Handling condensation/moisture

[souls33k3r]

Hi All, 

I have a pier in the garden and have recently bought a TG 365 cover. It's a bit OTT purchase because I do not plan om leaving my kit out under the cover all year around, well not even a week... The mount head at least will be under the TG 365 cover for 2 - 3 days at max. The scope will only stay under it during the day and if only it's clear at night but the scope and camera will come back inside after each session leaving the mount out (again if it's clear the next day/night). 

I have a question regarding condensation control. What is a sensible a good solution to keeping the condensation/moisture under the covers? I do not have power socket around the pier so I always have to reel out the power plugs. 

I want the solution to be cost effective and reliable but needs to be practical as well for the above situation. 

I know there is a dog blanket solution but how do I keep it powered on? I don't have a battery to keep it powered. Then there are wardrobe dehumidifiers... Never worked with one so not sure about how good would they be for outside. 

Any suggestions? 

Thanks in advance. 

[bottletopburly]

I run dew straps ticking over in damp weather under my telegizmo cover 

[souls33k3r]

Again like I said, I do not have means to keep it powered on 24/7 unless I put in a weatherproof power socket in there for which I will have to dig. For now will have to work with my situation and running dew straps does not work for me

[Davey-T]

I run my pet blanket off a 22ah golf cart battery, bring it in and charge it everyday ATM but when the daylight hours get longer I have the battery connected to a 25 watt solar panel controlled by an electronic gizmo that switches the blanket on and of at dawn and dusk.

The controller is a prototype that I made a while ago, I have all the bits to make a more sophisticated one but as usual haven't got a roundtuit 😂

Can't see any other option.

Dave

[souls33k3r]

Sounds like I will have to look in to getting a socket put in then... Ugh! When will I stop spending money, is there an end? 🤣

[discardedastro]

I've had a TG365 cover over my newt for a year and a half now.

Definitely seeing some moisture issues - there's some visible rusting on the counterweights, for one. I took my dust cap off the guidescope last night to find a bit of white material I think was some sort of growth but might've been a little spider's nest - took the scope off and cleaned it today and it's all fine. When I took the cap off the main scope the main mirror was sitting with a light coating of dew on it. The electronics all seem entirely fine and after 5 minutes sat in the sun the tube was dry inside and out.

Hadn't considered intermittent heating but it does sound like a good way to help protect against this stuff. I have a plastic cover on the back of my OTA to protect from stray light and I was thinking about putting in some silica gel between the mirror back and the cover, but the heater would be neater. I haven't got permanent power outside just yet (I keep holding off for the "proper" solution of an observatory with a dehumidifier) so a battery/solar would be my only option (unless I go sort that); might have a think about a sensible way to control some heater strips based on measured RH and temperature...

[souls33k3r]

9 minutes ago, discardedastro said:

I've had a TG365 cover over my newt for a year and a half now.

Definitely seeing some moisture issues - there's some visible rusting on the counterweights, for one. I took my dust cap off the guidescope last night to find a bit of white material I think was some sort of growth but might've been a little spider's nest - took the scope off and cleaned it today and it's all fine. When I took the cap off the main scope the main mirror was sitting with a light coating of dew on it. The electronics all seem entirely fine and after 5 minutes sat in the sun the tube was dry inside and out.

Hadn't considered intermittent heating but it does sound like a good way to help protect against this stuff. I have a plastic cover on the back of my OTA to protect from stray light and I was thinking about putting in some silica gel between the mirror back and the cover, but the heater would be neater. I haven't got permanent power outside just yet (I keep holding off for the "proper" solution of an observatory with a dehumidifier) so a battery/solar would be my only option (unless I go sort that); might have a think about a sensible way to control some heater strips based on measured RH and temperature...

Seems like you and I are both in the same boat mate apart from the fact that I do not intend to leave the mount under covers for more than 2 - 3 days if that. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by souls33k3r

[discardedastro]

2 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

Seems like you and I are both in the same boat mate apart from the fact that I do not intend to leave the mount under covers for more than 2 - 3 days if that. 

Yeah - I started out thinking I'd still bring most things indoors frequently but not having to re-do polar alignment, flats, etc every night and having everything cabled up permanently is a helluva drug. Run out 13A, plonk the 12V supply down and plug in two cables, shove the dew shield on and off to the races!

I've got a plan for how I might house the 12V supply and a 230V extension more permanently but haven't gotten to it just yet. From the looks of it, an Arduino/ESP32+BME280 pressure/temp/humidity sensor would do all I need for control of a relay, and then I'd just need a heater. Working out how much heat would be required is a bit of a guessing game...

[Davey-T]

6 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

Seems like you and I are both in the same boat mate apart from the fact that I do not intend to leave the mount under covers for more than 2 - 3 days if that. 

I try to remove my cover on days like today to give it a good airing.

