or reflex finder often incorrectly referred to as a red dot finder although it actualy has circles not a dot is usefull to get you in the area of what you are looking for then the RACI finder is used to zero in on the target.

[mikeyjm26]

4 hours ago, johninderby said:

Yes it does. It’s common practice to use a non magnifying finder such as a Rigel Quikfinder or Telrad along with a right angle optical finder. The non magnifying  finder or reflex finder often incorrectly referred to as a red dot finder although it actualy has circles not a dot is usefull to get you in the area of what you are looking for then the RACI finder is used to zero in on the target.

 

4 hours ago, John said:

Yes - an optical 9x50mm right angle, correct image finder and a zero magnification Rigel Quikfinder. A very effective combination

 

I understand the principal but not how you would put it into practise. My eye is not bad but even seeing stars in the sky with the naked eye is tough. How do you know where to point it with the Rigel? I am probably asking this in the wrong thread and sub forum. Sorry.

[John]

If you cannot see any stars with the naked eye in the sky then I agree that the zero power finders would be difficult to use.

 

[Louis D]

46 minutes ago, John said:

If you cannot see any stars with the naked eye in the sky then I agree that the zero power finders would be difficult to use.

 

Ugh.  They're unit power finders.  They have 1x, not 0x, power.  The magnify everything by 1x.  If they were 0x magnifiers, then they would demagnify or compress everything to a point like a massive focal reducer and be of little use.  Sorry @John, it's just a pet peeve of mine when these are referred to as zero power finders. 🤓

[John]

25 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Ugh.  They're unit power finders.  They have 1x, not 0x, power.  The magnify everything by 1x.  If they were 0x magnifiers, then they would demagnify or compress everything to a point like a massive focal reducer and be of little use.  Sorry @John, it's just a pet peeve of mine when these are referred to as zero power finders. 🤓

Well I'm glad you got that off your chest Louis. I stand corrected of course 

 

[Stardaze]

@johninderby which concenter have you, the 1.25" or2"? I really don't like the play in the focus tube of the Cheshire! Guess the 1.25" is a bit more flexible, just wondering what the fit is like, given my criticism of the Cheshire. I'm going to order one of these, but... what are the TS Optics lasers like? Half the price of a Hotech. I know, scrimping, but struggling with £100 for a laser on top of a concenter.

Should get the replacement alt bearing tomorrow, fingers crossed. Still the end of the month for the 9x50 though.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Stardaze

[johninderby]

I have the 1.25” Concenter but use it with the Hotech 2” self centring adapter that comes with my Hotech laser

Not used any of the TS lasers.Will have to take a look at them. With the cheaper lasers though they will work if you collimate them first. Just google “collimating a laser collimator” and you find loads of info.

One big advantage of the Hotech laser is has a crosshair beam not a simple dot.So much easier to use as the legs of the crosshair let you know where the centre of the beam is. 

[Stardaze]

2 minutes ago, johninderby said:

I have the 1.25” Concenter but use it with the Hotech 2” self centring adapter that comes with my Hotech laser

Not used any of the TS lasers.Will have to take a look at them. With the cheaper lasers though they will work if you collimate them first. Just google “collimating a laser collimator” and you find loads of info.

One big advantage of the Hotech laser is has a crosshair beam not a simple dot.So much easier to use as the legs of the crosshair let you know where the centre of the beam is. 

I'll have a look at collimating a laser. The TS ones are €49 so mid-priced, was thinking of staying away from the £20 versions. I'll read up tomorrow.

[johninderby]

Had a look at the TS lasers and the good one that they do is about the same price as the Hotech.

Telescope House has a reasonable laser on special at the moment. Looks like a good buy. 

https://www.telescopehouse.com/new-revelation-deluxe-laser-collimator-1-25.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzfaO9N-s6QIVEevtCh0W2ASjEAQYASABEgIGsPD_BwE

One thing you will find with the cheaper lasers is that the dot they project isn’t that round.

Edited May 11, 2020 by johninderby

[Ricochet]

If you get a laser, I would recommend just getting a cheap one with an angled face and a 2x barlow so that you can use the barlowed laser technique to collimate the primary.

