Why does everything I try go wrong?

[alan potts]

I seem to be a none stop source of trouble for all you members and I am just about sick of asking for help.

I was trying to get the spacing correct for my APO and a .79 reducer, which did not give good shaped stars at the corners using the prescribed 55mm but appear a bit better at 55.2. However I must ask what the hell has happened to this image even though I had no intent of actually trying to make something out of it as there was very thin cloud, I have not used Flats and Darks as I need to take new ones. The image appears to have melted on the righthand side but seems OK on the left

Can anyone tell me what I have done?

Camera 071mc.

Think it's about time to give this lark up🙂.

Alan.

[Xsubmariner]

Hi Alan,

I note your camera is the ZWO 071mc, I assume it is not the “pro” variant. I had one of these first variant cameras and it suffered moisture (icing) problems which showed up much like your picture, some cameras didn’t show the problem while others did. 

After a lot of owner complaints the problem disappeared with the release of the “pro” variant. Original owners were offered to upgrade by exchange at additional cost. I was lucky to negotiate an exchange for my nearly new camera. It might be worth checking with the camera distributor. 

[vlaiv]

Ice or dew on sensor / camera?

[alan potts]

1 hour ago, Xsubmariner said:

Hi Alan,

I note your camera is the ZWO 071mc, I assume it is not the “pro” variant. I had one of these first variant cameras and it suffered moisture (icing) problems which showed up much like your picture, some cameras didn’t show the problem while others did. 

After a lot of owner complaints the problem disappeared with the release of the “pro” variant. Original owners were offered to upgrade by exchange at additional cost. I was lucky to negotiate an exchange for my nearly new camera. It might be worth checking with the camera distributor. 

 

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

Ice or dew on sensor / camera?

Really guy's!!!  I think I had that before, it is damp and I had slowed the cooling down  after that one time ( the first time I used it) I don't believe I had it since. It is the Pro version and it has an anti dew feature which I must check it still ticked as the camera has been off scope.

It is only very recently I have taken a step to minus 10 cooling, all other time I was just using minus 5.  Weather has been a bit odd of late and I am sure Vlaiv will understand completely, sometimes we have to start cooling from much higher temperatures than we would see in England come darkness and then it can drop away fairly fast.

Well thank you both of you and back to the drawing board, at least the stars look reasonable and will have to do in view of no more spacers. I may well try and slow the cooling even more than I have set.

Thanks,

Alan

[symmetal]

My 071 suffered from bad icing when I first got it, at any set temperature below zero. I did open up the camera and replaced the desiccant tablets though I could have dried the existing ones in the oven/microwave.

As I found out the desiccant tablets will release their moisture at room temperature if the surrounding humidity is lower than they are, to save opening the camera remove the access screw plug on the side of the camera under the black plastic disc. Just gently lever the disc off to reveal the screw. Then place the camera in an air tight food container with a bag of fresh desiccant crystals, like those sold for use in drawers or small cupboards. It'll take several days to work, but the internal tablets should dry out to match the humidity of the air around the large bag. I keep my 071 like this when it's not in use (pretty much forever at the moment ) and just replace the plug in the side of the camera to make it airtight (hopefully) again when you take it out to use it. Haven't had icing problems since. I keep a humidity meter in the food box and it reads about 20% all the time.

Zwo used to supply a little container that screwed onto the access hole in the camera and contained two tablets. This wasn't sufficient to dry out the tablets inside and Zwo don't seem to supply it with the 071 anyway.

Alan

[alan potts]

47 minutes ago, symmetal said:

My 071 suffered from bad icing when I first got it, at any set temperature below zero. I did open up the camera and replaced the desiccant tablets though I could have dried the existing ones in the oven/microwave.