Dave

[Davey-T]

23 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

Sounds like I will have to look in to getting a socket put in then... Ugh! When will I stop spending money, is there an end? 🤣

You've only just started 🤣

Dave

[windjammer]

I keep my rig outside all year round under garden furniture covers - three layers, top one lasts a year before UV kills it.  Being basically large plastic tents dew and condensation are  a problem.  I run 12V from a power unit inside the house, out to the scope with a high current pond cable, like this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/nexans-pond-flex-3183p-3-core-2-5mm-10m-black/5002t

Inside the tent I have mounted power resistors to make a warm air blower:

https://www.rapidonline.com/aluminium-clad

I use four 6.8 ohm 50W resistors in parallel at 12V on heatsinks with a small fan to blow warm air inside the telescope covers.  It generates 80W or so, and takes about 7 amps.  It works a treat.  I have mounted a greenhouse remote RH and temp sensor (ThermoPro TP60s Wireless Thermometer):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ThermoPro-Thermo-hygrometer-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Temperature/dp/B07G2YM494?ref_=s9_apbd_otopr_hd_bw_b5zxl5j&pf_rd_r=M1YG8Y42H5YYTJ6DWBY5&pf_rd_p=dd27ab4b-5b90-57e6-98da-609b80414dcd&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-10&pf_rd_t=BROWSE&pf_rd_i=5496263031

on the scope.  Whenever the RH goes above 70% I turn the heater power on from inside the house.

I would not want 240V mains anywhere near the scope.  If you are OK with that, you could always put a 100W incandescent bulb under the cover - should work....

Simon

 

 

[Bukko]

If you are really going to leave the mount for only a few days, I have found wrapping the pier and mount with a cotton bedsheet is effective at soaking up any moisture that forms. Every few days, take it off and allow fresh air to circulate (And dry the sheet, of course.)

Before I built my observatory, I had a pier and mount fitted to the base and used a sheet with a plastic bin bag over it to keep it safe.

Worked really well.

Long term, of course you need something better but this is pretty much instant.

HTH.

Gordon.

[DaveS]

23 hours ago, souls33k3r said:

Sounds like I will have to look in to getting a socket put in then... Ugh! When will I stop spending money, is there an end? 🤣

Nope.

Never mind telescopes, you know you're done for when you end up buying a new house .

Seriously though, I have a pet-bed plugged into one of the exterior sockets by the telescope. Keeping it on low is usually enough, but like Dave above, on sunny days I open everything up, including the computer cabinet for a good airing.

[souls33k3r]

3 hours ago, windjammer said:

I keep my rig outside all year round under garden furniture covers - three layers, top one lasts a year before UV kills it.  Being basically large plastic tents dew and condensation are  a problem.  I run 12V from a power unit inside the house, out to the scope with a high current pond cable, like this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/nexans-pond-flex-3183p-3-core-2-5mm-10m-black/5002t

Inside the tent I have mounted power resistors to make a warm air blower:

https://www.rapidonline.com/aluminium-clad

I use four 6.8 ohm 50W resistors in parallel at 12V on heatsinks with a small fan to blow warm air inside the telescope covers.  It generates 80W or so, and takes about 7 amps.  It works a treat.  I have mounted a greenhouse remote RH and temp sensor (ThermoPro TP60s Wireless Thermometer):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ThermoPro-Thermo-hygrometer-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Temperature/dp/B07G2YM494?ref_=s9_apbd_otopr_hd_bw_b5zxl5j&pf_rd_r=M1YG8Y42H5YYTJ6DWBY5&pf_rd_p=dd27ab4b-5b90-57e6-98da-609b80414dcd&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-10&pf_rd_t=BROWSE&pf_rd_i=5496263031

on the scope.  Whenever the RH goes above 70% I turn the heater power on from inside the house.

I would not want 240V mains anywhere near the scope.  If you are OK with that, you could always put a 100W incandescent bulb under the cover - should work....

Simon

 

 

Wowzer! You went technical on me super quick mate but I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Please do pardon my ignorance on the electrical side of things, never done any DIY stuff so don't have a clue. 

The cable you mentioned from screw fix looks like a real deal but I guess I'll start a new thread for that subject. 

Cheers matey. 

On 08/02/2020 at 14:19, Davey-T said:

You've only just started 🤣

Dave

Hahahahaha like they say, nothing ever just works out of the box. You need one thing to make the other thing which then makes the other thing work lol

2 hours ago, Bukko said:

If you are really going to leave the mount for only a few days, I have found wrapping the pier and mount with a cotton bedsheet is effective at soaking up any moisture that forms. Every few days, take it off and allow fresh air to circulate (And dry the sheet, of course.)

Before I built my observatory, I had a pier and mount fitted to the base and used a sheet with a plastic bin bag over it to keep it safe.

Worked really well.

Long term, of course you need something better but this is pretty much instant.

HTH.

Gordon.

Cheers for the valuable tip Gordon. I guess I'm really getting concerned about nothing if I only plan on leaving the mount out for 2 nights max. Wrapping it up with a "cotton bed sheet" or a "towel" might be all what I really need then. 