These days I have reverted to just using a cheshire for the secondary and a short cheshire with the crosshairs removed for the primary. 

[John]

6 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

If you get a laser, I would recommend just getting a cheap one with an angled face and a 2x barlow so that you can use the barlowed laser technique to collimate the primary.

These days I have reverted to just using a cheshire for the secondary and a short cheshire with the crosshairs removed for the primary. 

My feelings exactly on both points

[Stardaze]

16 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Had a look at the TS lasers and the good one that they do is about the same price as the Hotech.

Telescope House has a reasonable laser on special at the moment. Looks like a good buy. 

https://www.telescopehouse.com/new-revelation-deluxe-laser-collimator-1-25.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzfaO9N-s6QIVEevtCh0W2ASjEAQYASABEgIGsPD_BwE

One thing you will find with the cheaper lasers is that the dot they project isn’t that round.

 

2 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

If you get a laser, I would recommend just getting a cheap one with an angled face and a 2x barlow so that you can use the barlowed laser technique to collimate the primary.

These days I have reverted to just using a cheshire for the secondary and a short cheshire with the crosshairs removed for the primary. 

Not sure about throwing good money after bad, maybe just wait and buy the hotech next month. 
I’ll look into the barlowed laser @Ricochet technique too. Do you tighten the Cheshire in the focus drawer? Mine seems to want to tilt to the left and the outer circle of the secondary drifts with it? 

[Stardaze]

3 minutes ago, John said:

My feelings exactly on both points

Are you a Cheshire fan too then John? Not too fussy about absolutes, or it just works for you? Good to hear differing views.

[johninderby]

Had a Cheshire eyepiece but chucked it when I got the Concenter. 

[Ricochet]

7 hours ago, Stardaze said:

Do you tighten the Cheshire in the focus drawer? Mine seems to want to tilt to the left and the outer circle of the secondary drifts with it? 

Yes, tighten the clamp on any collimation tool in exactly the same way that you would do on an eyepiece. I would also always orient the 1.25" to 2" adaptor in the same direction to allow for any offset. (But offset is very minor, it's a lot more important to make sure things aren't being tilted. )

7 hours ago, johninderby said:

Had a Cheshire eyepiece but chucked it when I got the Concenter. 

Those do look good. Getting one is on my list but I've not got around to it yet. 

[johninderby]

Second the advice about orienting the Cheshire as you would an eyepiece. 

The Concenter just makes the job soooooo easy. If only it were a bit cheaper. 🤔

[Stardaze]

I’m going to order a concentre today anyhow. 
How do you mean orient the adaptor? I saw one video where it was recommended to draw it up to roughly the focus point of an eyepiece?

Edited May 12, 2020 by Stardaze

[Ricochet]

1 minute ago, Stardaze said:

I’m going to order a concentre today anyhow. 
How do you mean orient the adaptor?

If you have the adaptor in the focuser so that the locking screw is on the right, always have it on the right. Don't have it sometimes on the left or on top for example. 

[Stardaze]

I’ve got the screw upwards at the moment, so you mean turn it around 180 degrees?

 

[Ricochet]

7 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

I’ve got the screw upwards at the moment, so you mean turn it around 180 degrees?

 

No, any direction is fine, I meant just to choose a direction and stick with it. It shouldn't make much (if any) difference at all, so it is not a comment worth worrying over. 

[Stardaze]

8 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

No, any direction is fine, I meant just to choose a direction and stick with it. It shouldn't make much (if any) difference at all, so it is not a comment worth worrying over. 

Do you draw it all the way to the bottom of the focuser?

[Ricochet]

36 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

Do you draw it all the way to the bottom of the focuser?

I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean wind the focuser in? You want the focuser approximately in the same position as when you are using an eyepiece. 

[Stardaze]

Getting in a kufuffle with collimating, thought I had it sussed in my own mind. The star test seemed ok last week and keep thinking that the focus unit and secondary won't have been shipped badly out but the primary when I look down the centre is off to the one side which suggests the primary isn't lined up with the focus unit? It doesn't look so bad with a basic cap but much worse with the Cheshire. Just placed the order for a concentre, see how long that takes.