As I found out the desiccant tablets will release their moisture at room temperature if the surrounding humidity is lower than they are, to save opening the camera remove the access screw plug on the side of the camera under the black plastic disc. Just gently lever the disc off to reveal the screw. Then place the camera in an air tight food container with a bag of fresh desiccant crystals, like those sold for use in drawers or small cupboards. It'll take several days to work, but the internal tablets should dry out to match the humidity of the air around the large bag. I keep my 071 like this when it's not in use (pretty much forever at the moment ) and just replace the plug in the side of the camera to make it airtight (hopefully) again when you take it out to use it. Haven't had icing problems since. I keep a humidity meter in the food box and it reads about 20% all the time.

Zwo used to supply a little container that screwed onto the access hole in the camera and contained two tablets. This wasn't sufficient to dry out the tablets inside and Zwo don't seem to supply it with the 071 anyway.

Alan

It could just be me not having the Anti Dew on, I have not un-checked it but when your a novice like me it is easy to undo things and not realise. It is the first time I have had this since the first time out back in July and it has been wet of late albeit with clear nights. I will try to reduce the cool down and maybe go back to minus 5 again, I had no problems there or at least that I saw.

I can't say I can see any difference anyway, zero, -5, -10, all appear much the same to me. I don't know if it was my imagination but the camera , for what ever reason did seem to get to minus 10 rather quickly these last 2 nights nights.. I have since run the subs from the night before and they are also similar but nowhere near as bad.

Hey, who know Alan, maybe one day I will get right, even if it was an accident🙂.

Alan

[symmetal]

5 minutes ago, alan potts said:

It could just be me not having the Anti Dew on, I have not un-checked it but when your a novice like me it is easy to undo things and not realise. It is the first time I have had this since the first time out back in July and it has been wet of late albeit with clear nights. I will try to reduce the cool down and maybe go back to minus 5 again, I had no problems there or at least that I saw.

I can't say I can see any difference anyway, zero, -5, -10, all appear much the same to me. I don't know if it was my imagination but the camera , for what ever reason did seem to get to minus 10 rather quickly these last 2 nights nights.. I have since run the subs from the night before and they are also similar but nowhere near as bad.

Hey, who know Alan, maybe one day I will get right, even if it was an accident🙂.

Alan

The anti-dew doesn't stop the sensor icing up, it just stops dew possibly forming on the outside of the camera front glass due to the sensor cooling removing heat from the front glass. Your image effects are too 'in-focus' to be the front window I would think. Dew would cause loss of contrast and large diffraction effects on bright stars. My Atik One often suffers from dew on the rear of the field flattener and internal filter in damp conditions. It doesn't have a heated sensor window.

I never found cooling the camera more slowly helped. If the humidity is  very near the threshold of ice forming it might do. 

It's worth just storing the camera in a box with desiccant as I mentioned even if you don't remove the access plug on the side. Now mine has thoroughly dried out internally, I don't remove it now either. The fact that the internal tablets do get damp implies the camera chamber isn't airtight anyway so spending days in a very dry environment can only help keep the internals from absorbing moisture.

Alan

[alan potts]

50 minutes ago, symmetal said:

The anti-dew doesn't stop the sensor icing up, it just stops dew possibly forming on the outside of the camera front glass due to the sensor cooling removing heat from the front glass. Your image effects are too 'in-focus' to be the front window I would think. Dew would cause loss of contrast and large diffraction effects on bright stars. My Atik One often suffers from dew on the rear of the field flattener and internal filter in damp conditions. It doesn't have a heated sensor window.

I never found cooling the camera more slowly helped. If the humidity is  very near the threshold of ice forming it might do. 

It's worth just storing the camera in a box with desiccant as I mentioned even if you don't remove the access plug on the side. Now mine has thoroughly dried out internally, I don't remove it now either. The fact that the internal tablets do get damp implies the camera chamber isn't airtight anyway so spending days in a very dry environment can only help keep the internals from absorbing moisture.