1 hour ago, DaveS said:

Nope.

Never mind telescopes, you know you're done for when you end up buying a new house .

Seriously though, I have a pet-bed plugged into one of the exterior sockets by the telescope. Keeping it on low is usually enough, but like Dave above, on sunny days I open everything up, including the computer cabinet for a good airing.

Cheers Dave. Yeah seems like I might look in to a pet bed at some point but at least out of this thread I understand what I really need is an exterior socket by the telescope for which I'll have to find a long enough cable (at a sensible price) that is going to be weatherproof and rugged so that I can zip tie it to the fence and which will last me forever. Not sure if these pong cables are the ticket item. Will start a new thread for that shortly to find out. 

Cheers for all the helpful suggestions everyone. Much appreciated. 

[Skyline]

On 08/02/2020 at 12:17, souls33k3r said:

Hi All, 

I have a pier in the garden and have recently bought a TG 365 cover. It's a bit OTT purchase because I do not plan om leaving my kit out under the cover all year around, well not even a week... The mount head at least will be under the TG 365 cover for 2 - 3 days at max. The scope will only stay under it during the day and if only it's clear at night but the scope and camera will come back inside after each session leaving the mount out (again if it's clear the next day/night). 

I have a question regarding condensation control. What is a sensible a good solution to keeping the condensation/moisture under the covers? I do not have power socket around the pier so I always have to reel out the power plugs. 

I want the solution to be cost effective and reliable but needs to be practical as well for the above situation. 

I know there is a dog blanket solution but how do I keep it powered on? I don't have a battery to keep it powered. Then there are wardrobe dehumidifiers... Never worked with one so not sure about how good would they be for outside. 

Any suggestions? 

Thanks in advance. 

Ahmed, on my pier I have put a wardrobe dehumidifier tub next to the mount covered with a thick plastic rubble bag and the final cover is a waterproof tarpaulin cover with handles. All held down with a bungee cable.

I have no moisture on my mount or signs of rusting.

However two things get removed after a session,  scope and camera.

I have a small keter storage shed, which inside has a 105ah leisure battery on a trolley, which all my power is supplied from. The only thing I need to do is unreal one cable wrap with all my power connections included inside of it, plugin and off I go.

Welcome to come and see Ahmed.

Nadeem.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Skyline

[souls33k3r]

15 minutes ago, Skyline said:

Ahmed, on my pier I have put a wardrobe dehumidifier tub next to the mount covered with a thick plastic rubble bag and the final cover is a waterproof tarpaulin cover with handles. All held down with a bungee cable.

I have no moisture on my mount or signs of rusting.

However two things get removed after a session,  scope and camera.

I have a small keter storage shed, which inside has a 105ah leisure battery on a trolley, which all my power is supplied from. The only thing I need to do is unreal one cable wrap with all my power connections included inside of it, plugin and off I go.

Welcome to come and see Ahmed.

Nadeem.

Hey Nadeem, how are you keeping buddy? How's the spine now mate? I hope you're on your way to recover. 

Ah yes, these wardrobe dehumidifier business is something a friend of mine mentioned it to me. How long do they last? They're not rechargeable I take it? 

I do plan on coming to see you at some point buddy but only once you've fully recovered. Good to hear from you. 

[Skyline]

They are disposable, I tend to change mine every 10 weeks. Got better mobility now, I'm not allowed to pick up heavy stuff no more, but much better then how I was. Thanks for asking.

I bought 2 boxes of 7 for £15 from amazon.

Nadeem.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Skyline

[WanderingEye]

I now leave mu EQ8 under a 365 TG cover (being replaced but that’s another story..)  also I use a wardrobe dessicant dehumidifier and a SCT dew strap, around the centre of the mount, the dew strap keep the temp 5 degrees above ambient, and I also have a mini Temp, humidity and dew point sensor under there that works with an app on my phone, and the humidity ranges from 40% to 75% but never gone above that. But I guess you already know that humidity is temp driven, lower temp means higher humidity and vice versa, as cold air can’t hold as much moisture as warm air, so you need to keep the temp and dew point as far apart as possible, the dew point is the temp the air needs to cool to before dew forms..at that point humidity will be at 100%... 

The dessicant dehumidifier needs re charging about once every month they just plug in for 12 hours and then they are dried out, but you really need to keep the cover as airtight as possible for these to work well, but they do, especially with the extra heat from the dew strap, which is a 24 watt version, and runs 24/7 and costs 6p a day to run....

link to dehumidifiers

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RECHARGEABLE-DEHUMIDIFIER-TWIN-CARAVAN-OFFICE/dp/B002SHJRMU/ref=asc_df_B002SHJRMU/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=394229415111&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14199983825550019644&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046174&hvtargid=aud-913148707647:pla-847835145544&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=82243841192&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=394229415111&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14199983825550019644&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046174&hvtargid=aud-913148707647:pla-847835145544

link to humidity, temp and dew point sensor

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MZYPO48/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1