Alan

Your advice is always sound, I will do that, it's raining at the moment so I guess that's not going to help matters, I always keep them outside too so maybe not a clever idea. I just get fed up of always taking Flats and Darks, which as you pointed out I don't do correctly, will work on that. I will put the camera in the boiler room, it's very dry in there and warm (26c) but not not silly hot.

Alan

[Skyline]

Do you warm the sensor after your imaging session.  I cool my 294MC Pro down to -10c then use the warming aid to raise the temp to 6c before unplugging it.

Nadeem.

[alan potts]

9 minutes ago, Skyline said:

Do you warm the sensor after your imaging session.  I cool my 294MC Pro down to -10c then use the warming aid to raise the temp to 6c before unplugging it.

Nadeem.

Yes I do, I am always aware of the outside temperature and warm it back to about 2-3 degrees from outside, of late that's been plus 12, and minus 5, all in the same week. Start temp the other night was 22c.

Alan

[Sunshine]

The detail you've captured in those wisps of clouds is pretty darn sweet, don't throw in the towel yet my friend, i can see your good work through whatever has obstructed the view.

[symmetal]

33 minutes ago, alan potts said:

Your advice is always sound, I will do that, it's raining at the moment so I guess that's not going to help matters, I always keep them outside too so maybe not a clever idea. I just get fed up of always taking Flats and Darks, which as you pointed out I don't do correctly, will work on that. I will put the camera in the boiler room, it's very dry in there and warm (26c) but not not silly hot.

Alan

You don't need to redo flats if the camera goes back on with the same orientation as it was before. I've only taken one set of flats and darks and the camera is off and on the scope all the time. I always have the long side of the camera image parallel to RA so its orientation is easy to repeat. Platesolving checks the camera angle, but if you don't do that, to get the camera orientation to within 0.5 degrees, swing the scope in RA until the counterweight bar is horizontal, (using a spirit level), then lock the RA clutch. Move the scope in Dec until it's horizontal, (by eye is sufficient as it's not too critical) then hold the spirit level against the base of the camera and rotate the camera until the lettering on the camera rear is parallel to the level hand held spirit level base. You'll need to bend down to see.  That works for all the ZWO cameras I have. The Atik One is easier as it has flat sides to place the spirit level on.

Darks don't need to be redone if the temperature is the same as that used when taking the darks.

You boiler room solution sounds like it should work. It's worth getting some humidity meters, (they're very cheap on Amazon) just to check the humidity in your boiler room is low.

Alan

[R26 oldtimer]

Hi Alan. Is this a single sub or the stacked image? I have seen some checkers artifacts with dss from time to time, which are not present in the individual subs.

[alan potts]

11 hours ago, R26 oldtimer said:

Hi Alan. Is this a single sub or the stacked image? I have seen some checkers artifacts with dss from time to time, which are not present in the individual subs.

I took 14 subs and it was there in all of the ones I checked which was only about 4 but I am sure that was a cross section of what they were all like. It was also on those I checked from the night before, though not as bad.

Alan

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Stick with it Alan, this hobby does throw these kind of problems at us sometimes with regularity but they are all solvable, even though often it doesn't seem that way.

Steve

[alan potts]

21 hours ago, Sunshine said:

The detail you've captured in those wisps of clouds is pretty darn sweet, don't throw in the towel yet my friend, i can see your good work through whatever has obstructed the view.

I just feel that way sometimes, it is just one thing after another. I dare say though most are my fault no matter how much money I throw at the hobby there is always something new to annoy me. I too was fairly pleased with the general data ignoring the melted area.

Alan

[alan potts]

7 hours ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Stick with it Alan, this hobby does throw these kind of problems at us sometimes with regularity but they are all solvable, even though often it doesn't seem that way.

Steve

I just find that this problem is somewhat ironic, a camera designed to work better below zero freezing up by all accounts. I have the camera in the boiler room which is a very dry 25-27 degrees to dry out the insides that people suggested may be damp. What is next I wonder CO poisoning.

Alan